kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) (01/17/89)
Hi out there! Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? Would be gratefull for some info... -- Realname: Kim Lilliestierna Uucp mail: ndosl!cc-krs!kim Snail mail: DEFACTO A/S Barst|lvejen 26 4636 Kristiansand S Norway TEL: 47 (0)42 47688 FAX: 47 (0)42 43950 TELEX: 21076
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (01/19/89)
kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) wrote: >Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to >come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not intuition, workbench or X, or anything else you've ever seen) is pretty slick. No flames, OK? A non-standard windowing system is better than nothing. Beside, it's slick. VERY fast. It's currently not for sale. >Would be gratefull for some info... Such as? ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page Have five nice days.
ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) (01/19/89)
In article <974@cc-krs.UUCP> kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) writes: >Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to >come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? The A2500 (non-UX version) is already available; it is an A2000 plus the 68020 card with 2Meg of 32-bit RAM, the 2090A SCSI/HD controller, and a 40Meg (I think) hard disk. The A2500UX has not been officially released, but is expected to be similar to the A2500 except for having a larger hard disk (80Meg), a cartridge tape drive, and the Unix software. -- -=] Ford [=- "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com
tsub@pnet02.cts.com (Tom Wang) (01/19/89)
Will Commodore be releasing the UNIX software for Amiga(Amix) alone for those
who want to upgrade from their 2000 (getting all the other necessary hardware
of course)?
--
Tom Wang
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!tsub
INET: tsub@pnet02.cts.comejkst@cisunx.UUCP (Eric J. Kennedy) (01/19/89)
In article <11280@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) wrote: >>Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to >>come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? > >It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not Any idea whether it allows Unix and AmigaDOS simultaneously, or Unix and MS-DOS simultaneously? -- Eric Kennedy ejkst@cisunx.UUCP
amiga@athena.mit.edu (MITAUG Staff) (01/19/89)
In article <5732@cbmvax.UUCP> ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) writes: >In article <974@cc-krs.UUCP> kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) writes: >>Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to >>come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? . . . > >The A2500UX has not been officially released, but is expected to be similar >to the A2500 except for having a larger hard disk (80Meg), a cartridge tape >drive, and the Unix software. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >-- | | Really???? What kind of tape drive and can I find one for my GVP Controller???? Ric Carreras ARPA: carreras@lees.mit.edu BIX: carreras
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (01/20/89)
In article <11280@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes:
->kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) wrote:
->>Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to
->>come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)?
->
->It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not
->intuition, workbench or X, or anything else you've ever seen) is
->pretty slick. No flames, OK? A non-standard windowing system is
->better than nothing. Beside, it's slick. VERY fast.
Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand.
There should be two big reasons why they shold use it:
1) It is fast becoming the standard Unix windowing system.
2) A former Commodore-Amiga employee (Dale Luck) has already X11
working under AmigaDOS.
->..Bob
->--
->Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page
->Have five nice days.
--
-+= SAM =+-
"the best things in life are free"
ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.govvinsci@abo.fi (Leonard Norrgard) (01/20/89)
In article <5732@cbmvax.UUCP>, ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) writes: > The A2500 (non-UX version) is already available; it is an A2000 plus the > 68020 card with 2Meg of 32-bit RAM, the 2090A SCSI/HD controller, and a > 40Meg (I think) hard disk. This is what I've been waiting for. I suppose the 68020 card is available separately, too. Has anybody got a phone# to a mailorder company carrying the 68020 card (must accept Visa credit cards)? Final price? Pretty hard to find those mail order ads over here... -- Leonard Norrgaard, vinsci@abo.fi, vinsci@finabo.bitnet, +358-21-654474, EET.
tsub@pnet02.cts.com (Tom Wang) (01/20/89)
The tape back up in the 2500UX is a 150 megabyte Irwin streaming tape drive.
