a3@mindlink.UUCP (Dave Allen) (02/07/89)
I have been using the QMS 810 for the past 8 months and cannot see having anything less than Postscript output. Although the price is higher than most others in Canada it has a great deal of quality. The new Colour QMS are next on my list to try, but perhaps will have to wait a bit longer. Postscript is a definate advantage! -- RSI-where WEDGES come from // Multi-Tasking is my life! 9651 Alexandra Road // Name: Dave Allen Richmond, B.C. Canada \\ // Phone: (604) 278-6694 - MIND LINK (604) 533-2312 V6X 1C6 \X/ UseNet: uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Dave_Allen
arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (02/08/89)
I have been thinking about getting a laserprinter for my Amiga, and found ads in the Sunday paper for the HP Laserjet II for as low as $1635, and a local store has the Apple Personal Laser for ~$1450 and another advertised an Okidata Laserline 6 for $1350. (When I finish my tax return, I will know if the idea is feasible financially, but I can dream, can't I.) I should explain that I am not a heavy printer user anyway, perhaps I average 10 pages per day. (If I had a better printer, the total would probably creep up; but the point is use would be light.) I am now using a 6 - 7 year old Gemini-10X; and, I realize that a modern dotmatrix printer would be a step up, but if I buy a new printer, I would like one that I would use for the next 6-7 years. 1. What brands of "cheap" laser printers are people using on Amiga's? 2. Were these printers easy to use (i.e. supported in 1.3, did not require cables from Afghanistan, etc.) 3. How important is Postscript for an Amiga user? I mostly use Scribble! and would like to make simple plots (i.e. line drawings, not grey scale). I played around with a macII with an expensive Apple Laserwriter, and found that it was nice to be able to set up the pages on the screen, but I did not find it so great that I would want to spend a lot extra on it. But, maybe I am missing the greatest thing since sliced bread. (What I am getting at is: is ability to expand to Postscript compatibiliy an essential feature for the prudent buyer?) I would be very grateful for any advice. (And grateful to IRS if I have any money left to buy anything.) If anything interesting turns up, I will summarize for the net. Pat Palmer (email: ppalmer@oddjob.uchicago.edu)
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/08/89)
In article <1742@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: > > >3. How important is Postscript for an Amiga user? It'll change your life. >missing the greatest thing since sliced bread. (What I am getting at is: is >ability to expand to Postscript compatibiliy an essential feature for the >prudent buyer?) IMHO, yes. The difference between a PS printer and a ``dumb'' laser is that with a PS printer, there are no limitations. You don't have to download every single font you want to use. You dont have to send it a whole 2 MB bitmap to print a simple graphic (assuming your HP has enough memory in the first place). And of course it'll do things an HP just cant do, like wrap circular text around a cube. Or, in another vein, Paul Heckbert wrote a ray tracer in PostScript because he couldnt stand to see such resources go idle. The drawback is the cost. The cheapest PS printer is the NEC LC-890 for $3k. COme with 35 fonts though, and at $100 per for the equiv. HP fonts you actually come out ahead, I suppose. -- ``Kern letters with a hacksaw'' decwrl!gryphon!richard killer!gryphon!richard elroy!gryphon!richard
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/10/89)
In article <6005@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> (Robert M. Wolff) writes: > Well, I just spoke to CLtd today, and their Laser-X-Press (casiopia > project) is going to be adding a postscript 'device'. It INTERPRETS > a postscript source, turns it into a virtual page, and then may be > edited, clipped from, etc...then can be sent out to the laser printer > in 8 seconds!!! Be careful how you say that, to be perfectly honest you have to make sure that you clearly separate the "8 seconds!!!" from the "INTERPRETS a postscript source". The interpret step may take several minutes. Dumping a megabyte of ram to the printer is only limited by the paper speed across the drum. (At 8 ppm that's 7.5 seconds). >Laser-X-Press is RETAIL $2500...not bad...also, Pagestream will print >directly to the virtual page in memory, Pro-page, city desk (newest ver), >and many others will be supporting the virtual page libraries... >Gonna be REALLY nice... $2500 ? When retail HP LaserJet II's run under $2000 and can run on a 512K system? They might make the same goof Atari did in thinking that You don't mind paying $2500 for the printer and $1500 for the 2 meg ram expansion. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
perley@trub.steinmetz (Donald P Perley) (02/10/89)
