guest@uscacsc.UUCP (guest) (07/12/87)
With this VERY LONG message I'd like to take you to the underworld of Amiga
computing: the world of Amiga Pirate Boards. A bunch of criminals that are
killing lots of software companies like ours that believe that copy protection
is a hassle to the user, but that given what follows will either introduce
copy protection, or get out of the Amiga software business altogether.
This message will contain name, telephone number, address and picture of one
of these criminals.
A few weeks ago we were tipped by a user that had reached a BBS in Illinois,
named 1984. What we found in there was astonishing. Basically a software
library larger than Go Amigo. Any non-copy protected program for the Amiga
was there. More than 150 titles. Programs that were unreleased (Online! 2.0)
were alreday there. We downloaded a list of the available software, who runs
the BBS, a list of the 10 Best Pirate Boards in the USA, and a picture of
the 1984 SYSOP, Ken Van Kley. All of these are included in this message.
The picture of Mr. Van Kley is uuencoded. uudecode and then use your
favourite IFF reader. As it turns out this is a crime that falls through
the cracks. For the local police it is "too big". For the FBI it is "too
small", they want proof that more than $ 500,000 are involved. These are
fast boards (mostly 2400 bauds) and ARC all the commercial packages (and
their documentation), so it probably takes 5 to 10 minutes for an average
software package. The only option is to sue them. Unfortunately most
current Amiga developers are < 5 people operations and definitely cannot
afford that. Only the few medium-sized companies involved with the Amiga
have a legal department that can try to do something. The list that follows
has the "Top 10 Amiga Pirate Boards". We checked a few of them and they all
have mostly the same 100-200 commercial titles in there. Rumor has it that
there are about 50 Amiga Pirate boards up and running.
But let's give out some names and addresses. The jerk that runs 1984 lives
at:
-1984- BBS
c/o Ken Van Kley
625 Sheridan
Dolton, IL 60419
(312) 841-2401
Feel free to call him and let him know what you think about piracy. Let me
also point out that the "people" that download commercial software are as
criminals as Mr. Van Kley. No question about it. Maybe in another message
I'll post the list of names and addresses (some of these people leave their
"real" names and addresses in there). Some of them are also on Usenet.
Sorry if we remain anonymous, but these guys can be VERY mean.
What follows are three things. A list of the top ten Pirate Boards. The
list of commercial software on 1984 and a picture of Mr. Van Kley. After
seeing this, all this talk about copy protection vs. non-copy protection
seems just like bullshit to me.
------ Unedited downloads
THE TOP TEN IN THE AMIGA PIRATING BOARD WORLD
---------------------------------------------
Darth Vader's Pirate Board List
-------------------------------
April 17,1987
Listed in order of rating
-------------------------
1)The Portal (614) 237-0285
This board runs at 2400 baud and has 64 MEGS of storage space and runs on
BBS-PC!. This board is VERY active and an EXCELLENT board in terms of
files. The messages are very plentiful and they get the new stuff FAST. In
my opinion, the best pirate board in the country.
2)The Black Chamber (714) 646-2723
This board runs at 2400 baud and has 20 MEGS of storage space and runs on
BBS-PC!. This board is active but dying FAST. The files have slackened off
considerably. Although many files are posted each day, they are mostly old
and out of date files. The message base doesn't have anything interesting
going on. Maybe this board will pick up, but from the looks of it probably
not. Oh well, you have to topple sometime.
3)1984 (312) 841-2401
This board set up an Amiga pirate section a few weeks ago and is doing
GREAT! It has 43 MEGS of storage space and runs at 2400 baud on BBS-PC!.
This board gets MANY good files a day and the message base is certainly
active. With a nice sysop, it makes this board complete. The only reason
this board is not #2, is that it lacks as much time as the Black Chamber has
had and subsequently less files BUT the new files are up there FAST. An
excellent board. Give this one a call. It rivals the Black Chamber and
Portal easily.
4)Under*Worlde (614) 451-3622
This board runs at 2400 baud and has 20 MEGS of storage and runs on BBS-PC!.
This board is improving quickly and is fairly active. Give it a call. It
is NOT accessible via PC-Pursuit. The sysop is nice but however it is
slackening off in files a bit. Not too many good uploads a day.
5)Magnolia (205) 854-6407
This board runs at 2400 baud with 60 MEGS of storage and runs on
PC-BBS. This board is active and has many good pirate files. The sysop is
EXTREMELY kind and I like her a lot. However, the files also seem to be
slackening off.
6)San Antonio Amiga (512) 684-3433
This board runs at 1200 baud with 20 MEGS of storage and runs on BBS-PC!.
This is fairly good and has quite a few pirated programs however the pirate
section is a bit inactive. It is NOT accessible via PC-Pursuit.
7)Amiga Connection (301) 445-3777
This board runs at 1200 baud with 20 MEGS of storage and runs on BBS-PC!
This board shows some potential. It has an anarchy section but is hardly
improving. This board is accessible by PC-Pursuit. You now require to
upload Sign.txt found on 1984 and other boards. The board is SLOW in files.
Only about 1 file every 2 days.
8)Amiga Central (801) 943-2011
This board runs at 1200 baud with only 2 drives of storage and runs on
BBS-PC! The board seems to be dying the past week or so. Files are getting
up slowly there and there really is not much anymore. Maybe when he gets 20
MEGS with 2400 baud things will pick up. Who knows?
9)Pulsar (213) 325-8925
This board runs at 2400 baud and has 40 MEGS of storage and runs on P-BBS.
All in all, this board stinks. I am mentioning cause the sysop is taking it
down May 1 and will put it back up late summer (I am sure we will all forget
about it by then). Anyway the files are terrible. They upload one part of
a two part program and don't upload the other part or the files were badly
uploaded and not deleted! The sysop take terrible care of the files. The
message is DEAD. Nothing. We can all forget about this board for a LONG
while.
10)The New Age (213) 559-4948
DON'T call this board. I am mentioning it cause the sysop asked me to tell
everyone that he is DELETING all pirates that try to log on. However he
just got a 150 MEG hard drive (WOW!) and will set up a section shortly.
However until further notice is posted DON't call.
Frankly, this month has been pretty poor in boards.
The only two that are doing well and keeping up the standard (or improving)
are 1984 and Portal. The Black Chamber seems dying as well as others.
