brianm@sco.COM (Brian Moffet) (07/20/88)
[ Line eaters gain waits ]
Anyone know of rumors about serial cards for the Amiga
[5,10,20]00 computers? I would think that with a solidly
built serial expansion card, one could actually make the
Amiga into a multiuser machine, at least for a good bulletin
board.
--
Brian Moffet brianm@sco.com {uunet,decvax!microsof}!sco!brianm
The opinions expressed are not quite clear and have no relation to my employer.
'Evil Geniuses for a Better Tommorrow!'sterling@dasys1.UUCP (Sterling Brown) (09/12/88)
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\===========================\ The Human /===========================/
\ Sterling L. Brown........ \ Opperating / "Don't blame me for my /
\ \ System / spelling!.... Blame /
\ AmigaDos, UNIX, MSDOS \=============/ my Spellchecker!"-me /
\=================\ /=================/
// A Serious \ CIS: 71101,616 / "O give me a home
_ // Amiga \ USENET: sterling@dasys1 / where the serial
\X/ Programmer \=========================/ ports rome!"rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) (09/13/88)
__ _ ___ __ _ _ |_| |_ \_/ < | |_ |_> | | |\ | / _ ___ ___ ___ | | |__ | _> | |__ | \ |__ | | \| \_/ _ __ ___ _ _ _ __ \_/ / \ | | / | | |_| /\ \ / |_ | / \ < |_> |_ /\ |/ | \_/ \_/ |__ |__ | | /~~\ \/ |__ | \_/ _> | |__ /~~\ |\ _ _ ___ __ _ _ | | |_> | / ` /\ |\ | / | |_| |_ /\ |_> \_/ / \ | | \_/ | o | \_, /~~\ | \| | | | |__ /~~\ | \ | \_/ \_/ o , / | _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ |_ o _ \. | <_' | > || <> | <_ <> || | | || |_| <_' | | | | > / /' | | _ o | _ _ _ o __ _ _ o _ _ _ |_ _ | <> | |< > / | <_ <_| || | ||| <_| <_| | || <_' | | | <_' _| _ _ _ _ _| _ _ _ |_ _ _ _| o _| _ |_ \/\/ <_| > | <_' <_| || <_' | |_> <_| || <_| \/\/ | <_| | | | o ___ _ __ // _ _| _ _ // | o _ | o | <> ||| |~ <_| <_| <_' \/ <_' |~ <> |< | <_ |< | /
david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- One of the vertebrae) (09/19/88)
Serial ports? That's not *nearly* as pressing a need as the 2090a!
There already *is* a serial port on the machine, but there isn't alread
an autobooting disk controller.
--
<---- David Herron -- One of the MMDF guys <david@ms.uky.edu>
<---- ska: David le casse\*' {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET
<---- What does the phrase "Don't work too hard"
<---- have to do with the decline of the american 'work ethic'?charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/20/88)
> Serial ports? That's not *nearly* as pressing a need as the 2090a! > There already *is* a serial port on the machine, but there isn't alread > an autobooting disk controller. > David Herron -- One of the MMDF guys <david@ms.uky.edu> There IS an autobooting disk controller: the floppy. I want to connect an X-10 home controller to my amiga. The controller talks to a serial port. That should be a transparent background task. When I am talking to another computer using the ONLY serial port, it would not be acceptable for the X10 task to either interrupt my session or to be interrupted by it. One serial port is not adequate. Charles Brown charles%hpcvca@hplabs.hp.com
ncreed@ndsuvax.UUCP (Walter Reed) (09/20/88)
In article <10263@s.ms.uky.edu> david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- One of the vertebrae) writes: >Serial ports? That's not *nearly* as pressing a need as the 2090a! >There already *is* a serial port on the machine, but there isn't alread >an autobooting disk controller. Well, the 2090A was announced, so it shouldn't be a problem. However, there is a problem with the machine having A serial port. There is only one. I, for one, need 4 of the buggers - One is NOT enough. No, I cannot use a switch box. I KNOW other people need them too. You can get around not having autoboot hard drives, but you can't get around the need for more ports. So, all we need is some company to make them. I wasn't thinking of ASDG's twinX that you throw some other port into either. I was thinking more on the lines of a 4/8 port smart board (with DMA of course.) -- ------ Walter Reed ------ + uunet!ndsuvax!ncreed or ncreed@ndsuvax.BITNET "There's no point in being + or ncreed@plains.NoDak.edu grown up if you can't be + childish sometimes!" Dr. Who + USnAIL: 925 9th Ave W. West Fargo, ND 58078
whitcomb@unicorn.Berkeley.EDU (Gregg Whitcomb) (09/21/88)