In article <11775@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >In article <1742@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: >>3. How important is Postscript for an Amiga user? > >It'll change your life. >And of course it'll do things an HP just cant do, like wrap circular >text around a cube. > >Or, in another vein, Paul Heckbert wrote a ray tracer in PostScript >because he couldnt stand to see such resources go idle. > >The drawback is the cost. The cheapest PS printer is the NEC LC-890 >for $3k. COme with 35 fonts though, and at $100 per for the equiv. >HP fonts you actually come out ahead, I suppose. Adds are starting to appear for postscript interpreters that can drive dumb laser printers. For what a postscript printer costs you could get a laserjet, spend a few hundred more on the software, and still have enough to buy an extra amiga just to drive the printer. If you are doing low volume, skip the extra amiga and get a bubble jet instead of the laser printer.. the total then might be around $1000. PLUS... Then you can print on up to 14 inch wide paper.. How much would THAT cost on a dedicated postscript laser printer? Disclaimers: I haven't actually seen one of these interpreters, and don't even know what it costs (just guessing at a couple hundred). What I know of them comes from network gossip a few months back and an add in the back of the current Amiga World. -don perley
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/11/89)
In article <6005@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> wolff@cs.purdue.EDU (Robert M. Wolff) writes: > >Well, I just spoke to CLtd today, and their Laser-X-Press (casiopia >project) is going to be adding a postscript 'device'. It INTERPRETS >a postscript source, turns it into a virtual page, and then may be >edited, clipped from, etc...then can be sent out to the laser printer >in 8 seconds!!! > >Laser-X-Press is RETAIL $2500...not bad...also, Pagestream will print >directly to the virtual page in memory, Pro-page, city desk (newest ver), >and many others will be supporting the virtual page libraries... > >Gonna be REALLY nice... No, this is not NICE, this is horrible. Sounds like the atari printer. The problems wit this are: 1) For $500 more, you can get a REAL PostScript printer (NEC LC-890) with REAL Postscript, not some disfunctional clone or PD PS interpreter somebody grabbed from comp.sources.misc. What does REAL PS buy you: A) As opposed to the PS clones being foisted on the unsuspecting public with wild abandon, REAL PS will interpret PS correctly. PS gets complicated enough that the idea of this abomination not printing a REAL PS program because of some subtle difference in interpretation of a, for example, statusdist. B) The cheap PS rasterizers adapted from the ones posted to the net just dont support enough featurs to be rmotely useful. Translation: even my simple PS programs cause them to fail. C) With Adobe PS, you get to use: ta da! Adobe fonts. Thats right, there are PostScript fonts, that will work on any PS device, but Adobe PS fonts will only work on Adobe PS printers. Adobe fonts are expensive (none of this `aloha fonts for $12' crap, they're $85 - $385 per TYPEFACE. And for a reason. They work, and they look good even at the smaller (<12 pt) point sizes. Thats the hard part, and is Adobe's most valuable secret. 2) If I read you right, and they are builing the page in memory they are tying up memory, CPU, and time doing something, that for that kind of money, should be done in the printer. $500 just isnt that much of a savings to put up with these imprefections. -- ``I've re-written UNIX from, scratch. God told me to'' - Ed Carp decwrl!gryphon!richard killer!gryphon!richard elroy!gryphon!richard
arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (02/11/89)
In article <89233@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <6005@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> (Robert M. Wolff) writes: >> ....[description of Cltd laser printer not yet released] >$2500 ? When retail HP LaserJet II's run under $2000 and can run on a >512K system? They might make the same goof Atari did in thinking that >You don't mind paying $2500 for the printer and $1500 for the 2 meg >ram expansion. I do not understand whether comparable things are being compared. The HP Laserjet II for under $2000 has only 512k memory; to expand it to postscript capabilty cost another $1500 (roughly). Did Mr. Wolff imply that the $2500 Cltd printer will require less expansion to have postscript capability? From what I have learned so far, it seems impossible to get postscript capability for less than ~$3200. Pat Palmer (email: ppalmer@oddjob.uchicago.edu)
wolff@cs.purdue.EDU (Robert M. Wolff) (02/12/89)
> ...postscript capabilty cost another $1500 (roughly). Did Mr. Wolff imply that > the $2500 Cltd printer will require less expansion to have postscript > capability? From what I have learned so far, it seems impossible to get > postscript capability for less than ~$3200. > > Pat Palmer (email: ppalmer@oddjob.uchicago.edu) > Yes, I did imply that the Cltd printer will require less PRINTER expansion to get postscript capability. If you already have a lot of memory, (i.e. I think 1.5meg is needed -- could be more or less, dont know for sure...sorry) then all you need is the printer. Also, note, in comparing, I believe the $3200 figure above is from mail order...not retail, right? The $2500 number is RETAIL. I believe that it is quite a nice setup... bob -- -=-=-=- Insert Standard Disclaimer Here, Please... -=-=-=- /************* MS-Dos? Me? No, You must be mistaken! *************/
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom MKT) (02/14/89)
In article <1742@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes:
$I have been thinking about getting a laserprinter for my Amiga [...]