Hopefully things will pick up but who knows? Anyway, so call the two most
active boards in the country at the moment, Portal and 1984. PLEASE PLEASE
pass this file around for the sake of the the New Age. Thank you. I will
update this regularly.
Greats of the Pirating World
----------------------------
The Fed - Co-sysop of 1984
Big Brother - Sysop of 1984
Sysop of Portal
The Cure - Co-sysop of Amiga Central
Southern Star - Sysop of Magnolia
Nemesis - Sysop of Underworlde
Data Bandit - Sysop of Amiga Central
Tapper
Losers of the Pirating World
----------------------------
Fast Scan - once sysop of Antartica
Wayne Hoover - sysop of Pulsar
Disk Rigger - co-sysop of Black Chamber
Natural list of files - XX-JUN-87 XX:YY PM
SURGEON.ARC 13-APR-87 61824-B Cracked main file - No word check!
CSBASEBALL.D 13-APR-87 1920-T MUCH BETTER docs for Champ. Baseball!
DEVPACAM.ARC 22-MAY-87 78720-B HiSoft Assemble/editor/debooger...
HACK2DOC.ARC 06-MAY-87 21632-B HACKER II DOCS
BOMBS2.TXT 21-MAY-87 16512-T BIGGER BOMBS-DANGEROUS PLEASE BE CAREFUL
LINT2.0.ARC 05-MAY-87 82944-B Amiga Lint version 2.0
GOLF.ARC 02-MAY-87 331008-B gamestar golf
CLTD-HD.ARC 04-MAY-87 57600-B Cltd fast HD routine for 1.3 beta
JDKFONTS.ARC 30-APR-87 114688-B NON-TRACKERED video fonts - see msg 2011
GRID-NFL.ARC 01-JUN-87 231552-B Gridiron team data disk
M-SCOPE.ARC 05-MAY-87 20864-B Memory utilities
CONVENTIONS. 29-APR-87 10496-T Conventions for ARCing - PLEASE READ
FLIPSIDE.ARC 29-APR-87 68224-B Commercial util. to print sideways
MAFDOCUD.ARC 28-APR-87 13824-B MiAmigaFile IIsgOg DOC Update
ROADWAR2000. 12-JUN-87 299136-B SSI Roadwar 2000 There BEST YET!
HIJINX.ARC 27-APR-87 115584-B Infocom Hollywood Hijinx
DMP101.ARC 27-APR-87 4736-B PatchNEW DeluxeMusic to BREAK it!
DIAL1.ARC 21-MAY-87 18688-B phreaking program, code scanner
CALCRAFT.ARC 30-APR-87 85120-B Spreadsheet (not as good as Analyze!)
DOMINO.ARC 21-APR-87 65024-B Dominoes from Polyglot Software
M18HELL.ARC 21-APR-87 67200-B Golf in Hell courses for Mean 18 - hard
CMON.ARC 21-APR-87 26368-B assembler/de-assembler from Germany
EARL3.ARC 31-MAY-87 172928-B Earl Weaver Baseball (Part 3) *Lucifer*
EARL2.ARC 30-MAY-87 138112-B Part 2 of Earl Weaver Baseball
SOUNDSCAPE.A 14-APR-87 558080-B Soundscape Sequencer 1.4 - arc & tracker
SACREATOR.AR 14-APR-87 4736-B Creates screens for Stoneage
ROCKY.ARC 20-APR-87 15360-B Rocky Horror for DMCS
GIZMOZ2.ARC 26-APR-87 61056-B UPDATE FILES FOR GIZMOZ 2.0
ROUND.ARC 20-APR-87 8832-B Roundabout by Yes DMCS
SPLITTER.ARC 20-APR-87 11648-B Splits and unsplits large files for tran
LIGHT2.ARC 13-APR-87 107648-B Another great Light Circle Demo!
FACC.ARC 02-JUN-87 21760-B Floppy Drive Accelerator-ASDG -Lucifer-
SSPICS.ARC 20-APR-87 9472-B Pictures of ships for Silent Service
DEJAVU.ARC 04-JUN-87 479872-B Deja-Vu w/hints just arc'ed
DP2_DOCS.ARC 13-APR-87 21888-B Deluxe Paint II docs
DME122.ARC 13-APR-87 35968-B Editor... nice
SD.ARC 31-MAY-87 65536-B SuperDisk - nice disk hacker
ZKEYSDOC.ARC 02-JUN-87 41728-B Doc for Zing Keys in Scribble format
FFF.ARC 21-MAY-87 161408-B Flesh For Fantasy - Read Msg #2465
NEWOUT.ARC 02-JUN-87 36864-B Newest version Outline from PAR
CITYDEF.ARC 24-APR-87 10368-B City Defense Demo... smallest ware ever
AREATIMER.AR 12-APR-87 14464-B This adds up your fone bill will you cal
WL.ARC 02-JUN-87 12032-B White Light. copier - fast format nice
BARDSMAP.PIC 11-MAR-87 17920-B Map of Skara Brae... IFF
MINDWALK.DOC 11-MAR-87 7168-T Mind Walker docs
ARENA.DOC 11-MAR-87 14848-T Docs to Arena
GHOST!.ARC 30-MAY-87 290304-B Text/Graphics Adventure - Read Msg 2512
CARD.TXT 20-APR-87 9472-T More info on carding
MIRROR.DOC 20-APR-87 11776-T Docs to the Hacker Mirror Package
PIRATE.BOARD 19-APR-87 4992-T The TOP TEN Pirate boards - READ!!!!
PUZPICS.ARC 18-APR-87 43776-B MagicPicturePuzzle Pics-2 of 2-Not Req'd
LGOP.SOL 17-APR-87 44928-T Leather Goddesses Solution (Detailed!)
M18.ARC 16-MAR-87 133760-B Mean 18 Greatest Golf Courses Vol. 2
REFLECT3.ARC 13-MAR-87 3840-B Reflector3.. copies recent mirror
TEMPLAAN.ARC 13-MAR-87 39936-B Templates for Analyze!