> I want to connect an X-10 home controller to my amiga. The controller > talks to a serial port. That should be a transparent background task. > > When I am talking to another computer using the ONLY serial port, it > would not be acceptable for the X10 task to either interrupt my > session or to be interrupted by it. One serial port is not adequate. > Charles Brown charles%hpcvca@hplabs.hp.com I only know of one X-10 controller for PCs, and it is a stand-alone box which only needs to be programmed once then forgotten (at least until you want to reprogram your schedule). I can't understand why you want a background task for this purpose. Of course, using a switch box is not ideal, but more financially practical. On the subject of the X-10 system, does anyone know of a device which can read events from the line (and thus allow a program to keep track of what's going on in the house). No doubt, you would want to have a dedicated serial line for such a device. -Gregg Whitcomb whitcomb@ic.berkeley.edu
charles@hpcvca.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/22/88)
> I only know of one X-10 controller for PCs, and it is a stand-alone > box which only needs to be programmed once then forgotten (at least > until you want to reprogram your schedule). I can't understand why > you want a background task for this purpose. That describes what I have. Its scheduler is limited to a week (as I recall). I want to have longer schedules. I would also like to have my A1000 read the clock in the X-10 controller. > Of course, using a switch box is not ideal, but more financially practical. > -Gregg Whitcomb whitcomb@ic.berkeley.edu I will not say what I think of switch boxes in polite company. I was also wanting to have a third serial line permanently connected to my other computer. I have since then decided not to do that. Charles Brown
ericb@athertn.Atherton.COM (Eric Black) (09/23/88)
In article <5843@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> whitcomb@unicorn.Berkeley.EDU (Gregg Whitcomb) writes: > >> I want to connect an X-10 home controller to my amiga. The controller >> talks to a serial port. That should be a transparent background task. >> >I only know of one X-10 controller for PCs, and it is a stand-alone box which only needs to be programmed once then forgotten (at least until you want to reprogram your schedule). I can't understand why you want a background task for this purpose. Of course, using a switch box >is not ideal, but more financially practical. > Here's a reason: explicit control NOW. I have various sensors around my house and property -- car detector in the driveway, temperature sensors at top and bottom of the living room with cathedral ceiling, woodstove, and a ceiling fan to mix warm air from the top down to the bottom, and so on. I want to be able to turn lights, fans, various things on and off in response to those sensors, and also manually with the X-10 command modules. I'd much rather interface to the subsonic carrier on the 110VAC line through an RS232 port than, say, opto-isolators simulating buttons on a cannibalized command module, or even worse, directly synthesizing and injecting the command signals on the house wiring. My Amiga is on all the time, 24 hours (hate those impulses running through non-ideal capacitors at power-on, dontcha know). Sounds to me like a reasonable thing to do. >On the subject of the X-10 system, does anyone know of a device which >can read events from the line (and thus allow a program to keep >track of what's going on in the house). No doubt, you would want >to have a dedicated serial line for such a device. > I'd like that very much, too, for reasons that should now be obvious. Some time ago I wrote to BSR to suggest that they consider modifying the units so that when activated locally they sent a special command code with their unit ID out on the wire. A suitably smart eavesdropper would be able to know that the unit is now ON, manually, but other units would not respond by turning themselves on (although that would be quite handy in some situations, too). I also suggested that some remote sensing devices might be handy as well, using the same carrier-current technology, such as remote thermometers and the like. A command module just like their timer controller with eavesdropping capability and programmed differently could then poll for remote temperature, remote on/off status, and so on, and display it on the readout. I don't know which round bin they filed my suggestions in... :-) >-Gregg Whitcomb whitcomb@ic.berkeley.edu -- Eric Black "Garbage in, Gospel out" Atherton Technology, 1333 Bordeaux Dr., Sunnyvale, CA, 94089 UUCP: {sun,decwrl,hpda,pyramid}!athertn!ericb Domainist: ericb@Atherton.COM
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/27/88)
I can think of lots of things I would have been happy to give up if only I could have had another serial port... up to and including the parallel port, Extra Halfbright, and the 7 finger trick (yow, now we're getting serious!). Where are the Amiga-based multiuser BBSes? Where do I stick my MIDI box and modem and debugging terminal (get a switcher, ya bum!)? -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (10/02/88)
Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) wrote: ...I can think of lots of things I would have been happy to give up if only ...I could have had another serial port... up to and including the parallel ...port, Extra Halfbright, and the 7 finger trick (yow, now we're getting ...serious!). Where are the Amiga-based multiuser BBSes? Where do I stick ...my MIDI box and modem and debugging terminal (get a switcher, ya bum!)? ...-- ... Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Well, this is probably stupid, but I am curious as to what the results of this might be... If you wanted to put a box on the outside of your Amiga that spoke serial data (such as the X-10 box) couldn't you use one of those parallel to serial converter boxes. I know that you can't just run VT100 and have it talk out the parallel port, but would it be that hard to change it? (take out things like Setting the baud.) If nothing else you could write a program that would send all the things you needed sent to the X-10 out the parallel port to be converted into serial. That should work. Actually, if you got really ambitious you could sit down and write a serial device like thing that spoke to the parallel port. Then you write a little program based on MWB that would take the next call to OpenDevice (serial.dev) and route that to the semi-serial.device. That way you could run your BBS on one serial port (the funky one) and then run any application through the normal serial port. (Of course BBS's like to change speed of the port so that probably isn't the greatest of applications for the semi-serial port, but maybe you could run UUCP on that port (if all others systems run at a single specific speed) (is it called CCCP in the USSR?:') Hopefully all this noise that went on this last year will result in more serial ports for the Amiga sometime soon. As I remember it we left it with Bryce and Randell were going to be hired into Commodore and they would get to fight out how to write the new Serial.Device stuff to support multiple ports. I do kind of wonder how that is coming... "He who dies with the most toys... is dead" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu ...ucbvax!mica!spencer BBS: (415)222-9416 (no longer working for Infinity Software..."Work? I don't work for anyone")
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/02/88)
In article <14909@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, spencer@eris.berkeley.edu (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) writes: > If you wanted to put a box on the outside of your Amiga that spoke serial > data (such as the X-10 box) couldn't you use one of those parallel to serial > converter boxes. I know that you can't just run VT100 and have it talk out > the parallel port, but would it be that hard to change it? Yes, I could go in by hand and change every program I have the source to to use either parallel.device or serial.device. The point I'm making is that since the machine didn't come with two serial ports commercial software doesn't have an option for 'device=serial.device, unit=1'. These programs (Deluxe Music, say, or Diga) don't speak parallel. That still doesn't give me the 4 or 8 lines I want to run a multiuser BBS, either. > Actually, if you got really ambitious you could sit down and write a serial > device like thing that spoke to the parallel port. Then you write a little > program based on MWB that would take the next call to OpenDevice (serial.dev) > and route that to the semi-serial.device. Yes, there was a discussion on how to handle multiple serial port cards (that still haven't come out) that would depend on the standard driver software for that card doing gross things like this. Better would be to completely replace serial.device with one that looks in some standard place (ENV:serial, say) for an alternative to serinternal.device, and then open serinternal.device or whatever other device it found there. This is one of the areas where Commodore seems to be slightly blind. > Bryce and Randell were going to be hired into Commodore and they would get > to fight out how to write the new Serial.Device stuff to support multiple > ports. I do kind of wonder how that is coming... I really hope they don't end up with one of the kludges that were being discussed at that time. Any of them are only a interim solution until the software that supports 'device=serial.device, port=0' comes out. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Have you hugged U your wolf today?