$1. What brands of "cheap" laser printers are people using on Amiga's?
Since I work at Commodore I probably get access to more toys than the average
Amiga user. However, I have used matrix, color, HP laser, and now PostScript
Laser and so I have quite a bit of experience as to what you get with each.
Before starting, it's important to note that almost all current laser
printers are 300dpi resolution, so they are all equally CAPABLE of putting
the same stuff on paper. The difference is in HOW an application can
describe a page to the printer - limitations in fonts, does every dot have
to be specified for a line, or is a command available to draw one? Etc.
Non-PostScript
--------------
All non-PostScript printers basically work in one of two modes:
Use the built-in fixed fonts, OR do EVERYTHING in a bitmap and output huge
quantities of data to the printer to achieve good results.
The built-in fonts are usually nice, but FIXED; only certain sizes are
available. They allow cartridges to be plugged in but check that your
software supports those fonts in the cartridge however. Also, the fonts
generally cannot be output in shades of gray, rotated, scaled, etc.
On the other hand though, fonts CAN be downloaded to the HP if you have
more than the normal 512K or memory, and whole page bitmaps can be done
if you have significant amounts of memory (1.5Mb should be enough - you
need 1Mb for 300dpi full page bitmaps.
There are word processing, desktop publishing and font utilities available
for non-PostScript laser printers. I won't be naming names as I cannot
endorse products.
PostScript
----------
PostScript has mathematically defined (outline) fonts, structured graphics,
with the power to scale, rotate, fill, and do other effects. It's a real
language too, not a bunch of codes.
PostScript can be slow however (depending on what you're printing), and the
printers are EXPEN$IVE (typically 2x) relative to non-PostScript lasers.
This is due to the memory requirements, and the licensing of the PostScript
interpreter and fonts from Adobe.
As opposed to non-PostScript printers, PostScript is slow for text, and
fast for (non-bitmap) graphics. Slow is relative though, and lasers are
often perceived as slow because nothing appears to happen (except a blinking
light) until a beautiful page slides out. A matrix printer though makes
enough noise and shows the product bit by bit to make you realize it's
DOING something and therefore seems quicker.
As for Non-PostScript, there are word processing, desktop publishing and
font utilities available for PostScript laser printers.
Comments
--------
1. If I were to get non-PostScript, I would make sure to get additional memory.
2. Output to PostScript printers is generally more flexible (scaling, rotation,
etc.)
3. (Last, but most importantly) It depends upon what kinds of things you want
to produce. I would say that you don't need PostScript to do memos, uniform
(not elaborate) documents, and reports. PostScript can do some sophisticated
things, but you may not need those capabilities.
$2. Were these printers easy to use (i.e. supported in 1.3, did not require
$cables from Afghanistan, etc.)
Hook-up on all is simple (serial or parallel). PostScript is not supported
directly within our operating system, but more and more software is supporting
it, and PostScript printers usually always come with built-in HP emulation
(and others) anyway which IS supported in 1.3.
$3. How important is Postscript for an Amiga user? I mostly use Scribble! and
$would like to make simple plots (i.e. line drawings, not grey scale). ...
See above. It depends.
$(What I am getting at is: is ability to expand to Postscript compatibiliy
$an essential feature for the prudent buyer?)
See above. It depends.
Sorry I'm vague, but I wouldn't want to tell you how to spend your money.
PostScript is powerful and expensive, but you may not need it.
Being a car nut, I often make car analogies: You may not need a sports car
which is powerful and expensive if all you want to do is get from A to B.
I hope this helps.
Paul.
Disclaimer: the purpose of this message is to provide information and not to
endorse any products in any way.richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/14/89)
Paul H wrote a very good article Re: PostScript vs. Non-PoscScript
laser printers.
The bottom line really is, the PS printer is definitly more expensive
and you definitly get what you pay for.
The thing he didnt mention is that if you want to do some serious
typesetting, you can take the very same PostScript file that make your
PS printer work and mail/UUCP/xmodem them to a service bureau
and get linotronic phototypesetter output. At 1250 or 2540 dpi.
The difference between Linotronic output and Laser output
is like the difference betwee Laser output and (9-pin) Dot
matrix output.
--
"Hay hay, mye mye... rock an roll wil nevurr dye..."
richard@gryphon.COM gryphon!richard@elroy.jpl.NASA.GOV
decwrl!gryphon!richard killer!gryphon!richard ames!elroy!gryphon!richard