hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) (12/12/88)
In article <12449@cup.portal.com>, Sullivan@cup.portal.com (kevin lee smathers) writes... >Here are some examples of enjoyable games. With all of the programming >expertise that went into DM, please don't tell me that they *couldn't* have >left it unprotected even if they had wanted to: > >Bard's Tale >Moria >Shanghai >Infocom Adventures (all of them) >(Moria is listed above, and is somewhat *more* complex than DM. It is > absurd to claim that programs such as DM can't be made to coexist with > the operating system when something as complex as Moria does, and > doesn't have a paid staff for development.) > Let me add Empire to the above list. A very Amiga-friendly effort that. It multitasks just fine, and you can install it on your hard disk. In the latest AC, there is an article by Randy Linden on the porting of Dragon's Lair to the Amiga. In it he mentions the developers considered adding hard disk support to the game, but rejected the idea because they would have had to write new driver code for each brand of controller! These guys used the WCS on A1000's for their own code; so much for running on an A3000! The point is, fitting Dragon's Lair onto 6 floppies was quite a trick. I have mixed feelings about the bypassing of the operating system in this case. On the one hand, it sure would be nice to load a game like that on my HD, on the other hand the game MAY not have been possible with that feature. *LOW-TEMP-FLAME-ON* What upsets me are the games that clearly could be made to coexist in a multitasking environment. 75% of such games I've seen apparantly have no good reason to take over the system, they just do it for copy protection or for fun. The European games are particularly bad in this regard. I will allow the occasional exception, like Dragon's Lair, but I'm convinced that game developers in general do not consider issues like multi-tasking when it comes to game design. Why should they when the Amiga game market largely consists of stock Amiga 500s? Two reasons that I can see: first, since the A500's may not stay stock forever, the "average" Amiga could change drastically in coming years, and second, us A2000 owners have bigger software budgets, AND WE ALMOST ALWAYS PAY FOR THE SOFTWARE WE USE! *FLAME-OFF* So, what other games besides the ones we've mentioned are good Amiga citizens? Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" uucp:{The World}!ucbvax!hub!hbo
agollum@engr.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) (12/13/88)
In episode <1044@hub.ucsb.edu>, we heard hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) say: > Let me add Empire to the above list. A very Amiga-friendly effort that. >It multitasks just fine, and you can install it on your hard disk. > > So, what other games besides the ones we've mentioned are good Amiga >citizens? _Mean 18_, the Golf game, multitasks just fine. Its course builder does too, though they won't work together for some reason... Minor problem: Neither program provides screen front/back gadgets so you need something like Dmouse to flip screens. _Pioneer Plague_ will run off a RAMdisk or coexist with something like Facc, though I haven't been able to get back to the Workbench screen after starting it up (and it really doesn't like the Dmouse left button- right button combo). Kenneth Herron
smaug@eneevax.UUCP (Kurt Lidl) (12/14/88)
In <2746@ukecc.engr.uky.edu> agollum@engr.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) says: >In episode <1044@hub.ucsb.edu>, we >heard hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) say: >> Let me add Empire to the above list. A very Amiga-friendly effort that. >>It multitasks just fine, and you can install it on your hard disk. >> So, what other games besides the ones we've mentioned are good Amiga >>citizens? >_Mean 18_, the Golf game, multitasks just fine. Its course builder >does too, though they won't work together for some reason... >Minor problem: Neither program provides screen front/back gadgets so >you need something like Dmouse to flip screens. >_Pioneer Plague_ will run off a RAMdisk or coexist with something like >Facc, though I haven't been able to get back to the Workbench screen >after starting it up (and it really doesn't like the Dmouse left button- >right button combo). With the advent of the greatest little utility program in existance (Dmouse!), things are now possible that were not possible before. For example, you can get pseudo-multitasking under Battle Chess...it's just a left-mouse,right-mouse click away... This is a pretty nifty game - it shows off the capabilities of the Amiga for animation pretty well. The sound effects are pretty good also, but some of the characters are really wanting in terms of sound effects. At any rate, the game has an icon for Installtodh0 - a program that copies the program to a dh0:'s root directory. So you say "But I don't have disk named dh0:" - it's all just an assign away. Using: assign dh0: ram: installtodh0 Will give you a playable version of the game from your ram-disk. Please note that this pretty much cripples your machine. WHen I invoke the game, I had ~429K of chip ram available - after running, it varies from 9 to 15K free! Unfortunately, it also puts a lock <?