daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (01/18/89)
I was just wondering --- How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? Along these same lines, why do most periferals for the AMIGA not come with this interface option? If this were used more commonly, then I would not have to get switch boxes, or change things around so much. Example -- here at work I have 4 100MB disks all plugged into one port. Maybe some folks at CBM could comment. Thanks, Dave (Just wondering) S.
tsub@pnet02.cts.com (Tom Wang) (01/19/89)
I don't know why, but it's a good question. But if you needed an IEEE-488,
you can get the Twin-X General Purpose I/O board and an extra interface from
IEEE-959 to the 488 from ADSG.
------
Tom Wang
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!tsub
INET: tsub@pnet02.cts.comcmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (01/19/89)
In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> (Dave Scroggins) writes: >How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? >Dave (Just wondering) S. Maybe they learned something from the PET ? Chuck (Just guessing) M. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) (01/19/89)
In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? I can't answer that. But it would certainly mean additional hardware (and software, of course) to support it. >Along these same lines, why do most periferals for the AMIGA not come >with this interface option? My suggestion is that SCSI seems to be replacing GPIB as a general-purpose high speed 8-bit multiple node interface bus. >If this were used more commonly, then I would not have to get switch boxes, >or change things around so much. Understandable. I should mention that there is now a GPIB (a.k.a. HPIB; IEEE-488) interface available for the Amiga. ASDG produces a GPIB module for the Twin-X general- purpose I/O board. -- Aaron Avery, ASDG Inc. "A mime is a terrible thing to waste." -- Robin Williams ARPA: madnix!aaron@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!aaron
scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) (01/20/89)
In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? >If this were used more commonly, then I would not have to get switch boxes, >or change things around so much. >Example -- here at work I have 4 100MB disks all plugged into one port. HPIB on an amiga??!! argh. do SCSI. much faster. my experience with HPIB is with HP64000's and an HP9000/350 machine which has it's hard drive connected to the computer via HPIB. we're told by a reliable source within HP that the HPIB is the weak link in our file server, and that we should have got a SCSI disk instead. add to that the amount of fun & games required to get two IEEE 488 devices which are more complex than a printer or an oscilloscope to talk to each other, and i'd say no to HPIB. the complexity i have experienced is with my company's products (telecommunications techniques corp - telecom line testers) being controlled by computers. it's amazing how many calls we get per day about how to talk to the damned thing with so-and-so's 488 controller. >Thanks, > >Dave (Just wondering) S. --Scotty
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/20/89)
In <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes:> >I was just wondering --- > >How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? Because they had to make a choice. They didn't choose IEEE-488. >Along these same lines, why do most periferals for the AMIGA not come >with this interface option? Because they wouldn't plug into a macchine without these ports. >If this were used more commonly, then I would not have to get switch boxes, >or change things around so much. If IEEE-488 peripherals were more common, or at least more common than serial or Centronics peripherals, they might have provided one. >Example -- here at work I have 4 100MB disks all plugged into one port. Counter example. Here at home I have two HDs plugged into a SCSI port. I could have at least as many HDs on the SCSI port as I could on an IEEE-488 port, and at least as much storage on each one. The only disadvantage to SCSI is that the controllers/drives cost a lot less, so they lose in the 'brag potential' department. >Maybe some folks at CBM could comment. Maybe. -larry -- Frisbeetarianism: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca or uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (01/20/89)
In article <410@madnix.UUCP> aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) writes: >I should mention that there is now a GPIB (a.k.a. HPIB; IEEE-488) interface >available for the Amiga. ASDG produces a GPIB module for the Twin-X general- >purpose I/O board. If i remember right Black Box will sell you an HPIB<->serial adapter in the $100-$200 range. This would work on any amiga; I was under the impression that Twin-X is for A2000 only? Anyways, how much would a Twin-X->HPIB lashup cost? I have a nice HPIB plotter which is totally useless as it has that blasted HPIB bus (which is why i got it for free, since the former owner had no use for that bus either ....) ron
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (01/21/89)
software, of course) to support it. > >>Along these same lines, why do most periferals for the AMIGA not come >with this interface option? > >My suggestion is that SCSI seems to be replacing GPIB as a general-purpose >highspeed 8-bit multiple node interface bus. Well I have never actually used a SCSI device, but did work on some ICs for SCSI. (Am I allowed to say that?? The product is released.) Anyhow I have never heard of SCSI used for anything but disk drives. Has anyone seen or heard of SCSI being used for something other than Disks? It does seem as though SCSI is more popular with PC type machines. (Am I allowed to say PC here?? ;=) I don't mean to equate the AMIGA to an IBM machine.) It does seem like a good idea to use some sort of "multiple node interface bus". By the way -- Thanks to the folks who pointed me to the ADSG product. Have you ever used the thing? How does the driver fit in with the other AMIGA stuff? Dave S.