PAWN.TXT 13-MAR-87 33792-B Docs/hints for the Pawn
BARDS.DOC 16-MAR-87 74624-T Complete docs to Bard's Tale
EARL1.ARC 30-MAY-87 62080-B Earl Weaver Baseball - Read Msg 2513
SILENT1.ARC 13-MAR-87 184064-B part 1 of 2 of Silent Service
SILENT2.ARC 13-MAR-87 145152-B part 2 of 2 of Silent Service
TCPLUS.ARC 14-MAR-87 257920-B Text Craft Plus (ok)
EXPLORER.ARC 12-APR-87 37120-B New editor utility
CLITUTOR.ARC 12-APR-87 7296-B Help utility for CLI
UN2.ARC 16-APR-87 252800-B Uninvited - part 2 of 2
AF_CHAR.ARC 24-JUN-87 8832-B Great AlienFires character!!!
EARL4.ARC 31-MAY-87 2304-B Last part of Earl Weaver Baseball
PASCAL.ARC 23-JUN-87 147200-B metacomco pascal (real nice language)
ONLINE2.ARC 24-JUN-87 131072-B Online! 2.0 Main files.
LISP.ARC 14-APR-87 187520-B Cambridge LISP - for seriousrogrammers
NOUT.ARC 22-JUN-87 38144-B Third update of PAR's Outline
MAXICOM3.ARC 22-JUN-87 61056-B Maxicom version 3.0
STONE-C.ARC 22-JUN-87 74496-B C version of StoneAge-fast w/digi sound
EMPIRE.ARC 21-JUN-87 155648-B Empire...the game.
D2D2.0.ARC 21-JUN-87 41088-B Disk to Disk version 2.0.
MAF2SG.ARC 21-JUN-87 101120-B MiAmiga (aka Softwood) File IIsg
KAMP3.ARC 20-JUN-87 3200-B Kampfgruppe. Missing File -- works --
KAMP2.ARC 20-JUN-87 111488-B Kamfgruppe. Part 2 of 3
SILENTRAM.AR 19-JUN-87 17152-B Sets up Silent Service to run from Ram:
CHALLENGE.AR 19-JUN-87 238592-B Challenge, better then Zeycude.
FIIF.ARC 19-JUN-87 25088-B Fruit II Friend, Apple II -> Amiga R/W/F
O_MASTER.ARC 03-JUN-87 64000-B Othello Master - from the New Age
HOLLYFIX.ARC 18-JUN-87 31744-B Fix for corrupt Hollywood Poker picture
ZINGKEYS.ARC 18-JUN-87 164352-B Zingkeys macro utility.
HARDHAT.ARC 17-JUN-87 48512-B Commercial HD backup program
NOUTLINE.ARC 17-JUN-87 36864-B Lates version of outline from PAR
ZKEYDOC.ARC 16-JUN-87 41728-B Complete Docs for Zing Keys!!
D2D16.ARC 16-JUN-87 21632-B DOS 2 DOS v1.6 - does ST disks as well
KAMPF.TXT 16-JUN-87 7424-T Codes for Kampfgruppe
ALIEN.DOCS 16-JUN-87 8064-T Set of docs for Alien Fires
AFCHAR.ARC 16-JUN-87 8832-B Superman type character for AlienFires!
DRAWDAT1.ARC 15-JUN-87 156800-B Aegis Draw data disk - part 1 of 2
DRAWDAT2.ARC 15-JUN-87 109312-B Aegis Draw data disk - part 2 of 2
PROVIDEO.ARC 15-JUN-87 182400-B CGI provideo character generator
TXED.ARC 15-JUN-87 18048-B text editor for amiga. very good.
FTM.ARC 22-MAY-87 136448-B Financial Time Machine stock game.
AC-BASIC.ARC 14-JUN-87 233088-B AmigaBasic Compiler. Better than TrueBas
NEWPRISM.ARC 13-JUN-87 92032-B Prism version 2.0
ALIEN1.ARC 13-JUN-87 416512-B Re-upload of Alien Fires. Part 1 of 3.
ALIEN2.ARC 13-JUN-87 337024-B Alien Fires. Part 2 of 3
ALIEN3.ARC 13-JUN-87 252544-B Alien Fires. Part 3 of 3
UN1.ARC 16-APR-87 251904-B Uninvited - Part 1 of 2.
DIGAREDIAL 15-APR-87 256-T Script commands for redialing w/ Diga
HOLLY4.ARC 12-JUN-87 196736-B Hollywood Strip Poker - Part 4
HOLLY3.ARC 12-JUN-87 177024-B Hollywood Strip Poker part 3
HOLLY2.ARC 12-JUN-87 190208-B Part 2 of Hollywood Strip Poker
HOLLY1.ARC 12-JUN-87 150144-B Hollywood Strip Poker pt1-Read msg 2765
BUTCHDOC.ARC 21-MAY-87 8704-B Full documentation for The Butcher
AESOP.ARC 11-JUN-87 315648-B Aesop's Fables - not bad for kids
DIGA.ZOO 30-MAY-87 331776-B Release version of Diga!
DISKPRO.ARC 22-MAY-87 71168-B Compress Decompress prg to save dsk room
SINBAD-D.ARC 10-APR-87 197888-B Sinbad part 4 of 4 disk 2
SKETRM2.ARC 10-APR-87 111744-B sketerm v2.0 NOT BAD!! Macros,REDIAL
BOBACK.ARC 10-APR-87 21376-B Fix for bad file in World Games
MANX34P3.ARC 11-APR-87 7552-B Latest bug fixes for Aztec 3.4a -a must
STARFLEET.DO 10-APR-87 10880-T Starfleet docs
MINDSHAD.SOL 10-APR-87 4864-T Mindshadow solution
BOP.DOC 10-APR-87 26496-T Docs for Balance of Power
GUILD2.ARC 09-JUN-87 468224-B GUILD OF THIEVES - better than THE PAWN
GUILD1.ARC 09-JUN-87 2304-B GUILD OF THIEVES - sequel to THE PAWN
DSK2DSK.ARC 07-MAY-87 39296-B TRANSFER C-64/128 FILE]S TO AMIGA
CALLIG.ARC 07-MAY-87 106880-B Calligrapher font editor - impressive
MDEBUG.ARC 07-MAY-87 21120-B MetaComco Debug Utilities for SeriousPro
FAERY.DOC 09-MAY-87 10624-B complete docs to faery tale
BUREA.DOC 09-MAY-87 9088-T Bureacracy Docs.
GRABBIT.ARC 09-MAY-87 107392-B Grabbit Utilities, WYSIWYG.
DIGIVIEW.ARC 10-MAY-87 124672-B Digi-view software version 2.0.
