davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (David Guntner) (12/22/88)
From article <2854@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu>, by lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee): > But is this how piracy happens? I have bought some software in my time > -- I have never signed a contract, however. I have noticed that some of > the stuff came with notices saying "... if you break this seal ... you > are agreeing to ... terms inside". I think you would have to be pretty > gullible to believe those notices. I never have, nor considered that I > entered into any contract. This is what is known as Shrink-wrap Licensing, and is more-or-less enforceable depending on the laws of the state that you live in. It may well be that whether or not you _consider_ that you have entered into a contract, you have. I'd suggest that you check with a lawer in your state to find out whether or not (and to what degree) a Shrink-wrap Licensing agreement is enforcable. > Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu --Dave -- David Guntner UUCP: {ames, mit-eddie}!killer!davidg INET: davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US "...Different ship, but she's got the right name. Treat --Admiral L. McCoy her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home." "Encounter at Farpoint"
lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) (12/22/88)
From article <6519@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>, by davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (David Guntner): " ... " This is what is known as Shrink-wrap Licensing, and is more-or-less " enforceable depending on the laws of the state that you live in. It may well Oh, is it ever enforceable? If you have any real information that some court in some state held such a license to be binding in the absense of a signature or any verbal agreement, do please post it. I'm sure others would be as interested as I am. Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu
davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (David Guntner) (12/23/88)
From article <2875@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu>, by lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee): > From article <6519@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>, by davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (David Guntner): > " ... > " This is what is known as Shrink-wrap Licensing, and is more-or-less > " enforceable depending on the laws of the state that you live in. It may well > > Oh, is it ever enforceable? If you have any real information that some > court in some state held such a license to be binding in the absense of > a signature or any verbal agreement, do please post it. I'm sure others > would be as interested as I am. That, I'm afraid, is something that I can't give you. :-) I'm not THAT interested in the legal issues, so I don't follow them to that degree. I was mearly (sp?) passing along something that I had read some time ago, and I'll be the first to admit that I could be in error about it. My suggestion that you talk to a lawer about it still stands, however. He/she could do a much better job of giving you the information that you want then I could, at any rate. --Dave -- David Guntner UUCP: {ames, mit-eddie}!killer!davidg INET: davidg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US "...Different ship, but she's got the right name. Treat --Admiral L. McCoy her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home." "Encounter at Farpoint"
ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (01/01/89)
>I hate to break this to all of you "geniuses" but some of us who could have >credit cards choose not to. An astonishing concept really, and yet, it does >happen. I have none and I don't really want any. > >John Munsch Hmmm. A man walks up to you and tells you "I'll let you use my money instead of yours for approximately a month FOR FREE. You can keep your money in your bank drawing interest that goes to you. But if you don't pay me back in a timely fashion, you'll owe me a little extra back for your tardyness." "I'll give you a card that will allow you much more flexibility with how you can access your money. Also, it will allow you to use many services that the providers of will would otherwise not even consider allowing you to use, such as rental cars, motel reservations over the phone. Also, it will allow telephone ordering of goods at a discount when compared to the local merchants." Not being hard of heart, you accept the kind man's offer. You use the cards in a responsible fashion and receive great benefit (such as the time your car breaks down 50 miles from home on a Sunday evening and you have $5 in your pocket and you left your checkbook at home). Yea verily, John has provided us with A Revelation, I truly believe. John, thank you for this insight. I for one will slice up my Visa and Discover Cards, and would suggest that you, Gentle Reader, do likewise. :-> Dave P.S. Paying interest to the card issuer in indeed A Very Foolish Thing, however.