tsub@pnet02.cts.com (Tom Wang) (01/21/89)
I saw somewhere (probably in a magazine) that the Twin-X from ASDG retails for
$329, but I don't know how much the HPIB (IEEE-488) adapter is.
--
Tom Wang
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!tsub
INET: tsub@pnet02.cts.comperry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (01/22/89)
In article <160@ziggy.UUCP> scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) writes: >In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: >>How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >>IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? >an oscilloscope to talk to each other, and i'd say no to HPIB. the complexity One point not addressed by this view is the one billion dollars each year spent on instrumentation which comes with IEEE-488 interfaces. Granted, GPIB may be an aging specification but it is found much more commonly in the world than SCSI. This situation will remain unchanged for at least the next decade to come. (I hope it's clear that I'm talking about instrumentation not disk drives where, of course, SCSI dominates relative to IEEE-488). We at ASDG felt it was essential for the Amiga to possess a full fledged GPIB capability before it could successfully penetrate the laboratory or process control markets. This was the guiding force behind our development of a high speed GPIB capability for the Amiga. -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (01/22/89)
In article <5145@super.ORG> rminnich@metropolis.UUCP (Ronald G Minnich) writes: >In article <410@madnix.UUCP> aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) writes: >>I should mention that there is now a GPIB (a.k.a. HPIB; IEEE-488) interface >>available for the Amiga. ASDG produces a GPIB module for the Twin-X general- >>purpose I/O board. >If i remember right Black Box will sell you an HPIB<->serial >adapter in the $100-$200 range. This would work on any amiga; >I was under the impression that Twin-X is for A2000 only? >Anyways, how much would a Twin-X->HPIB lashup cost? A Serial To GPIB converter, while being a good solution for those who wish to dabble in GPIB, has some serious drawbacks for any substantial use of GPIB equipment. The most serious, perhaps, is that IEEE-488 will send and receive data at rates which are far higher than most computers can reliably send and re- ceive serial data. The reliability of Amiga serial receiving drops drama- tically above 19.2KBaud (or about 1920 characters per second). Even if we were to have reliable receives at 292KBaud we're still talking about less than 30,000 characters per second. Our IEEE-488 solution, for example, will send and receive at rates as high as 200,000 characters per second. Another difficulty with Serial To GPIB converters is the difficulty with which GPIB control and status signals translate into serial counterparts. The retail prices for the Twin-X/GPIB solution are: Twin-X General Purpose Input/Output Board: $329 SBX-GPIB (A module implementing IEEE-488): $199 Twin-X can support 2 modules so after adding the SBX-GPIB module, there's still one more available. SBX-GPIB comes with a diskette containing our hardware level driver (actually implemented as a library) as well as several sample applications. By The Way: ASDG offers a developer program under which ASDG will provide hardware at a discount, technical assistance, and certain marketing and logistical help. Our aim is to encourage the development of applications which might not have been brought to the Amiga without the existence of a general purpose i/o board (twin-x). -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry
bader+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Bader) (01/22/89)
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: > >My suggestion is that SCSI seems to be replacing GPIB as a general-purpose > >highspeed 8-bit multiple node interface bus. > > Anyhow I have never heard of SCSI used for anything but disk drives. > > Has anyone seen or heard of SCSI being used for something other than > Disks? All of our sun 3/50's use it for the streaming tape drive... -Miles
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (01/23/89)