--
Tom Wang
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <backbone>}!gryphon!pnet02!tsub
INET: tsub@pnet02.cts.comnews@afit-ab.arpa (News System Account) (01/20/89)
Both Amiga World (Feb 89) and The Amiga Sentry (Jan 89) offered their own tidbits about the 2500UX. The following is quoted without permission: Amiga World page 10. The Amiga 2500 UX, which runs UNIX System V, Release 3.1 (called AMIX on the Amiga) adds two mega-bytes of 32-bit memory and a 150MB streaming-tape backup unit to the A2500, and replaces the 40MB drive with a high-speed 80MB drive. The system software includes text-processing utilities and software development tools. The A2500 is described elsewhere on the page. The Amiga Sentry page 4. The A2500 begins withe the 2000-HD and adds the A2620 co-processor card to create a 68020 based Amiga. The 2620 is equiped with a 16MHz 68020 running at 14.3MHz, 2 Megabytes of 32 bit RAM, a M68881 math co-processor, and a 68851 memory management unit (MMU). The 2 Meg 32bit memory is, of course, in addition to the 1 meg of 16 bit memory standard in every 2000. The 2620 board is installed in the co-processor slot on the motherboard, so all the normal expansion slots are free. (The 2090-A takes one of these.) At a suggested price of $4699, the A2500 . . . The third new machine is the A2500 UX. This one starts with an A2500, adds two more megabytes of 32 bit memory on the A2620 card, replaces the 40 meg harddrive with 80 meg, and adds a 150 megabyte Irwin streaming tape drive. All this hardware is needed for the ATT Unix System V with Commodore's own AIX windowing interface. No pricing or availability was announced. . . . The 2500 UX is currently available to qualified Commercial developers only, so we can expect that there are still some "issues" being resolved. Both magazines expect at least the A 2500 to be available "early" in 89. Somewhere else (I don't recall exactly where) it was mentioned that all pieces of the A2500 UX could be purchased separately to add to an existing system, but I'm certainly not the one to ask. With appologies to Amiga World and The Amiga Sentry for not obtaining permission to quote them. "There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full." -- Heny Kissinger These are my rabid ramblings, and no one else's ......(i.e., disclaimer) Mark
ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) (01/20/89)
[ This article contains unofficial, preliminary information about unreleased products, subject to change, etc. etc., and represents my opinions, not Commodore policy. But you knew all that, and the disclaimer-eater has probably eaten this paragraph anyway. ] In article <10901@gryphon.COM> tsub@pnet02.cts.com (Tom Wang) writes: >Will Commodore be releasing the UNIX software for Amiga(Amix) alone for those >who want to upgrade from their 2000 (getting all the other necessary hardware >of course)? My understanding is that this is not planned immediately upon release of the 2500UX, but will come shortly thereafter. I beleive there have been official statements from Commodore that A2000 owners will always be able to upgrade to the technology of new Amiga computers. In article <15088@cisunx.UUCP> ejkst@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Eric J. Kennedy) writes: >Any idea whether it allows Unix and AmigaDOS simultaneously, or Unix and >MS-DOS simultaneously? Neither Amiga Exec nor Amiga Unix can share the CPU with another OS, and either OS running "under" the other would lose much of its usefulness. In other words, this is really tricky, and we haven't done it yet. :-) The BridgeBoard, having its own CPU, will work under Unix, but the Amiga-side application (the "PC window") has not yet been ported to Unix. Eventually, there will be some sort of MS-DOS-in-a-window type of facility for Unix. In article <8825@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> amiga@athena.mit.edu (MITAUG Staff) writes: >What kind of tape drive and can I find one for my GVP Controller???? The tape drive we are currently using is a QIC-150 format SCSI drive which can also read (but not write) QIC-24 format tapes, such as used by some other Unix workstations. QIC-150 format gets 165 Megabytes on a tape. As far as I know, any SCSI controller should be able to access such a drive if it had appropriate driver software. I don't know of any AmigaDos device drivers for SCSI tape drives, although I hear that work is being done in that area. -- -=] Ford [=- "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (01/21/89)
In article <5732@cbmvax.UUCP> ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) writes: > The A2500UX has not been officially released, but is expected to be similar > to the A2500 except for having a larger hard disk (80Meg), a cartridge tape > drive, and the Unix software. > -- > -=] Ford [=- > > "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) > has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com > - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford > 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com This should greatly help the number of Unix sites rise to greater than 10. ;-) -- Tom Limoncelli -- tlimonce@drunivac.Bitnet -- limonce@pilot.njin.net Drew University -- Madison, NJ -- 201-408-5389 Standard ACM Regional Contest winner! See you at Disclaim the nationals in Louisville, KY on Feb 21-23! er.
elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (01/21/89)
in article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP>, paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) says: > In article <11280@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > ->It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not > ->intuition, workbench or X, or anything else you've ever seen) is > ->pretty slick. No flames, OK? A non-standard windowing system is > ->better than nothing. Beside, it's slick. VERY fast. > > Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. > There should be two big reasons why they shold use it: > > 1) It is fast becoming the standard Unix windowing system. > > 2) A former Commodore-Amiga employee (Dale Luck) has already X11 > working under AmigaDOS. How about reasons why they should NOT use it: 1) It takes up massive amounts of disk space, and they only have an 80mb drive in their base system. 2) Takes up a lot of memory space, and they only have 4mb of 32-bit RAM. Would cause lots of paging and thrashing. It seems to me that a small, fast windowing environment is a Big Win under these conditions. Very little Unix software assumes any sort of windowing environment, so this is no Big Loss, either. X is fairly fast (though not excessively so), but is far from small. However, I do agree that they should offer it as an option for networking environments. First, they have to implement a networking environment, though! -- Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 Netter A: In Hell they run VMS. Netter B: No. In Hell, they run MS-DOS. And you only get 256k.
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (01/21/89)
In article <15088@cisunx.UUCP> ejkst@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Eric J. Kennedy) writes: >In article <11280@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >>kim@cc-krs.UUCP (Kim Lilliestierna) wrote: >>>Has anybody heard anything about the 2500UX machine. Suposed to >>>come with 68020 and AMIX ( sys V.3)? >> >>It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not > >Any idea whether it allows Unix and AmigaDOS simultaneously, or Unix and >MS-DOS simultaneously? None that they were willing to talk about. The 2500UX was shown here recently; I pressed them about Amiga stuff under AMIX - the current plans don't seem to include it at all, which I found quite disappointing. The notion of source-code compatibility isn't in the cards either as far as I could tell, which is a shame in my view. It's harder to understand what value there is (except "gee-whiz" perhaps) to having a Unix on the Amiga which doesn't take a lot of advantage of the Amiga hardware niceties. Otherwise it's too much "me-too" to be a big hit (or so I think - other opinions?) As a Unix implementation it seems competent, and they've rolled their own windowing user interface as is all the rage these days... Nothing about X, NeWS, Open Look, etc... They have done a super job on text scrolling - *really fast*... "Source code? We're not sure yet..." - folks, let them know about the evils of sourcelessness in Unix... >Eric Kennedy >ejkst@cisunx.UUCP Cheers, -- _ _/\ Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. \`o O| Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu \(")/ BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET ---mm-U-mm--- "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue" - Oliver North
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (01/22/89)
In article <6873@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) writes: ->in article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP>, paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) says: ->> In article <11280@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: ->>>It exists. It works. Has an MMU. The custom windowing system (not ->>>intuition, workbench or X, or anything else you've ever seen) is ->>>pretty slick. No flames, OK? A non-standard windowing system is ->>>better than nothing. Beside, it's slick. VERY fast. ->> ->> Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. ->> There should be two big reasons why they shold use it: ->> ->> 1) It is fast becoming the standard Unix windowing system. ->> ->> 2) A former Commodore-Amiga employee (Dale Luck) has already X11 ->> working under AmigaDOS. -> ->How about reasons why they should NOT use it: -> ->1) It takes up massive amounts of disk space, and they only have an ->80mb drive in their base system. Funny, the X server, fonts, and quite a few clients only take up less than 4 megabytes on my Amiga hard disk (I'm beta testing one that runs under AmigaDOS). ->2) Takes up a lot of memory space, and they only have 4mb of 32-bit ->RAM. Would cause lots of paging and thrashing. Again, the AmigaDOS version will run with only 1 Meg of 16-bit ram with a measly 68000, and I don't see much slow down of the other Amiga tasks I have running. ->It seems to me that a small, fast windowing environment is a Big Win ->under these conditions. Very little Unix software assumes any sort of ->windowing environment, so this is no Big Loss, either. X is fairly ->fast (though not excessively so), but is far from small. It seems to me that Commodore would have been better off in spending the time to see how the could get AmigaDOS and UNIX running at the same time. ->However, I do agree that they should offer it as an option for ->networking environments. First, they have to implement a networking ->environment, though! -> ->-- ->Eric Lee Green ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg -- -+= SAM =+- "the best things in life are free" ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/22/89)
In <8825@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, amiga@athena.mit.edu (MITAUG Staff) writes: > Really???? What kind of tape drive and can I find one for my GVP Controller???? Right now, you can't. The problem is that GVP did not supply a 'SCSI command passthrough' in their driver. This means that it only knows about disk commands, and anything else cannot be communicated to the SCSI bus. They aree, apparently, working on a new driver (third hand hearsay, I don't know this for sure), and this time they have an author who actually knows that there are other things SCSI besides disks, and that you can have more than one drive on a SCSI controller (as opposed to a host adapter). Let's hope they get it right, because other than these two things, they have a decent product. -larry -- Frisbeetarianism: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca or uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) (01/23/89)
In article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP> paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) writes: >Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. My understanding is that Amiga Unix supports the Amiga screens concept. Thus you can have a screen running the Amiga window system, and a screen running X-windows, and a screen running NeWS, and a screen running CMU windows, and and and.... At the moment, Amiga Unix is SysVr3. This does not have a BSD socket library, which X-windows requires. It will take some time to port X-windows to the Amiga. but the hooks are all there. Disclaimer: This information is based on rumors and conjectures heard at the World of Commodore in Toronto, and of course may be complety disjoint with reality. -- C. Harald Koch NTT Systems, Inc., Toronto, Ontario chk@zorac.dciem.dnd.ca, chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu, chk@chkent.UUCP "I give you my phone number. If you worry, call me. I'll make you happy."