johnm@trsvax.UUCP (01/06/89)
>>I hate to break this to all of you "geniuses" but some of us who could have >>credit cards choose not to. An astonishing concept really, and yet, it does >>happen. I have none and I don't really want any. >> >>John Munsch > >Hmmm. A man walks up to you and tells you "I'll let you use my money instead >of yours for approximately a month FOR FREE. You can keep your money in >your bank drawing interest that goes to you. But if you don't pay me back in >a timely fashion, you'll owe me a little extra back for your tardyness." > [more drivel deleted...] > Yea verily, John has provided us with A Revelation, I truly believe. John, >thank you for this insight. I for one will slice up my Visa and Discover Cards, >and would suggest that you, Gentle Reader, do likewise. :-> > > Dave You are a real champ pal... If richard@gryphon owed me a favor right now I would probably use it JUST so you could be properly flamed for this ASININE posting, unfortunately I'll just have to do it myself. A man walks up to you and says, "I'll give you a chance to order things by mail using a means that the company you are ordering from will almost always screw up. They will double bill you, incorrectly bill you and bill you ages before they ship a damned thing. This will probably only take two or three months to clear up." "Additionally, I'll be kind enough to either: charge interest from the moment of purchase, OR stick you with a yearly charge of $25 for this service. Not enough for you? Well, then I'll throw in the fact that you will typically need more than one card because not everybody will accept just one. That will add to the number of bills arriving in the mail, increase the chances of having a card lost or stolen and add to the amount that you are paying for this marvelous service." "But," you say, "I rarely order by mail and have absolutely no trouble getting either reservations or car rentals without it. Maybe some other dumb cluck does but I never have." I suggest in the future "Dave" that you read what I post. Go ahead, try it. Right at the top of this posting is what I already said. The jist of it is, "I don't have a credit card, nor do I want one. There are probably others who feel as I do and therefore the idea of only distributing software by modems to credit card holders is a dumb idea." There now. That wasn't so hard was it? I didn't suggest that you cut your cards in half or in fact that anyone who now uses credit cards stop. Only that I don't. John Munsch
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (01/09/89)
In article <254300027@trsvax> johnm@trsvax.UUCP writes: > >>>I hate to break this to all of you "geniuses" but some of us who could have >>>credit cards choose not to. An astonishing concept really, and yet, it does >>>happen. I have none and I don't really want any. >>> >>>John Munsch >> >>Hmmm. A man walks up to you and tells you "I'll let you use my money instead >>of yours for approximately a month FOR FREE. You can keep your money in >>your bank drawing interest that goes to you. But if you don't pay me back in >>a timely fashion, you'll owe me a little extra back for your tardyness." >> >> >> Dave > >You are a real champ pal... If richard@gryphon owed me a favor right now I >would probably use it JUST so you could be properly flamed for this ASININE >posting, unfortunately I'll just have to do it myself. I'll save you the trouble. After much research with credit cards, I have come to discover what Hunter Thompson refers to as ``a certain dark aspect to that arrangement''. FOR FREE indeed. ===================== Commercial announcement ================================= Concerning this recent trend in .amiga bantering my good name about. I've decided to capitalize on it. Trailing Edge Technologies is pleased to announce the following TETflame programme: 1) For a negotiated price (no quatloos accepted) one of our flaming representatives will flame the living shit out of the poster of your choice. The price is inversly proportional to how much of an asshole the target it. We cannot be convinced to flame Dennis Ritchie. Matt Crawford flames are free. 2) For a negotiated price (same arrangement) the TETflame programme is offering ``flame insurence''. Under this arrangement, if one of our policy holders is flamed, we will cancel the offending article and flame the flamer, to a crisp. 3) The TETflame flaming representatives include: Richard Sexton, Oleg Kisalev, Diane Holt, Trish O'Tauma, Dave Hill, Greg Nowak and our most recent aquisition, Keith Doyle. But all he will do is put you in his kill file. Weemba by special arrangement. Inquire within. -- Hotel USENET richard@gryphon.COM {...}!gryphon!richard gryphon!richard@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
bell@unc.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell) (01/09/89)