HOTMISS.ARC 08-JUN-87 50176-B Scramble like game-Hotline Mission
FAERY.DOCS 10-MAY-87 10880-B docs to fairy tale
FATALE.ARC 10-MAY-87 35968-B COMPLETE DOCS & MAP.PIC FAERY TALE ADVEN
BAZBO.ARC 10-MAY-87 11008-B Copy Program from Israel-Commercial-OK
DIMMER!.ARC 08-JUN-87 26240-B Screen Dimmer- Par
FPIC.ARC 10-MAY-87 77568-B another drawing pro.
SWOOPER.ARC 08-JUN-87 217216-B GALAGA TYPE SPACE GAME WITH NICE SOUNDS
ALIENFIRES.D 07-JUN-87 8064-T Short docs to Alien Fires 2199 AD
LUVQUEST.ARC 11-MAY-87 122752-B Love Quest - find your mate
GALILEO.ARC 11-MAY-87 190080-B Galileo - Astronomy program
FDOCMAP.ARC 12-MAY-87 36224-B QUALITY MAP!! AND DOCS FOR FAERY TALE!!!
D2D.DOC 13-MAY-87 6272-T DOCS TO DISK TO DISK
HOLIDAY.ARC 13-MAY-87 140416-B ELECTRONICS ARTS GRAPHICS DISK
NET.ARC 08-JUN-87 65024-B Networking software for Amiga
DIAGNOST.ARC 06-JUN-87 34560-B Amiga Diagnostics-Commercial Release
NEWFF.ARC 02-JUN-87 41728-B Newest version of Fast Fonts
CUSTSCRN.ARC 06-JUN-87 94720-B Custom Screens- Commercial Release
GALILEO.TXT 14-MAY-87 1408-T MOST OF THE CODES FOR GALILEO
DOS2DOS.ARC 14-MAY-87 40832-B IBM <==> Amiga. Not a bad program
MAR2CODE.ARC 14-MAY-87 21376-B Marauder II 1.0c AUTO-Codefinder
KAMP1.ARC 06-JUN-87 81152-B First part of SSI's Kampgruppe
NPRISM.ARC 16-MAY-87 92032-B New Prism Converts Pics when Loaded
LITTLE.TXT 06-JUN-87 3456-T Mini-docs for Little Computer People
SCRIBBLE!.TX 06-JUN-87 4736-B Small help file for Scribble!
INFOTATOR.TX 06-JUN-87 3584-B Infotator needed for Sorcerer
BARDMAPS.ARC 17-MAY-87 26112-B Maps to Bards Tale
BARDMAP2.ARC 17-MAY-87 35840-B Underground maps to Bards Tale
SUPERHUEY.DO 06-JUN-87 8704-B Docs to Superhuey
ATALKPLUS.AR 18-MAY-87 90624-B A-Talk Plus - Term/Tektronix Emulator
BOMBS.TXT 20-MAY-87 11264-T HHOW TRO MAKE LITTLE BOMBS AND M-80'S
SETKEY.ARC 05-JUN-87 54784-B Makes Keymaps. Strings for funkeys must!
157 File(s) listed
begin 644 vankley.uue
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endmwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (07/13/87)
In article <240@uscacsc.UUCP> do.not.reply writes:
<
<With this VERY LONG message I'd like to take you to the underworld of Amiga
<computing: the world of Amiga Pirate Boards.
Thanx for providing some hard data for us to look at. Some comments
follow.
<A few weeks ago we were tipped by a user that had reached a BBS in Illinois,
<named 1984. What we found in there was astonishing. Basically a software
<library larger than Go Amigo. Any non-copy protected program for the Amiga
<was there. More than 150 titles.
I think you're stretching the count a little. There were 157 *FILES*.
Some *titles* stretched across 3 or more files. Some of the stuff was
*not* pirated software, but stuff they could legally pass on. Other
stuff was DMCS files for songs - which carry copyrights, so that them
being publicly available is illegal, but they don't constitute
software titles.
You also forgot to point out that a fair number of the titles were
copy protected. Including some of the EA titles which Mitsu claimed
couldn't be pirated. There was also some "look up the word in the
manual" type stuff.
Anyone interested in an exact rundown for the entire list? I'd be
willing to do it.
<As it turns out this is a crime that falls through
<the cracks. For the local police it is "too big". For the FBI it is "too
<small", they want proof that more than $ 500,000 are involved.
Have you tried contating the state-level police forces? Some states
have a <state> Bureau of Investigation. These kind of thing should be
right up their alley.
<The list that follows has the "Top 10 Amiga Pirate Boards".
I'm rather relieved that the "Top 10 Amiga Pirate Boards" reached
"going away" and "do not call" boards before it got to the end. I'd
figured that there should be at least 20-30 serious pirate boards
around. Then again, this may just reflect the general low level of
interest in the Amiga.
<Feel free to call him and let him know what you think about piracy.
Uh, what you've just recommended is called "harassment." It's as
illegal as stealing software. It's also the kind of things that gets
uucp connections yanked. I mean, you might as well recommend that
people put him in their uucp L.sys file, and then send mail to him at
4am.
Although what you're recommending is done so for a good cause, it's not
a good idea. The government frowns on people taking the law into their
own hands.
<After seeing this, all this talk about copy protection vs. non-copy
<protection seems just like bullshit to me.
Yup. Considering that every form of copy protection I'm familiar with
was used for one or more of the programs in the list, I'd agree that
copy protection was so much bullshit.