The spindle motor on the current generations of Seagate (and almost all other) drives is a DC servo motor that is about the same as used on direct drive phono turntables. On drives such as the ST-251R, etc., the problem is apparently the stepper motor that controls positioning of the heads. When the drive powers up, the stepper is commanded to release the head assembly from park. There is a fail-safe that does not spin up the platter if the heads don't release. At least, that's how it was described to me. Sounds backwards to me. I'd think you'd want the platter moving before releasing the heads, so that there is sufficient air motion to fly the heads. Hmmm. The repair person said the poking the head stepper motor shaft would cure the sticky Seagates. I have a 20 meg drive here that says "Epson" on it, but appears that it might have been OEM'ed by Quantum. This drive suffers from so-called stiction (sticky + friction ??). Apparently, the platters were supposed to be lubricated with some sort of silicone stuff,... but it didn't work. When the drive stops, the heads adhere to the platter in much the same way that machinists guage blocks stick together due to the ultra flat surfaces. The only way to get the drive moving is to poke the flywheel with a screwdriver because the spindle motor doesn't have enough torque to break the heads loose. Miraculously, the drive hasn't gotten any damage from the sticking heads, eventhough it is not auto-parking. The drive electronics for the spindle motor are working correctly. There was an article in one of the August 1988 issues of PC Week that said stiction was relatively frequent failure mode seen by a drive repair company in the midwest US. --Bill
kodiak@amiga.UUCP (Robert R. Burns) (01/26/89)
In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> (Dave Scroggins) writes: >How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an >IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? >Dave (Just wondering) S. In Europe, home of a Commodore known as a business computer company, an idea based historically on the popular PET computer with IEEE-488, there is a third party IEEE-488 board available for the A2000. I mention this lest we all think ASDG is the only manufacturer to think of this solution. I left the filer I picked up at EuroDevConII at home: email from serious inquirers will be responded to w/ details. -- Bob Burns, amiga!kodiak _ | /_ _|. _ | Commodore __ |_) _ |_ _ )' |<(_)(_)|(_\|< /\ | ||| _` /\ |_)(_\| )(_\ | | \ Software ___/..\|\/|||__|/..\___ Faith
jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Jim Wright) (01/26/89)
In article <3278@amiga.UUCP> kodiak@tooter.UUCP (Robert Burns) writes: >In Europe, [...] >I mention this >lest we all think ASDG is the only manufacturer to think of this solution. Does anyone have information on international products for the Amiga, particularly hardware products? It seems most of the (U.S.) Usenet readers are pretty familiar with domestic products. I for one know almost nothing about other countries' offerings. I will gladly accept email and post a summary. (Here's your chance to get a commercial posted in a non-commercial way. :-) Especially interested in hearing from folks abroad. Hopefully you can unwind the header to get back to me. Jim Wright atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu
dan@ivucsb.UUCP (Dan Howell) (02/02/89)
In article <2030146@hpcilzb.HP.COM> daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) writes: |I was just wondering --- |How come the AMIGA, particularly the new ones, do not come with an |IEEE-488 (HPIB) instead of or in addition to the Centronics ports? |Along these same lines, why do most periferals for the AMIGA not come |with this interface option? |If this were used more commonly, then I would not have to get switch boxes, |or change things around so much. |Example -- here at work I have 4 100MB disks all plugged into one port. |Maybe some folks at CBM could comment. |Thanks, |Dave (Just wondering) S. An IEEE-488 interface which plugs into the parallel port of the Amiga and allows up to 15 devices is available from A.D.I. 2425 W. 155th St. Gardena, CA 90249 Write for details. -- Dan Howell <...!apple!comdesign!ivucsb!dan> <dan@ivucsb.UUCP>