hjespers@attcan.UUCP (Hans Jespersen) (01/25/89)
In article <1394@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca> chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) writes: >In article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP> paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) writes: >>Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. > >My understanding is that Amiga Unix supports the Amiga screens concept. Thus >you can have a screen running the Amiga window system, and a screen running >X-windows, and a screen running NeWS, and a screen running CMU windows, and >and and.... .. and a CPU so bogged down it can't run anything else. >At the moment, Amiga Unix is SysVr3. This does not have a BSD socket library, >which X-windows requires. It will take some time to port X-windows to the >Amiga. but the hooks are all there. I'm no BSD guru, but X runs on many SysVr3 machines that (I assume) don't have sockets. Streams is a comparable (in my understanding) product that gives even more functionally than its Berkley counterpart. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Jespersen UUCP: uunet!attcan!hjespers AT&T Canada Inc. or ..!attcan!nebulus!arakis!hans Toronto, Ontario #include <std.disclaimer>
dale@boing.UUCP (Dale Luck) (01/25/89)
In article <1394@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca> chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) writes: >In article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP> paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) writes: >>Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. > >My understanding is that Amiga Unix supports the Amiga screens concept. Thus >you can have a screen running the Amiga window system, and a screen running >X-windows, and a screen running NeWS, and a screen running CMU windows, and >and and.... That is not my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong cbm but, the last I heard the AMIX software only supports one style display. That's 640x200x2 bitplanes. There is no such thing as multiple screens, split screens or any of the other extra graphics features of the original amigados. It is basically a plain Jane Unix port. I don't recall it even being able to support the a2024 monitor. But maybe they did get that fixed and I forgot. >At the moment, Amiga Unix is SysVr3. This does not have a BSD socket library, >which X-windows requires. X does not require a BSD socket library. It just requires more effort if one is not there. You end up rewritting the network code to use SysV Streams instead of BSD sockets. >It will take some time to port X-windows to the Amiga. but the hooks are >all there. I assume you mean X for the 2500UX machine. Yes, because X11 was written really for BSD machines, it will take some time do a port to the SysV world. But it has been done and tapping that experience is what cbm should do. -- Dale Luck GfxBase/Boing, Inc. {uunet!cbmvax|pyramid}!amiga!boing!dale
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (01/25/89)
I may be a bit slow here.... Let me get this straight... the Amiga 2500UX is an amiga 2500 running Amiga unix. but... it can't run AmigaDOS ?!?!?!?! Then what's the point? I can get a 386 based tower system with a monochrome monitor running microport unix for under 3000 bucks. I thought the whole point of the UX machine was allowing the power and flexability of unix while allowing full backwards compatability with older Amiga machines and sofware. or is this the case and I have been just reading the last few messages about the 2500UX wrong?? confused... John Sparks uunet!ukma!corpane!sparks
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (01/25/89)
Gee, Amiga Unix without sockets would be sort of like a car without wheels. I've tinkered with both BSD sockets and Sys V streams and would much rather write code using sockets. Maybe it's just me, left-brained and all... Porting X would be easier if we had sockets. Sockets under Sys V are at least do-able. I have a AT&T Unix PC in addition to my Amiga. Wallangong sells win/tcp for tcp/ip networking on the Unix PC. Win/tcp comes with sockets as an installable driver for the kernel. I don't have win/tcp on my machine, but noticed the support for the sockets (and other bsd-isms) while grepping through the /usr/include stuff. The kernel on the Unix PC is somewhere in between Sys V rel 0 and 1. It seems reasonable to ask for sockets on the Amiga. HP/UX (at least some flavors of it) is Sys V and they have sockets. --Bill wtm@impulse.UUCP ...!lll-winken!scooter!neoucom!impulse!wtm
ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) (01/26/89)
