jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Julius A Cisek) (12/07/88)
Lately I've been seeing a lot of writing about copying software on the Amiga, and quite frankly I'm getting worried. I just recently sold my Atari ST, and one of the major reasons was because of the amount of pirating that is done on that computer. I'm part of a developers group and we recently switched to programming for the Amiga. Is the pirating problem bad on the Amy? I've seen the ST fizzle slowly as the pirate BBS's added HD's. Has this recent trend snuck into the Amiga community? One that seemed more serious than that? If you know a little about the ST market you wouldn't wonder twice why FTL and other software companies are heavily copy protecting their software. Remember that FTL is coming from the ST market; why should they think things would be different with the Amy users. -- What about technology, computers, .------------------. J.A.Cisek nuclear fusion? I'm terrified of |Spectral Fantasies| jac423@leah.albany.edu radiation, I hate the television. `------------------' jac423@rachel.albany.edu
dillon@POSTGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (12/07/88)
:Lately I've been seeing a lot of writing about copying software on the :Amiga, and quite frankly I'm getting worried. I just recently sold my :Atari ST, and one of the major reasons was because of the amount of :pirating that is done on that computer. I'm part of a developers group :and we recently switched to programming for the Amiga. Is the pirating :problem bad on the Amy? I've seen the ST fizzle slowly as the pirate :BBS's added HD's. Has this recent trend snuck into the Amiga community? :One that seemed more serious than that? There is pirating on every computer. I like to think that, due to the type of the majority of people who bought the original Amiga's and those who are now buying Amiga's, there is more responsibility relative to other microcomputers (IBM-PC's, Apple II's, and, sadly, the new Atari's). It is difficult for professional pirates to gain a base in the Amiga community when their prospective clients are more likely to turn them in. I would be stupid to say that pirating doesn't exist on the Amiga, and I for one do not underestimate pirates as most corporations do. On this group, except for one poor high school student many months ago who didn't realize who he was talking to, there are no professional pirates in active discussion. All of the discussion on copying disks relates to the following points: (1) disk based copyprotection, especially when the disk gets written to, usually destroys the disk and makes the game unusable after a period of time. (2) Honest people are not allowed to make backups, or are so limited that even being allowed a single backup is useless. (3) In many cases it is not possible to put the game on one's HD. (This is BIG). On a related topic, nobody likes a game which takes over the entire machine. Most commercial games do this, which is utterly useless to many of us who want to do other things at the same time. This is a relatively new concept due to the multi-tasking nature of the Amiga. All of this also pertains to commercial software (non-games) but to a lesser extent. Fortunetly, there are many PD, Freeware, and Shareware games out there that serve to give the professional companies notice that their methods of protection and philosophy of machine are outdated. My favorites are: Larn Asteriods Amoeba I have other favorites but I am thinking fast now and haven't the time to remember them (ha). The three above are very well written, do not take over the machine, do not crash the machine, have no copy protection (of course, being PD/Fw/Sw), can be installed on one's HD, and do not make tacit assumptions as to the configuration of the machine. So what you will have here often are a lot of flames directed towards software companies for being idiots in their schemes. -Matt
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo L. Schwab) (12/08/88)
In article <8812062316.AA06717@postgres.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@POSTGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: > Larn > Asteriods > Amoeba > >The three above are very well written, >do not take over the machine, do not crash the machine, have no copy >protection (of course, being PD/Fw/Sw), can be installed on one's >HD, and do not make tacit assumptions as to the configuration of the >machine. > I don't think you deliberately forgot it, but I like to occasionally remind people of a game that got everything right. It was one of the first games ever released for the Amiga. It worked when expansion RAM became prolific. It worked when 1.2 came out. It works on a 68020. It doesn't take over the machine. It multitasks. You can pause it. And it's not copy-protected. When everyone else's games were crashing left and right due to failing to observe the Amiga programming guidelines, this game kept plugging along. It was Mind Walker. An excellent example of How To Do It Right. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) (12/09/88)
One thing that you developers out there can do to help the Amiga game software to become more useful is in the area of awareness. If you are writing a game program for the Amiga, and it is hard-disk- installable, allows multi-tasking, and/or is not copy protected, STATE IT ON THE PACKAGE. If more and more games are clearly marked as having these qualities, and users start to buy your packages more because of it, then the other companies will have to as well to be competitive. Keith Doyle gryphon!keithd
mark@xrtll.UUCP (Mark Vange) (12/13/88)
n writing Don Bluth's Dragon's Lair, we were sorely aware of the need for Hard Drive support on copy protected software. Particularely, for a game such as this which has 6 and some odd Megs of data. Our solution was to include hard drive support in the form of a dedicated partition. This, however, required a great deal of time and money to implement. In addition, because the game (as most Amiga games) takes over the system completely, all interfacing needs to be done at a very low level, and as such needs to be rewritten specifically for each hard drive controller. When we contacted Hard Drive manufacturers, only Comspec gave us the support we needed to produce this feature for the Amiga gaming community. So, it's not all the fault of us "big bad developers." There are many difficulties in implementing these much sought-after features. In addition,this support will often reduce the effectiveness of the copy protection. Mark Vange Visionary Design Technologies o z ?