<mike
--
But I'll survive, no you won't catch me, Mike Meyer
I'll resist the urge that is tempting me, ucbvax!mwm
I'll avert my eyes, keep you off my knee, mwm@berkeley.edu
But it feels so good when you talk to me. mwm@ucbjade.BITNETmjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (07/13/87)
Keywords: Re: Amiga Software Piracy (names, addresses, numbers and pictures) guest@uscacsc.UUCP (guest) (and with good reason, too) writes: > What follows are three things. A list of the top ten Pirate Boards. The > list of commercial software on 1984 and a picture of Mr. Van Kley. After > seeing this, all this talk about copy protection vs. non-copy protection > seems just like bullshit to me. I'm interested in hearing how some of the software developers feel after seeing this. Some of the software on that list comes from people here on the net -- Infinity Software, Felsina Software, and ASDG, to name a few. I have a few points I'd like to make: 1) All copy protection schemes can be broken. I noticed that Silent Service was there -- wasn't that copy protected so well that the original didn't work? I'll put myself in the position of a commercial software developer for a moment. I am now the president of MegaWare, Ltd. My entire operation is < 5 people. Developing some far-out copy protection scheme will cost me a lot of money, and they're going to pirate my software just the same. Why should I copy protect something if I stand to lose even more money from it? Dropping out of the Amiga software market won't help me...there are pirates for every computer. Dropping out of the market entirely doesn't help me...then I make no income at all. Perhaps RMS had it right in the first place. Maybe I don't want to make an income from my software, but produce software for the benefit of other software in return. 2) I didn't see either the Lattice or the Manx compiler in that list. Perhaps that's because they're unusable without the documentation, and the documentation is much too difficult to duplicate. That's the reason why Borland publishes the Turbo Pascal manual as a small paperbound book -- It's damn hard to duplicate it in that form (won't fit in the sheet feeder), and using TP is pretty difficult without it. Of course, not every application is unusable without the manual. 3) Too bad we don't all have Digi-Views...I'd like to see what some of the faces behind the message headers look like. --M -- Mike Portuesi / Carnegie-Mellon University Computer Science Department ARPA: mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu UUCP: {backbone-site}!spice.cs.cmu.edu!mjp BITNET: rainwalker@drycas (a uVax-1 run by CMU Computer Club...tons o' fun) "Paradise is exactly like where you are right now...only much, much better" --Laurie Anderson, "Lanugage is a Virus"
spencer@eris.UUCP (07/14/87)
In article <1234@spice.cs.cmu.edu> mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: > >I'm interested in hearing how some of the software developers feel >after seeing this. Some of the software on that list comes from >people here on the net -- Infinity Software, Felsina Software, and >ASDG, to name a few. I have a few points I'd like to make: > Well to be honest I was somewhat shocked by the list, but I kind of expected it. I have lots of friends who just "like" to pirate software. They don't do it to rip off people, they just feel that they have completed something. I have the same tendancy. I will go the the newstand and see the new issue of Byte, not finding anything good in the issue I will still buy it. I just want to have ALL of the issues. I think this is the same thing with pirates. Kind of like baseball cards. So Galileo is out there for free, I don't know that alot of people who get it from there :'( would have gone out and bought our program anyway. We didn't loose much money and there is the possibility that someone will hear about our program that wouldn't have otherwise. Of course, Mike (powered by M & M's) Smithwick is also on this net, he wrote the program, I don't know how he feels... What I really feel is a shame is that FACC is there already. I have seen it in too many homes already of people who didn't purchase it. I have been really happy with it (I have four disk drives on my 2000). What really struck most strongly was on the back of the FACC disk box it says "This disk is not copy protected. ASDG has served the Amiga community well (remember the ASDG Recoverable Ram Disk); please don't pirate our software." Boy that line was better than any copy protection. I just kept remembering that stupid $10 that I ment to send in for that RRD that I never ended up doing. Boy, I haven't even let people SEE my FACC disk, let alone copy it. I sure wish that Infinity could afford to ship programs with NO protection, at least our new DeskTop Publishing program isn't protected. >3) Too bad we don't all have Digi-Views...I'd like to see what some of >the faces behind the message headers look like. > What happened? I recently did a "Bay Area" posting of the photo that Arthur Abrahams took of the BADGE meeting with the ALive and I have only gotten one reply. I want mail from everyone who got my posting or I am going to post it to the entire state! >Mike Portuesi / Carnegie-Mellon University Computer Science Department -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)284-4740 I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)283-5469 Now working for |||||||||||::::... . . BUD-LINX But in no way |||||||||||||||::::.. .. . Officially representing ||||||||||||:::::... .. ....ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e spencer@mica.berkeley.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
dclemans@mntgfx.MENTOR.COM (Dave Clemans) (07/15/87)
Note that you don't have to find these kind of criminals alone. As an example, about a year or a year and a half ago, a group of Atari ST software publishers (representing about 75-80% of the Atari ST market) got together with ADAPSO (?) against a similar pirate BBS. They won their court fight easily. If I remember right, I think a telephone hotline was set up (at ADAPSO?) for people to anonymously report other such boards. I imagine that part of the attraction of attacking pirates as a group is that there is no single individual or entity that other pirates can go after. On other peoples comments about the reliability of copy protection on the Amiga; there has definitely been serious reliability problems. I know of one local dealer that was experiencing a 50-60% "immediate" failure rate on copy-protected Amiga products. (By "immediate" I mean that the customer would find that the program wouldn't work right out of the box because of the copy protection, or would stop working after being loaded once or twice). Since they had a policy of not forcing their customers to not wait a couple of weeks for replacement disks after they've already bought a product, they let customers trade if possible (thus depleting the stores inventory), or if that wasn't possible and they had a good copy of that program with the information to allow it to be copied by a "copy" program, they would rewrite the users master disk.