In article <1394@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca> chk@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (C. Harald Koch) writes: >My understanding is that Amiga Unix supports the Amiga screens concept. In article <600@boing.UUCP> dale@boing.UUCP (Dale Luck) writes: >That is not my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong cbm but, the last I >heard the AMIX software only supports one style display. That's 640x200x2 >bitplanes. There is no such thing as multiple screens, split screens or >any of the other extra graphics features of the original amigados. It is >basically a plain Jane Unix port. I don't recall it even being able to support >the a2024 monitor. But maybe they did get that fixed and I forgot. Amix now supports multiple screens, although it's a far cry from graphics.library/intuition (for example, screens can not be dragged). Any graphics modes can be used, and the standard console device supports the A2024 in 1024x800 pixel mode. Unfortunately, the windowing system doesn't support anything other than 640x200, although that will hopefully change soon. The windowing system might not ever support the A2024 hires mode, though, because it's just too bizarre. The windowing system normally uses 3 bitplanes, but most of the colors are for "dropshadows", borders, background, etc.; the actual data area of the window is only one bitplane. The main objectives of supporting multiple screens include allowing multiple windowing systems and mutiple virtual terminals. -- -=] Ford [=- "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com
thomas@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Thomas QA) (01/26/89)
In article <214@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: > I may be a bit slow here.... Let me get this straight... > the Amiga 2500UX is an amiga 2500 running Amiga unix. but... > it can't run AmigaDOS ?!?!?!?! > Of course it can runAmigaDOS. The 2500UX will boot UNIX by default, but the user has the option of which operating system to run. > Then what's the point? I can get a 386 based tower system with a monochrome > monitor running microport unix for under 3000 bucks. The point is you get the best of both worlds... > I thought the whole point of the UX machine was allowing the power and > flexability of unix while allowing full backwards compatability with > older Amiga machines and sofware. It sure is! > or is this the case and I have been just reading the last few messages > about the 2500UX wrong?? > > confused... Hope this helps. > John Sparks > uunet!ukma!corpane!sparks Dave Thomas -- ============================================================================= Dave Thomas COMMODORE AMIGA TEST ENGINEERING // /_ |\/||/_ /_ UUCP ...{allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!thomas \X/ / \| ||\// \ PHONE 215-431-9328 ============================================================================= Opinions expressed are my own...no one else wants them =============================================================================
ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) (01/27/89)
In article <1481@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: >I've tinkered with both BSD sockets and Sys V streams and >would much rather write code using sockets. I agree, the BSD sockets programming model is very nice. But that's really all it is, just a (somewhat TCP-oriented) programming interface to a network service, and the same interface should mostly work with streams. The way that sockets will most likely appear on Amix is in the form of am emulation library, allowing source code written for sockets to use streams. >Wallangong sells win/tcp for tcp/ip networking on the Unix PC. >The kernel on the Unix PC is somewhere in between Sys V rel 0 and 1. The Unix PC kernel is actually somewhere between rel 2 and rel 3, and it has all sorts of hooks built into it for the Wollongong sockets. Rather than build two network systems into the kernel, I think it is much cleaner to implement one general network system which is capable of providing all the services needed by the "sockets" interface. -- -=] Ford [=- "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (01/27/89)
in article <5804@cbmvax.UUCP>, thomas@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Thomas QA) says: > Keywords: amiga-unix amix 2500UX > In article <214@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >> I may be a bit slow here.... Let me get this straight... >> the Amiga 2500UX is an amiga 2500 running Amiga unix. but... >> it can't run AmigaDOS ?!?!?!?! > Of course it can runAmigaDOS. The 2500UX will boot UNIX by default, but > the user has the option of which operating system to run. As a matter of fact, all A2620 boards have the option of autobooting into either Amiga OS or UNIX, this feature being controlled by a PCB jumper (in fact, J304). Now, if there's no UNIX present, you will of course not be able to autoboot into it. No matter the preset, holding down both mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have it on your hard disk. The reason the A2500 UX systems have 4 megs is that the UNIX folks have determined that a 4 meg system is quite nice, while a 2 meg system will page too much, and you really won't be happy with it. Having used some Apollo machines with 1 or 2 megs of real memory, I'd tend to believe this. > Dave Thomas -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
