garvin@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) (01/19/89)
I seem to recall that a while ago someone posting a message saying that
that they had been accessing Ethernet (and maybe even using NFS) on their
Amiga by going through the Janus library to an Ethernet card on their PC
side? Is this possible (rather, I know it is possible, but how can it be
done, and does the software exist in PD for NFS or TCP/IP-SLIP-PC/IP sort of
things?)?
Also, what are your thoughts on the Ameristar Ethernet card and their
NFS software? How does it perform, and how does it stack up against other
systems?
Thanks for any info you can provide.
garvin@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu Michael Garvin NCSU Computing Center
Hoping soon to be running UN*X and NFS on his work 2000.................cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (01/20/89)
In article <2482@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> (Michael A. Garvin) writes:
Paraphrased : "Can you accesses NFS via the janus.library ?" and
"What do you think of the Ameristar product ?"
Yes, I suppose your could access NFS partitions via a PC-NFS setup.
You would have get PC-NFS running first (using autoexec.bat) on the
PC side, then use Jlink or whatever on the Amiga side to connect to
it. However when you realize that the cost of PC-NFS is the same as
Amiga-NFS (which includes the hardware) you would note that the
native Amiga-NFS is the way to go. I use Amiga-NFS here at Sun and
it is quite useful and does everything I would expect it to. At
some time I hope to be able to mount the Amiga as a server although
that is currently not possible. The Ameristar product has run flawlessly
for me and Ameristar has been quite helpful in answering any questions
I had. So I'm completely pleased.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.hugh@censor.UUCP (Hugh Gamble) (01/21/89)
In article <86118@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > In article <2482@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> (Michael A. Garvin) writes: > Paraphrased : "Can you accesses NFS via the janus.library ?" and > "What do you think of the Ameristar product ?" > > Yes, I suppose your could access NFS partitions via a PC-NFS setup. > You would have get PC-NFS running first (using autoexec.bat) on the > PC side, then use Jlink or whatever on the Amiga side to connect to > it. However when you realize that the cost of PC-NFS is the same as > Amiga-NFS (which includes the hardware) you would note that the > native Amiga-NFS is the way to go. I use Amiga-NFS here at Sun and ... > --Chuck McManis > uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com > These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. Good PC ethernet cards are dirt cheap, and there's lots of networking S/W out there besides PC-NFS. Certainly for Amiga only people the Amiga side is the cleanest way to go & the only vendor so far seems to be Ameristar. If you're close enough to the real world :-) that you have to deal with PCs you certainly can do things from the PC side of a 2000 with bridge board. One company who has S/W to do just that is LANware. I'll try to look up their address & phone # for anyone who would like more (commercial or otherwise) info. I have no connection with LANware & haven't seen a demo yet, but they had a good excuse for using the PC side & it sounds like they did a reasonable job. -- Hugh D. Gamble (416) 581-4354 {lsuc, utzoo}!censor!hugh (Std. Disclaimers) I can push any computer to its limits. Any computer can push me to *my* limits.
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (01/22/89)
In article <86118@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <2482@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> (Michael A. Garvin) writes: >Paraphrased : "Can you accesses NFS via the janus.library ?" and > "What do you think of the Ameristar product ?" > >Yes, I suppose your could access NFS partitions via a PC-NFS setup. >You would have get PC-NFS running first (using autoexec.bat) on the >PC side, then use Jlink or whatever on the Amiga side to connect to >it. However when you realize that the cost of PC-NFS is the same as >Amiga-NFS (which includes the hardware) you would note that the >native Amiga-NFS is the way to go. I use Amiga-NFS here at Sun and >it is quite useful and does everything I would expect it to. At >some time I hope to be able to mount the Amiga as a server although >that is currently not possible. The Ameristar product has run flawlessly >for me and Ameristar has been quite helpful in answering any questions >I had. So I'm completely pleased. A lot of Canadians (as well as others) have stuck with 1000/Sidecar setups, which doesn't allow the use of A2000 peripherals. There is a performance hit using the PC-NFS due to the slowness of the 8088 cpu doing the data transfers - but the cost of the Ameristar board is *very* high compared to the equivalent PC-based products. The future is likely to centre around SCSI-based hardware if I am not mistaken - the thing to do here is to try to ensure in the long run that SCSI access and control is more or less standardised on a subrou- tine level... I know the Sidecar is "obsolete", and Dr. Rubin wants the A1000 to be buried, but lots are still happy with theirs... so please don't flame about not upgrading to A2000, it's partly a "religious" issue up here (& elsewhere, I suspect). >--Chuck McManis >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com >These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. Cheers, -- _ _/\ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. \`o O| Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu \(")/ BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET ---mm-U-mm--- "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue" - Oliver North