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (07/16/87)
In article <1234@spice.cs.cmu.edu> mjp@spice.cs.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >Re: Amiga Software Piracy (names, addresses, numbers and pictures) >1) All copy protection schemes can be broken. I noticed that Silent >Service was there -- wasn't that copy protected so well that the >original didn't work? Yeah, the cracked copy probably works better than the original. This is the kind of thing that really rankles my ass. That pirate bbs had a cracked copy of SoundScape 1.4. I've been trying to backup my legit copy for months with everybodies copy routine with no success. I'm scared stiff that I'll be doing something great on it or be planning to demo it to a large crowd just as the disk bytes the dust. And here's some pirates that have it broken. Do I have to go to someone like them to get piece of mind for my compositions? SoundScape is not a game program. If you don't have a MIDI interface, a keyboard and/or synth, and THE MANUAL, it's not very useful. Star Wars copy-protection on a program like that is nothing but pure irritation. >2) I didn't see either the Lattice or the Manx compiler in that list. >Perhaps that's because they're unusable without the documentation, and >the documentation is much too difficult to duplicate. AHA! Developers please note! But at the same time, creating a game program that needs documentation just for the sake of needing documentation makes for some pretty dull games. Fortunately for me, the Amiga is the first computer I've owned (and I've had 8 or 9 in the last 8 years) that is so much more useful in non-game ways, that I NEVER find the time or inclination to play games on it. But really, mightn't it be a good idea to publish a list of the top 10 NON-PIRATE boards? Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd # cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170
mike@ames.arpa (Mike Smithwick) (07/17/87)
[mmmmmm] (a bunch of stuff, Randy, you're too wordy :-) >possibility that someone will hear about our program that wouldn't >have otherwise. Of course, Mike (powered by M & M's) Smithwick is >also on this net, he wrote the program, I don't know how he feels... I think I'll shoot myself. Seriously, I'm wondering if I should be flattered that my program is being pirated. One of the attractions of collecting pirated software is the collector mentality ("Gee, you have only 123 titles, I've got 451!"). Baseball cards are an appropriate analogy. I was very upset when Randy first told me of this place, but I do realize that just because some slimeball pirates a program doesn't mean that he would've bought it in the first place. I'll be the first to admit that I've done my share of bootlegging with the 64 a few years back and the Apple ][. Out of the couple of hundred programs I had, were about 4 or 5 that I would've bought, the rest never interested me whatsoever, except in the way I could boast about the numbers or new titles. One way to discourage this whole business in the first place is to have nothing to do with anyone who pirates stuff. Don't swap new fish disks with them, ignore them on the streets, don't let your kids play with theirs, don't sit on the same side of the church that they do. In general, let them know that they are not welcome. Oh well. . . -- *** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick *** "ever felt like life was a game, and someone gave you the wrong instruction book?" [discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (07/19/87)
That's pretty impressive. I'd like to know how you can possibly support copy protection after seeing all your protected programs cracked and uploaded to a pirate bulletin board before they even come out. It's pretty obvious to me that your protection isn't doing any good. Actually, there are a couple of programs I'd like to download. The one to unprotect DMCS (so I don't have to worry about my key disk giving out) sounds pretty useful. (Yes, I know I can upgrade to the non copy-protected version for another 20 bucks, but it galls me to pay $20 to remove something that wasn't there in the first place. I regard DMCS as a utility, not a game, and as such it shouldn't be protected. Oh well, I know you won't agree with me, and everyone already has their own opinion on this subject already (my mind's made up... don't bother me with facts... I'm sure your mind is too). This is my one and only copy protection posting. Perhaps Commodore can do something, or get the cops to do something. Perhaps you can sue them. It worked with the KKK. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!seismo!soma!uhnix1!sugar!peter (I said, NO PHOTOS!)
gary@eddie.MIT.EDU (Gary Samad) (07/24/87)
I don't believe that I haven't seen a single response to this pirate bbs listing that said "I'm outraged!" Well, consider this one! I'M OUTRAGED! The appropriate response to copy protected software is "Don't buy it." NOT "Because they didn't trust me, I'm going to steal their product!" Pirate bbs are an outrage! I hope these guys are sued and shut down! Does anyone know the ADAPSO "software piracy" phone number? Irked, Gary By the way, I'm surprised that noone noticed that many of these files were MANUALS! These guys are actually typing in the manuals!
mreed@leah.Albany.Edu ( Mike Reed) (07/24/87)
I've seen lot's of discussion about how people should just let these
slime run their pirate boards, because the pirate boards are probably
not doing too much damage to sales.
I saw one of my applications on that board's filelist. An application
that just came out, which has good utility, and is easy to use. It
was designed so that one could use it without constantly looking at the
manual.
So now I see my program pirated by some slime, AND the user community
just says, "well, its not damaging OUR sales".
I know now what my next program is going to be. It's going to
unprotect, and subsequently delete, every file on every storage device
attached to the machine it's run on. THEN i'll name it something cute,
like "DPAINT III beta", and upload it to one of those &@_^^#%* boards.
Hack
+
Destroyconklin@msudoc.ee.mich-state.edu (Terry Conklin) (07/27/87)
This marks to date the most offense posting I have ever seen on the net. While software piracy is certainly a problem in search of a solution, this posters crime has LONG SINCE been solved - with jail! A long time ago, there was a theory to the effect "End doesn't justify the means." So I sure as hell wont allow this attempt to 'combat piracy' justify it's _blatant_ illegality! For the a** that put this up, let me clue you in on a few things about the U.S. For one, people are "innocent until proven guilty." And strange as it may seem, one of the reasons that's so is to prevent SLANDER. Publishing someone's name to the net constitute EPIC misuse of the net. You're not kidding it was smart to be "guest," but not because the pirates will get you, anyone with a sense of law is out to get you too! Here's another mystic concept for you. "The accused has a right to know his accuser." That too is prevent slander and self crowned vigilantes. And to prevent every crook from phoning in 'anonymous tips' on someone they aren't happy with. But criminals prefer to be anonymous... But perhaps the lowest thing of all is the inclusion of a photograph. You have NO way of knowing that's legit. It could be a picture of ANYONE, from anywhere. Not only might the pirate board have used someone else's picture, YOU could have used someone else's picture. Pirates aren't stupid! They're NOT going to have THEIR picture up there! You have utterly NO way of gaurenteeing that person's innocence, and you have posted his picture to tens of thousands of sites as a THIEF. Well theives may be, but I am far more concerned with putting a legal rapist like you behind bars. And yet, it seem unimaginable that any honest person would be so flagrant and vile. My guess is that you ARE a pirate, perhaps one of the "losers," trying to get back at other legit boards or pirate friends who shunned you. And now that you've posted these numbers to the net, any that are pirate will do 10 times the distribution they did before! 10 TIMES the damage. Who are you trying to kid?! How many number are people homes? Just stay off the net and let us stick to legal answers to piracy. Terry Conklin ihnp4!msudoc!conklin conklin@cps.msu.edu