jac@ssibbs.UUCP (James Crotinger) (01/27/89)
In article <37@snll-arpagw.UUCP>, paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) writes: > Why Commodore does not use X as the windowing system I cannot understand. > There should be two big reasons why they shold use it: > > 1) It is fast becoming the standard Unix windowing system. > > 2) A former Commodore-Amiga employee (Dale Luck) has already X11 > working under AmigaDOS. > > -+= SAM =+- Dave Haynie demoed Amix at a local user's group meeting the other night. He said they are committed to getting X running under Amix, but that it is not clear who will do it (obviously they'd like Dale to do it, but that apparently hasn't been settled). Overall I was not that impressed with Amix, though I was very impressed with the A2500. Wish all this UNIX effort was going into 1.4. Sigh. Jim -- Jim Crotinger crotinger%mit.mfenet@nmfecc.arpa
janhen@wn2.sci.kun.nl (Jan Hendrikx) (01/27/89)
In article <600@boing.UUCP>, dale@boing.UUCP (Dale Luck) writes: > That is not my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong cbm but, the last I > heard the AMIX software only supports one style display. That's 640x200x2 > bitplanes. There is no such thing as multiple screens, split screens or If it doesn't even support PAL screens (640x256) I don't think anybody in Europe will buy it ... :-) -Olaf Seibert (using Jan's account)
Bruce_Eric_Bowers@cup.portal.com (01/29/89)
In article <5827@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) says: > No matter the preset, holding down both >mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the >Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have >it on your hard disk. Is this true of any 2500? Does the 68000 still run at 7 MHz? I've been very impressed with the 2500, and I'm saving my pennies to buy one. One of the things that has concerned me was the possibility that some software would not work on a 2500, due to either the slightly different instruction set of the 68020 or to the faster clock speed. (I know, *CORRECTLY WRITTEN* software should run with no problem, but not all software is written correctly :-). If I can choose to run the 2500 on a 7 Mhz 68000, then I'm no longer concerned. I haven't heard of any incompatibility problems with the 2500, but then I haven't heard of many people that have them yet. Anyone with a 2500 care to comment? Thanks!
ditto@cbmvax.UUCP (Michael "Ford" Ditto) (01/30/89)
In article <325@wn2.sci.kun.nl> janhen@wn2.sci.kun.nl (Jan Hendrikx) writes: >If it doesn't even support PAL screens (640x256) I don't think >anybody in Europe will buy it ... It does. -- -=] Ford [=- "The number of Unix installations (In Real Life: Mike Ditto) has grown to 10, with more expected." ford@kenobi.cts.com - The Unix Programmer's Manual, ...!sdcsvax!crash!elgar!ford 2nd Edition, June, 1972. ditto@cbmvax.commodore.com
rsilvers@hawk.ulowell.edu (Robert Silvers) (01/30/89)
>Is this true of any 2500? Does the 68000 still run at 7 MHz? > >I've been very impressed with the 2500, and I'm saving my pennies to buy >one. One of the things that has concerned me was the possibility that >some software would not work on a 2500, due to either the slightly >different instruction set of the 68020 or to the faster clock speed. > >If I can choose to run the 2500 on a 7 Mhz 68000, then I'm no longer >concerned. I haven't heard of any incompatibility problems with the 2500, >but then I haven't heard of many people that have them yet. Anyone with >a 2500 care to comment? Yes, the 68000 still runs at 7 Mhz. I have seen a few programs not run on the 68020, but in 68000 mode, everything works fine. Don't hesitate to buy one because of incompatibility. --Rob. rsilvers@hawk.ulowell.edu _ _ _ __ ___ _ (508) 452-5000 Ex 2233 /_\ |\ /| || //__ /_\ _// \\ ||\/|| || \\// // \\_ "Only Amiga does not make it impossible"
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (01/31/89)
In article <14054@cup.portal.com> Bruce_Eric_Bowers@cup.portal.com writes: >In article <5827@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) says: >> No matter the preset, holding down both >>mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the >>Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have >>it on your hard disk. > >Is this true of any 2500? Does the 68000 still run at 7 MHz? A2500's are based on the A2620 board. All have the boot on 68000 feature, and the 68000 runs at 7.?? Mhz, as usual. When you boot on the 68000, you lose the memory on the '020 card (the whole board is turned off.) -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
jac@ssibbs.UUCP (James Crotinger) (01/31/89)