rick@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Rick Spanbauer) (01/24/89)
In article <228@becker.UUCP>, bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes: > In article <86118@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: > >In article <2482@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> (Michael A. Garvin) writes: > hit using the PC-NFS due to the slowness of the > 8088 cpu doing the data transfers - but the cost > of the Ameristar board is *very* high compared to > the equivalent PC-based products. The future is Ahem. PC-NFS from Sun is US$395 quantity one. Probably even more in Canada. Sun charges ~US$399 for an ethernet board, again quantity one. We charge $899, Q1 for our integrated ethernet/nfs/ tcp/ip product. So the PC solution is ~$800 -vs- native Amiga at $899. A difference of $99 simple does not strike me as "*very* high compared to the equivalent...". And of course the PC based $800 solution also requires the bridge card in order to be used on the Amiga. So the systems cost is less for our hw/sw package. If the complaint is actually that the generic PC equivalent HW or software items costs less than an Amiga widget, understand that there are millions of PC/PC clones, while there are perhaps 1 million or so Amiga. Less volume => higher cost. > _ _/\ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. > \`o O| Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu > \(")/ BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET > ---mm-U-mm--- "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue" - Oliver North Rick Spanbauer Ameristar
steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steven G. Hall) (01/25/89)
In article <283@censor.UUCP>, hugh@censor.UUCP (Hugh Gamble) writes: > Good PC ethernet cards are dirt cheap, and there's lots of networking S/W > out there besides PC-NFS. Certainly for Amiga only people the Amiga > side is the cleanest way to go & the only vendor so far seems to be > Ameristar. Seeing as we have a couple of Novell networks running here at work with an ethernet backbone, I am very interested in how the Ameristar would work if it were attached to this system. Does it come with all drivers needed to attach to the network? Does it run in its own window? I would most appreciate a summary of how it work work. Thanks in advance :-) -= Steve =- -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- LIVE: Steve Hall (617)969-0050 | Disclaimer: If ARPA: adelie!morgoth!steve@harvard.HARVARD.EDU | confronted, I'll deny UUCP: {harvard|ll-xn|mirror|axiom}!adelie!morgoth!steve | I ever said anything.
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (01/26/89)
In article <2052@sbcs.sunysb.edu> rick@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Rick Spanbauer) writes: +------------- |In article <228@becker.UUCP>, bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes: |> In article <86118@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: |> >In article <2482@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> (Michael A. Garvin) writes: | |> hit using the PC-NFS due to the slowness of the |> 8088 cpu doing the data transfers - but the cost |> of the Ameristar board is *very* high compared to |> the equivalent PC-based products. The future is | | Ahem. PC-NFS from Sun is US$395 quantity one. Probably even | more in Canada. Sun charges ~US$399 for an ethernet board, again +------------- A Western Digital ethernet board sells for about $180-$200 these days... +------------- | quantity one. We charge $899, Q1 for our integrated ethernet/nfs/ | tcp/ip product. So the PC solution is ~$800 -vs- native Amiga | at $899. A difference of $99 simple does not strike me as | "*very* high compared to the equivalent...". And of course | the PC based $800 solution also requires the bridge card in order | to be used on the Amiga. So the systems cost is less for our | hw/sw package. If the complaint is actually that the generic PC | equivalent HW or software items costs less than an Amiga widget, | understand that there are millions of PC/PC clones, while there | are perhaps 1 million or so Amiga. Less volume => higher cost. +------------- Do you supply FTP & Telnet? Implementations of these are in the public domain, and at least in one instance TCP is provided over the serial port as well, in a package which runs on Amigas as well as PC's, etc. +------------- | Rick Spanbauer | Ameristar +------------- Public Domain NSF is still in the works - I'm not sure when it will be available, since some of it is tricky - but it'll be there fairly soon... Also it won't be all that long before SCSI ethernet boxes appear at reasonable prices, and the SCSI folks (or some kind net.persons) make some driver software to use them. Since the SCSI market isn't limited to one type of machine, the potential market volume will be comparatively much higher... Cheers, -- _ _/\ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. \`o O| Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu \(")/ BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET ---mm-U-mm--- "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue" - Oliver North