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (07/27/87)
In article <451@leah.Albany.Edu> mreed@leah.Albany.Edu ( Mike Reed) writes: > So now I see my program pirated by some slime, AND the user community >just says, "well, its not damaging OUR sales". > > I know now what my next program is going to be. It's going to >unprotect, and subsequently delete, every file on every storage device >attached to the machine it's run on. THEN i'll name it something cute, >like "DPAINT III beta", and upload it to one of those &@_^^#%* boards. Just when I think there is hope for man kind I see a NEANDERTHAL message like the above. "Your dog pissed on my bushes, I'm gonna kill your dog." Wouldn't it be wonderful if the world were that simple again? Anarchy at it's best. Something offends you, you go out and blast it. As the ultra- feminists would say "A red-meat eating macho-male's fantasy realized". The world however isn't that simple anymore. Take for example the following thoughts... FIRST these "pirates" are not raping/killing/mad dog animals. People like to make them out as such, which is dangerous. If one of these people is caught and brought to trial and it turns out he/she is a 16 year old bright computer phreak who was just fooling around... You get what we have over in comp.sys.mac. You should go read it, it's sure to really make your blood boil over. There's an article in there from France trying to drum up support for a CONVICTED "pirate"! They want to raise money etc to appeal his conviction even though they freely admit he is a "pirate". But hey, the guy wasn't doing it to hurt anyone etc etc etc... SECOND these "pirates" provide a "service" that more than a few people value highly, the removal of user traps from software. They actually have people who support them because they're doing something they like. Sort of like how we support the "Contras" because we want a democratic govt down there, even though no one would want to live with a "Contra". The ol' "Sure they may be doing XXX, which I personally don't agree with, but they're also doing YYY which I do appreciate!" I can see the bumper sticker now: "Support your local pirate, the program he breaks may be one you use!" THIRD copyright law is damn tricky from what I understand. Let's try a few "fer instances" and see what you make of them: What if the software on a board raided was purchased by the sysop? What could be done about the sysop of that board? After all it would be the people USING the board that violated the copyright law. What could be done to the downloaders of software from these boards if they already owned legal copies of the software they were downloading? Say they were downloading a DMCS minus the user traps? And even worse, what if the boards were to get "savvy" and post a banner on their BBS saying: "You can only download items off this BBS if you already own a legitimate copy of the software you download. This BBS is run to provide people with a) current revisions of programs b) de-trapped versions of programs. Proceeding beyond this banner means you agree with the terms stated." Sort of like the "All models over the age of 18" or "By my signature I indicate the materials I've ordered will not violate the 'community standards' of my area" clauses that allowed smut pushers to go almost legit. Wouldn't is be a howl to see a software vendor try to skewer a "pirate" for operating a board under the above "shrink wrap license"? :) They might bag the "pirate" only to leave themselves open for lawsuits under their newly invalidated licenses. But enough about the "pirates", back to your stated line of macho-male-ego salve. I think the term "murder" describes what you intend to do with your little program. While the "pirates" may have people willing to stand up and defend some of their actions, I don't know of many people who would stand up and support a "murderer". If all you did was bag a few pirates there would be those who would stand up and say "They drove him over the edge!", but if your program bagged a few "innocent" people you'd become public enemy # 1. How could that happen? After all I'm sure you're asking "But anyone calling that BBS to download that program would HAVE to be a pirate!" THINK! What would a pirate do with such a program? Why more than likely he/she would take it and start uploading it elsewhere, say CI$, GEnie, Usenet, local non- pirate BBSes... I'm sure you get the picture. Or maybe they'll get "smart" and use it to deflect attention from themselves by saying "Hey look! There's a mad dog running loose writing programs that could murder your computer! Let's go get him/her!!" I hope you are willing to face the firing squad/mob if you carry out your plans. Maybe you should cool off and think of a better way to go after these people? And for those that might read all the above and say I'm pro-Pirate. BS, I'm pro-THINKING! I'm anti-NEANDERTHAL thinking. And I'm sure as hell anti-Trojan horse. Scott Turner -- UUCP-stick: stride!l5comp!scotty | If you want to injure my goldfish just make UUCP-auto: scotty@l5comp.UUCP | sure I don't run up a vet bill. GEnie: JST | "The bombs drop in 5 minutes" R. Reagan Disclaimer? I own L5 Computing. Isn't that enough?
sbmueller@watmath.UUCP (07/28/87)
In article <451@leah.Albany.Edu> mreed@leah.Albany.Edu ( Mike Reed) writes: > > I know now what my next program is going to be. It's going to >unprotect, and subsequently delete, every file on every storage device >attached to the machine it's run on. THEN i'll name it something cute, >like "DPAINT III beta", and upload it to one of those &@_^^#%* boards. Warning: wrist-slapping ahead. Disclaimer: I didn't see no smiley, so I assume you mean it. Trojan horses are not a new idea. The MS-DOS world (for once :-) is ahead of us (we?) Amigans. Anybody got a copy of ARC v5.14 for their PC? Suffice it to say that people get more pissed off by having their entire hard disk erased than by any form of copy-protection (except of course if the copy protection involves erasing their hard disk :-). Yeah, sure, you're only gonna upload it to slime boards. Some slime is going to put it on a disk with public domain stuff, and the rest of us will have to deal with it too. Also, despite all the EA bashing, nobody's gonna tell me DPAINT ain't a great program. Is it fair to associate EA with disk trashing? (I mean, when it isn't their fault :-) End of wrist-slap zone. You may now resume your reading. BTW I have opinions on copy protection. I even have some points I believe haven't been mentioned before. I am, however, not going to inflict them on anyone. (Just thot you'd like to know :-) Other irrelevant facts (which I just have to mention): I get all my software from Fred Fish. Thanks Fred. As soon as I start my next work term, Perry and others are getting mail from me. (Yes, with checks in the envelopes) Given quantity of :-)'s in this posting, mayB I shud x-post to rec.humor? Have a nice day. > > Hack > + > Destroy ^^^^^^^ I always thot it was Hack & Slash. APD: ||~ (all purpose disclaimer: Or Not) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Na na na naaa" - The Beatles Amiga (TM?) "Who Ha, Whoha" - FGTH This space // Bizarre/Design "Aah, aah" - Queen currently // Twisted/Fate under \\ // DY/DX "Has anyone seen my marbles?" construction. \// Body/Fisher - SBMUELLER@WATMATH.UUCP Freak --------------------------------------------@-#$--!@#$--$----#$%^&* parity error
mreed@leah.Albany.Edu ( Mike Reed) (07/29/87)
After all those nasty responses... OK OKOKOKOK....I was wrong to
discuss (mention?) writing disk-trashing software to upload to pirate
boards; It was written in the extreme heat and anger caused by realizing
that efforts to make the software easy to use (a very large effort), were
helping those slime. It is a poor idea, etc. , etc.
BUT....THEN I read what someone else posted to the net in
response to my posting. YES, he noted that I was wrong (which was OK),
AND THEN tried to speak of the HELPFUL SERVICES those pirates do, such
as helping to de-bug software before the public has to, and other such
wonderful things. Luckily, I've calmed down about the whole issue.