In article <325@wn2.sci.kun.nl>, janhen@wn2.sci.kun.nl (Jan Hendrikx) writes: > > If it doesn't even support PAL screens (640x256) I don't think > anybody in Europe will buy it ... > > -Olaf Seibert (using Jan's account) Boy, that surprises me. I was under the impression that the main market for this thing was Europe, where System V is apparently pretty popular. Jim -- Jim Crotinger crotinger%mit.mfenet@nmfecc.arpa
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (01/31/89)
In article <5852@cbmvax.UUCP> jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) writes: :In article <14054@cup.portal.com> Bruce_Eric_Bowers@cup.portal.com writes: :>In article <5827@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) says: :>> No matter the preset, holding down both :>>mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the :>>Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have :>>it on your hard disk. :> :>Is this true of any 2500? Does the 68000 still run at 7 MHz? : : A2500's are based on the A2620 board. All have the boot on 68000 :feature, and the 68000 runs at 7.?? Mhz, as usual. When you boot on the :68000, you lose the memory on the '020 card (the whole board is turned off.) : :-- :Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup Excuse me, it's not the first time I ask, but I have not gotten any answer: What's the price of the A2620 board? Of the UX variant with 4MB? Commodore Sweden won't even say the A2620 exists...
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (02/01/89)
In article <5827@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: > > As a matter of fact, all A2620 boards have the option of autobooting into > either Amiga OS or UNIX, this feature being controlled by a PCB jumper > (in fact, J304). Now, if there's no UNIX present, you will of course not > be able to autoboot into it. No matter the preset, holding down both > mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the > Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have > it on your hard disk. > -- > Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" I understand now. You can run either AmigaDos OR Unix. but not both at the same time. what a shame. I mean you have AmigaDos with MSDOS running concurrently, why not Unix running on the 68020, with AmigaDos on the 68000? I realize there are some hardware problems with both unix and amigados trying to grab the same hardware devices. but microport does it with their unix running with dosmerge (up to 4 sessions) running at the same time. when you start up dosmerge, you specify what ports you want to give the dos session and then unix can't use those ports. The file system is compatable between both unix and msdosmerge and so they can share the same drive and directories. AmigaDos is a lot more like unix than MSDOS, so why can't you get AmigaDOS and Unix to work together? AmigaMerge! Unix could run the whole boat with amigados and msdos windows! _______________________________________________________________________________ John Sparks // Amiga | corpane : sparks@corpane a.k.a \X/ UUCP | blitter : john@blitter (preferred; path below) RedHawk ~~~~~~~~~~~~| {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!disk!blitter!john D.R.A.G.O.N.| >> call D.I.S.K. @ 502/968-5401 thru -5406 << Ye Quote: He might say 'this', and then come back later and say 'this', and the new 'this' could cancel out the old 'this'. -- Ronnie (I am really a Muppet) Reagon (Did you ever notice Ronnie never talks when Nancy is drinking?) _______________________________________________________________________________
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (02/01/89)
in article <14054@cup.portal.com>, Bruce_Eric_Bowers@cup.portal.com says: > In article <5827@cbmvax.UUCP>, daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) says: >> No matter the preset, holding down both >>mouse buttons at boot time will get you a menu that lets you select the >>Amiga OS controlled by either the 68020 or the 68000, or UNIX if you have >>it on your hard disk. > Is this true of any 2500? Does the 68000 still run at 7 MHz? Yes, and yes. > I've been very impressed with the 2500, and I'm saving my pennies to buy > one. One of the things that has concerned me was the possibility that > some software would not work on a 2500, due to either the slightly > different instruction set of the 68020 or to the faster clock speed. There are a few programs that don't run; the vast majority do run. You can turn the 68000 on at boot time, as described, to run any non-conformant programs. I've found a better solution, though. First, if it's a commercial program, see if there's a corrected version from the vendor; same with PD programs, though there's probably less of a chance here since most of the PD stuff I've encountered seems to be written in HLLs, which don't as a rule produce incorrect code (some very old one did, but far as