tensi@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Thomas Tensi) (01/20/89)
Referring to my question about editors for the AMIGA for doing TeX documents in I want to give a summary of replies and personal experiences. I wanted the following: > 1. an ASCII-Editor for use together with AmigaTeX (sort of programmer's > editor with word wrap); > I currently use emacs for that and I think it's absolutely adequate, but > it's not intuitive enough for naive users (very cryptic sometimes). The > following things are necessary: > > - menu oriented > - request for files should be done by file requesters > - cut and paste by mouse selection > - automatic word wrap > > If the program used Intuition as a communication medium (lots of > requesters and message boxes etc.), that would be fine. Also a product > with a German interface is preferred (but that's not strictly necessary). > > I heard about a new product from a German firm (Data Becker), which is > called "EDwork" and seems to be quite configurable (obviously even the > menus can be changed). Can anyone from the Germany comment on that? I got a lot of hints (many thanks to those who replied either by E-mail or to the net) in which I was told about products where at least demo versions exist on public domain disks. As I didn't want to spend a lot of money just by buying editors and finding the best, I decided to restrict my search to those. The editors examined were TxEd (demo on Fish#31), CygnusEd (demo on Fish #95), MicroEmacs 3.9 (version with source code on Fish #119), Uedit (demo on Fish #121) and MicroGnuEmacs 2b (version with source code on Fish #147). Attention: Comments on commercial products below apply only to the demo versions. I just tried to deduce the performance of the full versions from what I saw in the demos. TxEd: ----- + simple menus, intuitive; mouse oriented; new windows for multiple file editing; highlighting of selected area; - no file requester; cut and paste by marking ends of desired area (special menu; demo version can't handle foreign keymap; no adjusting of margins possible in demo version (for indentation etc.); seems to be quite unconfigurable; no help function; no macros; General impression: The demo version obviously does not give information about the abilities of the full product (thus no comment). But I have to admit it's one of the earlier fish disks. CygnusEd: --------- + very well structured menus; fine file requester; scrolling by dragging the mouse at top or bottom margin (rate depends on distance from window center!); very intuitive setting of right and left margin (moving lines as in a CAD system); help function; requesters coming up at the mouse pointer; tile size (vertically tiled main window) easily changed by dragging title bars (btw. =multiple files); macros; +-? window tiling; - help buffers can be written (confuses the naive user); left margin only used for printout (no indentation on screen by setting the left margin); configuration only slightly configurable (macros); problems with foreign keymap; General impression: I liked that one very much. Except for the hard-coded US keymap. I hope they did something about configurability in the new version (CygnusEd Professional) and fixed the illogical behaviour of the left margin. Uedit: ------ + menus; 4 gadgets always visible; totally configurable (even menu entries and keymap); multiple files; highlighting of selected area; +-? visible gadgets occupy some screen space; help; left margin definition? - overwhelming menus (about 300 entries (with submenus); bad for the naive user); no reasonable file requester (CTRL-clicking into directory buffer, is that intuitive?); obviously buffers can't be looked at concurrently; demo version had problems with keymap (but that can also be configured); selection of text slightly complicated (not possible via menus); General impression: The demo version didn't allow the configuration of the program. This was one of the main advantages of this program, but I couldn't test it! I found the interface sometimes visually confusing. If the availability of this program in Germany was better, I would give it a try as it's not expensive (about 30$), but do business across the Atlantic on a demo? Result: recommended, but IMHO needs didactical and visual brushing up. MicroEmacs 3.9: --------------- + many functions; multiple files; supports foreign keymaps; source code part of distribution; public domain (sort of); +-? window tiling; help restricted to list of commands; - no menus; no highlighting of selected area; selection by mark and point; no redefinition of function keys; bad configurability; no file requester; no left margin definition; communication done on status line; scrolling only by keys; General impression: I use emacs at work. It's a hackers editor with many possibilities for the experienced user. This is a stripped down version of the GNU emacs which is a bit better in functionality than the one on the extras disk, but less intuitive. A lack of menus is not tolerable for the unskilled user. MicroGnuEmacs 2b: ----------------- + menus; multiple files; supports foreign keymaps; functions can be bound to keys (but not sequences of functions!); adapts to screen size automatically; source code part of distribution; public domain (sort of); sufficient configurability; multiple files; iconifies; +-? nice file selection by browsing in menu line (menu items are contents of directories), but that occupies nearly the whole menu line; window tiling; help restricted to describing key function binding; - no file requester (see browser!); communication done on status line; no left margin definition; no indication of selected area; scrolling only by keys (normally); General impression: As I use emacs at work (I already said that :-) and this one does at least some menuing, it has some advantages over the others. I could fully configure the system for my father by putting the important things on function keys and it can also handle umlaut characters (AmigaTeX like them). No German menus for my father, but anytime I like I can change them in the source code and recompile the whole stuff. I'm ambivalent about the file browser: it's nice, but now they had to cram everything else in one menu and several submenus. But it's quite practical for file selection. The only serious complaint I have: put in the emacs "fill-prefix" stuff to allow for paragraphs with indented margins and let macros be bound to keys. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ok, hope this has helped a bit on editors. Maybe somebody else can comment on editors I didn't mention. No comments arrived on simple DTP systems, but you can't have everything :-) Once again thanks to all who gave helpful comments on above topic. Thomas Thomas Tensi, Institut fuer Informatik, Technische Univ. Muenchen, Arcisstr. 21, 8000 Muenchen 2, West Germany | E-Mail: | tensi@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (X.400) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@relay.cs.net (arpa/csnet) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@unido.uucp (uucp) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@ddoinf6.bitnet (bitnet)
sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) (01/22/89)
In article <493@infovax.lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de> tensi@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Thomas Tensi) writes: [regarding text editors] >Ok, hope this has helped a bit on editors. Maybe somebody else can comment on >editors I didn't mention. I use "z" which comes with Manx C. It's a "vi" lookalike, and has pretty much everything vi does except the "ex" commands. It is a very small subset of them but not large enough. Nonetheless, being a hardened Unix user, I'm right at home with "z". It loads up fast (I think it's 44K), resizes, and at least seems to be reentrant. I've had no problem "rez"zing it. Sean -- *** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet *** Who sometimes never learns. {backbone site|rutgers|uunet}!ukma!sean *** U of K, Lexington Kentucky, USA ..where Christian movies are banned. *** ``There's only TWO THINGS come out of Oklahoma...''
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (01/23/89)
Thomas Tensi posted a pretty good survey of several editors. Included
among them was the CygnusEd demo version put on a Fish disk eons ago.
I wanted to emphasize that that demo is now fully two years old. The
current CygnusEd Professional is an altogether different animal pos-
sessing the best features of the earlier program and a whole lot more.
--
Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc.
ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque!
UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perryejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (01/25/89)
In article <423@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: >Thomas Tensi posted a pretty good survey of several editors. Included >among them was the CygnusEd demo version put on a Fish disk eons ago. Relax, CygnusEd wasn't the only one in that boat. The Uedit version he used is a over year old, and the TxEd demo he used is older than the CygnusEd demo. -- Eric Kennedy ejkst@cisunx.UUCP
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom MKT) (01/26/89)
In article <10940@s.ms.uky.edu> sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
$I use "z" which comes with Manx C. It's a "vi" lookalike, and has pretty much
$everything vi does except the "ex" commands. It is a very small subset of them
$but not large enough. Nonetheless, being a hardened Unix user, I'm right at
$home with "z". It loads up fast (I think it's 44K), resizes, and at least seems
$to be reentrant. I've had no problem "rez"zing it.
$
$Sean
I also like z a lot since I'm a vi fan, but it's hardly for inexperienced
users. I tried stevie but found it to be too slow.
vi's symmetry and <move-actions> orientation is great once you get
used to it, but for people who use typewriters usually, forget it. The
learn system under Ultrix teaches a lot about vi and would help if it were
available on the Amiga.
TextCraft Plus pleases a lot of first time users because it's SIMPLE.
But let's not get into an "editor war".
Paul.
Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and not those of my employer.tensi@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Thomas Tensi) (01/30/89)
In article <15253@cisunx.UUCP> ejkst@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Eric J. Kennedy) writes: >In article <423@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: > >>Thomas Tensi posted a pretty good survey of several editors. Included >>among them was the CygnusEd demo version put on a Fish disk eons ago. > >Relax, CygnusEd wasn't the only one in that boat. The Uedit version he >used is a over year old, and the TxEd demo he used is older than the >CygnusEd demo. > >-- >Eric Kennedy Sorry about that, but the Fish disks were all I had. It's very hard to get at new demo versions in Germany. What about an editor survey disk in Fred Fish's series? I assume that an editor is the program used most by programmers on the amiga. I hope that it nevertheless was informative. Thomas Thomas Tensi, Institut fuer Informatik, Technische Univ. Muenchen, Arcisstr. 21, 8000 Muenchen 2, West Germany | E-Mail: | tensi@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (X.400) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@relay.cs.net (arpa/csnet) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@unido.uucp (uucp) | tensi%lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de@ddoinf6.bitnet (bitnet)