brianr@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Brian Rhodefer) (01/26/89)
I bought a Bridgeboard with my A2000 so that I could use it here at work to run MS-DOS based tools on the Bridge while using the Amiga-side to compose documents. Shortly thereafter, my employer provided me with an Ethernet drop, and a Sun PC-NFS package. I discovered that when the NFS driving software was started on the Bridgeboard, (i.e., "net start ....") communications between the "Amiga side" and the "IBM side" were impaired. I was using the Janus device to mount an Amiga partition on a hard disk attached to the Bridgeboard; when NFS was started, all Amiga tasks which tried to access files on this partition hung. Closing down the NFS package didn't reestablish file access. Since I didn't absolutely require Ethernet access, I refrained from using the NFS programs, so as to be able to use the Janus hard drive partition. Difficulties I experienced while trying to replace my 20MB hard disk with a larger one convinced me that the Janus device isn't suitably functional, and I replaced it with a naitive Amiga hard drive (GVP Hard-card). With no further need to access the IBM-resident hard drive, I thought that I'd be able to use the NFS package once more. Nope. The Aread and Awrite commands must rely upon the same communication methods; they also cease to work if NFS is active. The only difference is that it is the IBM side that hangs, instead of the Amiga. I should point out that I'm blissfully ignorant of IBM pc hardware and machine-level programming issues. An expert could probably snoop through the 8088's memory, find & disassemble the Bridgeboard/Amiga communications code, and locate and resolve the Bridge/NFS conflict. I'm just not up to it. Equivalent snoopery of the NFS software and 3Com driver board is probably unnecessary: *THEIR* manuals describe exactly which interrupts, I/O ports, and memory spaces are used and impacted. People similarly uncomfortable with issues like these might do well to avoid trying to run PC-NFS software on Bridgeboards. A formerly confident ML programmer, Brian Rhodefer ...!tektronix!tekig5!brianr
rick@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Rick Spanbauer) (01/27/89)
In article <241@becker.UUCP>, bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes: > In article <2052@sbcs.sunysb.edu> rick@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Rick Spanbauer) writes: > A Western Digital ethernet board sells for about > $180-$200 these days... > $395 + $180 is more than the quantity price we charge our VARs. Of course if I saw a tenth the volume of what Western Digital sells, our ethernet board would cost $180 too. The point here is that parts + labor are not the only factors in determining retail price. > +------------- > | quantity one. We charge $899, Q1 for our integrated ethernet/nfs/ > | tcp/ip product. So the PC solution is ~$800 -vs- native Amiga > | at $899. A difference of $99 simple does not strike me as > | "*very* high compared to the equivalent...". And of course > > Do you supply FTP & Telnet? Implementations of these are > in the public domain, and at least in one instance TCP > is provided over the serial port as well, in a package which > runs on Amigas as well as PC's, etc. Yes, and NFS too. And we have a VAR that has X11R2 in beta test. And of course we have shown NeWS 1.0 running on the Amiga at last years Sigraph. And we have a bunch of new software products in the works. What is your point, sir? PD software and professional software can coexist, you know. The ka9q code is PD and an excellent package at that. But then Excelan, Interlan, Sun, 3Com, Bell Tech, etc all still seem to be in business and at least on the surface do quite well financially. In spite of the PD product. Why is this? (Hint: support) > Public Domain NSF is still in the works - I'm not sure when > it will be available, since some of it is tricky - but it'll > be there fairly soon... And Amiga NFS has been available for ~2 years and cost US$899. Ours has been characterized against practically all NFS servers known and has been found to run well. NFS is not as simple as one might believe by reading the NFS RFC. Many things are left unspecified. > Also it won't be all that long before SCSI ethernet boxes > appear at reasonable prices, and the SCSI folks (or some > kind net.persons) make some driver software to use them. > Since the SCSI market isn't limited to one type of machine, > the potential market volume will be comparatively much higher... But then again, IBM PC's and Amigas don't come stock with SCSI ports. I suspect that the following relation will remain true for at least another couple years: $(ethernet/scsi port + scsi board) > $ethernet board Due to the way ethernet is partitioned in most products. But these days of 120000 gate gate-arrays may change that :-) Anways it probably true that ethernet will be the next rs-232 in 5 years, but before this happens chipset costs will have to come down to what a USART costs these days, ie < $5. > _ _/\ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. Bruce, do me a favor. Call up a distributor, eg Arrow, HamAv, etc and ask what an Intel 82586, AMD 7990, or National ethernet chipset costs. Send me mail telling me the answer you get and why it is important. Rick Spanbauer Ameristar