I know, not any longer). If the company doesn't support the program, the best solution is to dump it, perhaps flame loudly enough to attract the attention of any other potential buyers, and then get something that works. Because chances are, if they won't fix it to run correctly with the 68020 (all correct 1.2 and 1.3 programs work with the 68020), they probably won't fix any nasty bugs you find now, or other incompatibilites with future operating systems. > If I can choose to run the 2500 on a 7 Mhz 68000, then I'm no longer > concerned. I haven't heard of any incompatibility problems with the 2500, > but then I haven't heard of many people that have them yet. Anyone with > a 2500 care to comment? And while the current 2500 system, being of course based on the A2000+A2620, let you drop back to the 68000, future 32 bit machines won't carry around the 68000. The main reason I put the drop-back-to-68000 mode in the A2620 wasn't really to support broken programs, but to allow folks who develop on the 68020 a real easy way to test their applications on a 68000 machine. Sure beats having to buy an extra A500, or having to yank the A2620. > Thanks! -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
jesup@cbmvax.UUCP (Randell Jesup) (02/03/89)
In article <4288@enea.se> tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) writes: >Excuse me, it's not the first time I ask, but I have not gotten any answer: >What's the price of the A2620 board? Of the UX variant with 4MB? In what country? The prices vary depending on the local sales company, etc. >Commodore Sweden won't even say the A2620 exists... They may not be selling it. It's their decision. Or they may not have ordered any from manufacturing yet. Or something else, I dunno, I'm just a programmer. -- Randell Jesup, Commodore Engineering {uunet|rutgers|allegra}!cbmvax!jesup
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom MKT) (02/04/89)
In article <4288@enea.se> tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) writes:
$Excuse me, it's not the first time I ask, but I have not gotten any answer:
$What's the price of the A2620 board? Of the UX variant with 4MB?
$Commodore Sweden won't even say the A2620 exists...
Product Suggested Retail Price
---------------- ----------------------
A2620 w/ 2Mb RAM $1999.00
A2620 w/ 4Mb RAM $2799.00
I do not believe we've shipped the 4Mb version.
Paul.cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/08/89)
In article <278@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: > I understand now. You can run either AmigaDos OR Unix. but not both > at the same time. what a shame. I mean you have AmigaDos with MSDOS > running concurrently, why not Unix running on the 68020, with > AmigaDos on the 68000? Well, when the '286 board comes out you may be able to run SCO Xenix on that, and then AmigaDOS on the 68000. (Yes Brian, I'm still trying to get you together with one to see if it is possible) If you understood how the 68000 and 68020 interacted via the CPU slot you would realize why it would be difficult to work it that way. On the other hand, UNIX could be trained to keep it's fingers of the lower 512K and it might be possible to run AmigaDOS on the 68020 as a process of the UNIX kernel. Sort of a virtual machine set up. >John Sparks // Amiga | corpane : sparks@corpane Personal opinion here, you have an excessively long and obnoxious signature John. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (02/08/89)
in article <88703@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) says: > In article <278@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >> running concurrently, why not Unix running on the 68020, with >> AmigaDos on the 68000? > Well, when the '286 board comes out you may be able to run SCO Xenix on > that, and then AmigaDOS on the 68000. (Yes Brian, I'm still trying That's what I'm hoping to do with the '286 Bridgeboard, though not with SCO Xenix (Xenix is NASTY... I want something that's at least Sys V.2 compatible, and doesn't cost an arm & a leg). As a bonus, the '286 card is likely to be cheaper than the 68020 board. > If you understood how the 68000 and 68020 interacted via the CPU slot you > would realize why it would be difficult to work it that way. On the The CPU slot is nice as a cheap way of sliding in a 68K-compatible processor to run AmigaDOS. But as a vehicle for Unix, it's somewhat lacking. The ideal setup for Unix would be an '030 based card that sat in an ordinary Zorro slot a' la' the Bridgeboard, with 4mb onboard, that negotiated with the AmigaDOS half for I/O (perhaps via X window system). This would allow you to use any AmigaDOS device without needing a custom Unix driver from the manufacturer. -- | // Eric Lee Green P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 | | // ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg (318)989-9849 | | \X/ >> In Hell you need 4Mb to Multitask << |