> on the workbench screen - you cannot drag or resize windows and have the action "take". However - your CLI and shells are still active. IN addition, you can pop up a new window/shell with dmouse and it comes up OK. So you could maybe do the old dial-a-BBS in the background when the 1Meg chips come around. I don't think there is enough free Chip Ram to even run vt100 concurrently :-( For those of you who are contemplating buying the game - it has a (single time on startup!) a type in the word type CP scheme. Nothing funny with the floppy - it diskcopy's just fine (well, there is one funny thing - Info reports no USED blocks on the disk - ie an empty disk...). Finally, the game play. Well - you will certainly enjoy (at least *I* did) the individual combat sequences... Granted the program is pretty slow in thinking its moves and it plays a pretty crappy game of chess, but the combat sequence are pretty funny. Some are direct take-offs on Monty Python skits and others on Western movies... (Try knight takes knight and king takes queen) Don't but it for a great game of chess, but rather for the enjoyment of the combat sequences. Kurt Lidl -- ================================================================== == Kurt J. Lidl (smaug@eneevax.umd.edu) (301)454-3184 == == UUCP: [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!smaug == ========"It's after 3am, no point in going to sleep now..."=======
lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips) (12/14/88)
In <2746@ukecc.engr.uky.edu>, agollum@engr.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) writes: > Minor problem: Neither program provides screen front/back gadgets so >you need something like Dmouse to flip screens. > _Pioneer Plague_ will run off a RAMdisk or coexist with something like > Facc, though I haven't been able to get back to the Workbench screen > after starting it up (and it really doesn't like the Dmouse left button- > right button combo). One of the better kept secrets of the Amiga is that <left-Amiga>-M and <left-Amiga>-N will switch screens. -larry -- "Intelligent CPU? I thought you said Intel CPU!" -Anonymous IBM designer- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca or uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips) (12/14/88)
In <1926@eneevax.UUCP>, smaug@eneevax.UUCP (Kurt Lidl) writes: > wanting in terms of sound effects. At any rate, the game has an icon > for Installtodh0 - a program that copies the program to a dh0:'s root > directory. So you say "But I don't have disk named dh0:" - it's all > just an assign away. Using: > > assign dh0: ram: > installtodh0 > > Will give you a playable version of the game from your ram-disk. Please Sounds good on the surface, but imagine a 2090 owner with 1 ST506 drive, partitioned into 1 OFS partiton (DH0:, name forced by CBM) with just enough to boot from, and another FFS partition that has lots of room. Let's also say the user doesn't want it in RAM: Ever try to ASSIGN a name of an existing device somewhere else? Better they should have not made any assumptions, and stuck with the 'normal' way of looking at the volume name, which would most likely be unique, and assignable too. -larry -- "Intelligent CPU? I thought you said Intel CPU!" -Anonymous IBM designer- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca or uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) (12/15/88)
In article <1926@eneevax.UUCP> smaug@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (Kurt Lidl) writes: >game, I had ~429K of chip ram available - after running, it varies from >9 to 15K free! Unfortunately, it also puts a lock <?> on the workbench ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >screen - you cannot drag or resize windows and have the action "take". the "lock" on the workbench is really the lack of chip ram. if there's not enough chip ram to actually slice and dice the windows to save a copy of the window you're moving and recreate the stuff that was hidden underneath and then plop the copy of the moved window on top and re-hide the newly covered stuff, the move simply won't happen. i've also had situations where i couldn't close a window when almost out of chip ram. >================================================================== >== Kurt J. Lidl (smaug@eneevax.umd.edu) (301)454-3184 == >== UUCP: [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!smaug == >========"It's after 3am, no point in going to sleep now..."======= --Scotty
disd@hubcap.UUCP (Gary Heffelfinger) (12/16/88)
From article <2032@van-bc.UUCP>, by lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips): > In <2746@ukecc.engr.uky.edu>, agollum@engr.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) writes: > One of the better kept secrets of the Amiga is that <left-Amiga>-M and > <left-Amiga>-N will switch screens. True, though I seen plenty of programs that deliberately trap that sequence. Guess Dmouse would help out in that case. Gary -- Gary R Heffelfinger - Not speaking for Clemson University disd@hubcap.clemson.edu -- FIX the Holodeck --
darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) (12/17/88)
I just got a copy of Universal Military Simulator from Rainbird
software yesterday (free!). I haven't had time to play it, but
I briefly ran through the manual.
The game is ported from the Atari. So instantly, I assume that it
will be somewhat braindamaged, take over the machine, etc. (since
I have been reading this thread).
HOWEVER !!!,
at the end of the Amiga addendum, there is a blurb that goes something
like this:
Q: Can I do other things while playing UMS?
A: Sure! There are two ways to do this. First is to use the
gadgets on the upper right of the screen (screen depth gads)
to access the workbench. Second, use can use the key sequences
Amiga-N and Amiga-M to move back and forth from the workbench
screen.
This totally surprised me. Glad to see there are people who follow the
rules. (Actually, most of the offenders, are games that try to squeeze
out the last nano-second for faster frame rates - wargames don't usually
fall into this category, although I have seen some that don't use
AmigaDos)
Therefore, since I got the game free and should make a token effort
to push it; all you people who haven't found any decent games to
play while doing real work (ie multitasking), check the game out.