I think i'll post my next program to pirate boards for beta-
test....
Hack
+
Employ
Michaelscotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (08/02/87)
In article <10@nancy.UUCP> conklin@msudoc.UUCP writes: >But perhaps the lowest thing of all is the inclusion of a photograph. >You have NO way of knowing that's legit. It could be a picture of >ANYONE, from anywhere. Not only might the pirate board have used someone >else's picture, YOU could have used someone else's picture. Pirates >aren't stupid! They're NOT going to have THEIR picture up there! You have >utterly NO way of gaurenteeing that person's innocence, and you have >posted his picture to tens of thousands of sites as a THIEF. If you had taken the time to DL and uudecode the picture attached to that posting you MIGHT have noticed that it isn't real. It's a "composite" picture. Like the picture of "Big Brother" in the recent movie release of 1984. It's made up of bits and pieces from alot of people, but is not the picture of any single person. The symbolism of this picture and that of "Big Brother" is somewhat deep if you think about it. No single "pirate" broke all the software on that board that was posted, a whole bunch of people tossed in a program or two. Much like a bunch of people tossed in a ear or nose etc to the picture. I laughed my head off when I saw that picture. I laughed even harder when I saw your followup posting. Come on guys, how about a little research before we flame on around here? Your thoughts on posting the phone number and then suggesting everyone give the pirate a call are correct. If the poster of that message can be found by the pirate he could be taken to court over his actions. Would be silly to run around trying to bag the pirate only to wind up on the wrong side of the court room yourself. Scott Turner -- UUCP-stick: stride!l5comp!scotty | If you want to injure my goldfish just make UUCP-auto: scotty@l5comp.UUCP | sure I don't run up a vet bill. GEnie: JST | "The bombs drop in 5 minutes" R. Reagan "Pirated software? Just say *NO*!" S. Turner
scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) (08/08/87)
In article <453@leah.Albany.Edu> mreed@leah.Albany.Edu ( Mike Reed) writes: > I think i'll post my next program to pirate boards for beta- >test.... Now there's a thinking idea. You might even keep the pirates away when your product goes commercial by having them like you so much that they "take care of you". However, I think the "hardcore" pirates will see right through that. It'll be "Hey, nothing personal, BUT I'm a pirate. It's what I do ya know?" :) Scott Turner -- UUCP-stick: stride!l5comp!scotty | If you want to injure my goldfish just make UUCP-auto: scotty@l5comp.UUCP | sure I don't run up a vet bill. GEnie: JST | "The bombs drop in 5 minutes" R. Reagan "Pirated software? Just say *NO*!" S. Turner
petersen@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu (12/10/88)
The 8-bit atari computers used the cartrige idea for game distribution. However it was not 100% successful, the main way to beak it was do make a dump of the cartrige onto a disk then run it from there. If the game had to be run from the cartrige address I think I remember some empty ram cartriges that it could be loaded into. (it's been about 5 years since I've seen it done) The only way that the current game machines get away with this kind of copy protection is because they don't have any writeable storage like a general purpose computer would have.
crewman@bucsb.UUCP (Jerry J. Shekhel) (12/16/88)
In article <42600045@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu> petersen@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu writes: > >The 8-bit atari computers used the cartrige idea for game distribution. >However it was not 100% successful, the main way to beak it was do make a >dump of the cartrige onto a disk then run it from there. > Absolutely true. Cartridges are not any better than any of the other protection schemes. In fact I believe there is no foolproof protection scheme. The point is that somewhere in the program there is code which checks for the protection. Disk-based software may have a bit of code that tests for the existence of some unreproducible media element, like an unusual track, etc., before allowing itself to be run. Cartridge-based software often checks that its code cannot be modified (i.e., it is ROM) before continuing. Find that bit of code, patch it out, and you've just cracked your first piece of software. I did this many years ago, almost by accident, on an 8-bit micro. A certain game I liked checked a bad sector on its disk very often, which made an annoying sound. After finding the code that did this and changing one byte on the disk, I made the bril- liant discovery that the game was now easily copiable. Of course, modern game software is much more prudently protected, but I cannot think of an absolutely safe protection method. > >The only way that the current game machines get >away with this kind of copy protection is because they don't have any >writeable storage like a general purpose computer would have. > Absolutely. -- JJS
andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (12/16/88)
In article <2318@bucsb.UUCP> crewman@bucsb.UUCP (Jerry J. Shekhel) writes: >Absolutely true. Cartridges are not any better than any of the other >protection schemes. In fact I believe there is no foolproof protection >scheme. The point is that somewhere in the program there is code which >checks for the protection. Disk-based software may have a bit of code >that tests for the existence of some unreproducible media element, like >an unusual track, etc., before allowing itself to be run. Cartridge-based >software often checks that its code cannot be modified (i.e., it is ROM) >before continuing. Find that bit of code, patch it out, and you've just Way back when I did cartridge games, I hit on a method that would allow a game to run *only* from cartridge (or write protected ram)... All my tests on the static data structures of the game were done using the rotate instructions on the rom. On the 6502, at least, the status flags and carry were set properly, and the data structure was left unmodified. If you ran the game from ram, however, you'd end up with rather strange results, as the game itself changed, depending on your actions. Since, as a media, roms are pretty safe, I didn't feel bad about it at all :-) -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "Possibly this is a new usage of the word 'compatible' with which I was previously unfamiliar" Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
bryan@intvax.UUCP (Jon R Bryan) (12/21/88)
In article <5517@cbmvax.UUCP>, andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: > Way back when I did cartridge games, I hit on a method that would > allow a game to run *only* from cartridge (or write protected ram)... > > All my tests on the static data structures of the game were done using the > rotate instructions on the rom. On the 6502, at least, the status flags and Way back in '83 (those were the days) when I had a VIC-20, I added an expansion board to it. Each of the slots was de-selectable. I had a 16K RAM cartridge (those really _were_ the days!) that I added write-protect switches to. There were also some address switches, I forget. I could turn on the machine with a game cartridge plugged in and disabled, enable the cartridge and copy the contents. Then I'd load the game into the RAM cartridge, flip the write-protect switch, shuffle the addresses (when necessary) and hit the reset button. As I recall, Choplifter gave me a bit of trouble because it even had a latch built into it that used to change its own address (like swapping the two 8K halves). But I still got it to work.