In article <254300027@trsvax> johnm@trsvax.UUCP writes: >I hate to break this to all of you "geniuses" but some of us who could have >credit cards choose not to. An astonishing concept really, and yet, it does >happen. I have none and I don't really want any. >John Munsch You forgot to mention the oft overlooked point that if you're trying to get a loan, banks will consider credit cards as loans up to your credit limit on the loan (or something like that...) Anyway, regarding moderation: Perhaps if Bob can set up things for anonymous FTP, he could do such with animations people send him, and post just a message regarding it? No overworking USENET that way, yet there's still a distribution point for animations... If this overcrowds things at ULowell, Bob could remove each anim after it has been around for a while... ------ Andrew Bell, living a double life at bell@cs.unc.edu and acb@cs.duke.edu "Why can't we ever attempt to solve a problem in this country without having a 'War' on it?" -Rich Thomson, talk.politics.misc
ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (01/11/89)
WARNING: rebuttal on credit cards, etc. and flame reply ahead. Skip if not interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- / hpldola:comp.sys.amiga / johnm@trsvax.UUCP flames:/ >A man walks up to you and says, "I'll give you a chance to order things by >mail using a means that the company you are ordering from will almost always >screw up. They will double bill you, incorrectly bill you and bill you >ages before they ship a damned thing. This will probably only take two or >three months to clear up." Strange. I would handle this in two ways. I keep a form letter around for bozos that do this sort of thing that I send to the company filling in the date and other specifics (total 10 minutes) saying that I am turning the charge over to VISA and then I send another letter to my card issuer saying why I am not paying it (non-receipt of goods, failure to fill order in a timely fashion) etc. THEN I NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH THAT COMPANY AGAIN. Why screw around with the cheapest when they have crappy service? The other thing is to send a mail order confirming the phone transaction if it is a new company I have not previously done business with stating that it is a confirmation of the phone order and stating that the order is cancelled if not fill within 30 days. This make the phone order fall under the mail order rules from the FTC and gives me leverage through the post office, etc. if they screw up. I have order many things thru the mail this way and have only had problems in 2 cases, both of which were cleared up quickly. >"Additionally, I'll be kind enough to either: charge interest from the moment >of purchase, OR stick you with a yearly charge of $25 for this service. Not >enough for you? Well, then I'll throw in the fact that you will typically >need more than one card because not everybody will accept just one. That will >add to the number of bills arriving in the mail, increase the chances of >having a card lost or stolen and add to the amount that you are paying for >this marvelous service." 25 day grace period, $6 year (VISA), 25 day grace, no fee for Discover. This is for cards for both my wife and I. I am sorry that you have had a bad experience, however. >I suggest in the future "Dave" that you read what I post. Go ahead, try it. >Right at the top of this posting is what I already said. The jist of it is, >"I don't have a credit card, nor do I want one. There are probably others >who feel as I do and therefore the idea of only distributing software by modems >to credit card holders is a dumb idea." There now. That wasn't so hard was >it? I didn't suggest that you cut your cards in half or in fact that anyone >who now uses credit cards stop. Only that I don't. >John Munsch Well John, that is all very nice... however, the majority of businesses look upon people without credit cards to be ....ahhhmm... deadbeats. I find your assertion that rental companies etc. will rent cars etc. without a credit card to be true, but typically you have to put up the rental costs +20% in cash and be over 25 (which I am). If you don't have a stable employment history, a phone in your name or are under 25, good luck. I personally don't trust rental companies with cash -- it is amazing the amount of 'damage' that occurs to their vehicles. The point I want to make is that your opinion does not reflect that of the majority of businesses. Now as to flaming - there is a time and place for being irate. By my posting, I was expressing my opinion - as you where in your posting - that you were being irrational in your beliefs with regard to credit cards. Flame to your heart's content - I quite frankly don't care. I'll consider the source and treat it in the same way that I treat all content-free material - I'll ignore it. Dave Sigh... One more for the kill file.