dillon@POSTGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (12/14/88)
Such a program I would never in my life buy. A separate partition? Going directly to the low level hardware when there are several DOZEN different drivers out there? Instant incompatibility with all new HD products? I would say that it is indeed your fault (the philosophical position, not specific persons). The old time attitude of just being able to take over an entire machine, bypass everything, and go to the hardware directly is not a viable means with todays micros anymore. Forget the damn copy protection. For a properly written package, you will loose more money due to lost clientel (due to the refusal of many people to buy copyprotected programs) than to any pirating. And while many exceptions to my last comment exist today, just as many exist to support it, and the future is obviously moving towards it. :n writing Don Bluth's Dragon's Lair, we were sorely aware of the :need for Hard Drive support on copy protected software. :Particularely, for a game such as this which has 6 and some odd Megs :of data. : :Our solution was to include hard drive support in the form of a :dedicated partition. This, however, required a great deal of time :and money to implement. In addition, because the game (as most :Amiga games) takes over the system completely, all interfacing needs :to be done at a very low level, and as such needs to be rewritten :specifically for each hard drive controller. When we contacted Hard :Drive manufacturers, only Comspec gave us the support we needed to :produce this feature for the Amiga gaming community. : :So, it's not all the fault of us "big bad developers." There are :many difficulties in implementing these much sought-after features. :In addition,this support will often reduce the effectiveness of the :copy protection. : :Mark Vange :Visionary Design Technologies
dillon@POSTGRES.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (12/14/88)
Ooops, forgot to sign that last message:
. o
.
o
.
// O
-Matt\|/
*
"The trajectory failed due to an ill-considered rounding of the
floating point quantity by the compiler"scott@applix.UUCP (Scott Evernden) (12/17/88)
In article <226@xrtll.UUCP> mark@xrtll.UUCP (Mark Vange) writes: > >n writing Don Bluth's Dragon's Lair, we were sorely aware of the >need for Hard Drive support on copy protected software. >Particularely, for a game such as this which has 6 and some odd Megs >of data. > >Our solution was to include hard drive support in the form of a >dedicated partition. Gaghm, yuk, phutoey. This is so ridiculous as to be laughable! You actually require me to backup, reformat, and then restore my hard disk, to play a game?? Get with the program, jack- you should win some kind of award for this kind of horrid logic. > This, however, required a great deal of time >and money to implement. A foolish waste of time and money. My Amiga already has all the software you need to read the hard disk. > In addition, because the game (as most >Amiga games) takes over the system completely, all interfacing needs >to be done at a very low level, and as such needs to be rewritten >specifically for each hard drive controller. Then don't take over the system completely. You obviously haven't been reading this newsgroup lately. > When we contacted Hard >Drive manufacturers, only Comspec gave us the support we needed to >produce this feature for the Amiga gaming community. My god. You really planned to contact _every_ hard drive maker and expect them to help you do this??! >So, it's not all the fault of us "big bad developers." There are >many difficulties in implementing these much sought-after features. No there aren't. You create the difficulties. You can't expect to program the Amiga like it's a ST. ... >Mark Vange >Visionary Design Technologies Thank you for describing your CP strategy to me. I now realize my dollars would be better spent on some other piece of game software. -scott