(the back cover shows Atari screens [at least I hope they are, since
I haven't played it yet], so you may want to see it in action at
a store)
Darin Johnson (leadsv!laic!darin@pyramid.pyramid.com)
"If Intelligence were outlawed, only outlaws would have Amigas"blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (12/17/88)
From article <2033@van-bc.UUCP>, by lphillips@lpami.van-bc.UUCP (Larry Phillips): > In <1926@eneevax.UUCP>, smaug@eneevax.UUCP (Kurt Lidl) writes: >> assign dh0: ram: >> installtodh0 >> Will give you a playable version of the game from your ram-disk. > Sounds good on the surface, but imagine a 2090 owner with 1 ST506 drive, > partitioned into 1 OFS partiton (DH0:, name forced by CBM) with just enough > to boot from, and another FFS partition that has lots of room. Let's also > say the user doesn't want it in RAM: Ever try to ASSIGN a name of an > existing device somewhere else? There is an easy way around this. Just name a blank floppy "DH0". A floppy disk with the same name as a mounted volume wil override the assigned volume name. Remember the guy(s) than named his compiler disk "C", and lost the use of all his AmigaDOS commands while the disk was inserted? This can also be used to your advantage. Name each of the disks in your fonts collection "FONTS", then when you pop it in a floppy, it will override the existing Fonts: directory. > Better they should have not made any assumptions, and stuck with the 'normal' > way of looking at the volume name, which would most likely be unique, and > assignable too. That's true, but at least there's a work around. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 Here: utah-cs!esunix!blgardne {ucbvax,allegra,decvax}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne There: uunet!iconsys!caeco!pedro!worsel!blaine "Nobody will ever need more than 64K." "Nobody needs multitasking on a PC."
mark@xrtll.UUCP (Mark Vange) (12/22/88)
In article <1044@hub.ucsb.edu> hbo@sbphy.ucsb.edu (Howard B. Owen) writes: >In article <12449@cup.portal.com>, Sullivan@cup.portal.com (kevin lee smathers) writes... > > In the latest AC, there is an article by Randy Linden on the porting >of Dragon's Lair to the Amiga. In it he mentions the developers considered >adding hard disk support to the game, but rejected the idea because they >would have had to write new driver code for each brand of controller! These >guys used the WCS on A1000's for their own code; so much for running on >an A3000! The point is, fitting Dragon's Lair onto 6 floppies was quite >a trick. I have mixed feelings about the bypassing of the operating system >in this case. On the one hand, it sure would be nice to load a game like >that on my HD, on the other hand the game MAY not have been possible with >that feature. While it is true that the WCS is used on the A1000's, that is only done to allow a greater cross section of the Amiga community to use the software. In reality, the game works with any auto-config memory, and will not use any special memory it doesn't specifically need to execute properly. Because of this, the game should run just fine on an A3000 or any other Amiga-type machine. The by-passign of the operating system was also necessary to achieve the framing rate which allowed to synchronize the audio with the video. While the game is being played, more data is being loaded all the time, as well as on the fly decompression of both audio and video. The code is already so tight, that if the game is played in High Resolution mode (a 320 by 240 picture centered on a high res, interlace screen) there are not enough cycles to play the audio track. Any system overhead would have made the game unplayable. I realize that the take-over of systems might offend some of the Amiga purists out there, but I am certain that we are not alone with our difficulties in co-existing with the system. Mark Vange Visionary Design Technologies
martens@europa.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Martens) (12/23/88)
In article <230@xrtll.UUCP> mark@xrtll.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes: [ lotsa stuff deleted ] > >I realize that the take-over of systems might offend some of the Amiga >purists out there, but I am certain that we are not alone with our >difficulties in co-existing with the system. > The point isn't that it offends me as a purist; the point is that it forces me to dedicate my machine to a game, so I might as well be running on a PC or my old CP/M system. Granted, the Amiga is a very good game machine, but it's not just a game machine. I look forward to memory protection so that you just flat out cannot do this. >Mark Vange >Visionary Design Technologies -- Jeff
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (12/23/88)
In article <230@xrtll.UUCP> mark@xrtll.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes: [regarding dragon's lair] >The by-passign of the operating system was also necessary to achieve the >framing rate which allowed to synchronize the audio with the video. While >the game is being played, more data is being loaded all the time, as well as >on the fly decompression of both audio and video. The code is already so >tight, that if the game is played in High Resolution mode (a 320 by 240 >picture centered on a high res, interlace screen) there are not enough >cycles to play the audio track. Any system overhead would have made the >game unplayable. This is completely bogus. It is possible to totally take over the hardware (and disable multitasking and thus system overhead) without throwing out DOS or being unfriendly in any way. If there isn't enough memory, simply say so, or say that "This program needs 400K and will probably have to be run standalone on 512K machines." The WCS on an Amiga 1000 was used by DL because it represents extra memory. So what if I've got 3 megs of expansion memory? Do they they use it instead? No. To implement copy protection they invent that bogus story and clobber my machine. My money spent on memory is wasted. My money spent on AmigaDOS is wasted. I don't even CARE if they used the WCS, as long as they DON'T use it if my machine has enough memory to get around it! What a bunch of two faced liars. Makes me want to spit. Sean -- *** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet *** Who sometimes never learns. {backbone site|rutgers|uunet}!ukma!sean *** U of K, Lexington Kentucky, USA ..where Christian movies are banned. *** ``My name is father. You killed my die. Prepare to Inigo Montoya.''