spencer%eris.berkeley.edu@UDEL.EDU (10/04/88)
Received: from CUNYVM by CUNYVM.BITNET (Mailer X2.00) with BSMTP id 3692; Sat, 01 Oct 88 23:00:30 EDT Received: from UDEL.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.1) with TCP; Sat, 01 Oct 88 23:00:27 EDT Received: from Louie.UDEL.EDU by Louie.UDEL.EDU id ab03980; 1 Oct 88 15:38 EDT Received: from USENET by Louie.UDEL.EDU id aa03968; 1 Oct 88 15:37 EDT From: "Randal m. Spencer [RmS]" <spencer@eris.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Serial Ports Message-ID: <14909@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 1 Oct 88 18:33:20 GMT Organization: Not really very well organized right now. To: amiga-relay@UDEL.EDU Sender: amiga-relay-request@UDEL.EDU Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) wrote: ..I can think of lots of things I would have been happy to give up if only ..I could have had another serial port... up to and including the parallel ..port, Extra Halfbright, and the 7 finger trick (yow, now we're getting ..serious!). Where are the Amiga-based multiuser BBSes? Where do I stick ..my MIDI box and modem and debugging terminal (get a switcher, ya bum!)? ..-- .. Peter da Silva `-_-' peter@sugar.uu.net Well, this is probably stupid, but I am curious as to what the results of this might be... If you wanted to put a box on the outside of your Amiga that spoke serial data (such as the X-10 box) couldn't you use one of those parallel to serial converter boxes. I know that you can't just run VT100 and have it talk out the parallel port, but would it be that hard to change it? (take out things like Setting the baud.) If nothing else you could write a program that would send all the things you needed sent to the X-10 out the parallel port to be converted into serial. That should work. Actually, if you got really ambitious you could sit down and write a serial device like thing that spoke to the parallel port. Then you write a little program based on MWB that would take the next call to OpenDevice (serial.dev) and route that to the semi-serial.device. That way you could run your BBS on one serial port (the funky one) and then run any application through the normal serial port. (Of course BBS's like to change speed of the port so that probably isn't the greatest of applications for the semi-serial port, but maybe you could run UUCP on that port (if all others systems run at a single specific speed) (is it called CCCP in the USSR?:') Hopefully all this noise that went on this last year will result in more serial ports for the Amiga sometime soon. As I remember it we left it with Bryce and Randell were going to be hired into Commodore and they would get to fight out how to write the new Serial.Device stuff to support multiple ports. I do kind of wonder how that is coming... "He who dies with the most toys... is dead" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu ...ucbvax!mica!spencer BBS: (415)222-9416 (no longer working for Infinity Software..."Work? I don't work for anyone")
deraadt@dataspan.UUCP (Theo De Raadt) (10/04/88)
In article <10263@s.ms.uky.edu>, david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- One of the vertebrae) writes: > Serial ports? That's not *nearly* as pressing a need as the 2090a! > There already *is* a serial port on the machine, but there isn't alread > an autobooting disk controller. I wonder what is going to happen to all these people who have two card cages for their 500's and 1000's, and who want an autobooting hard drive, a serial card, and don't want to throw away their 2M or so of memory... they are going to be stuck trying to decide which way they are going to go - maybe this is the time for a manufacturer to create a card which has space on board to add a serial board, or and a connector which goes to special card which attaches somewhere else - I think a piggy back would be nice, harddrive controller with a serial card built on or something. I am sorta wondering if anyone has more than one serial port on their Amiga? ANYONE??? What did you do? <tdr. -- _____ _ ----------------------------------- / / / / \ _ _ /_/_ Theo de Raadt: (403) 289-4620 / /_ _ ___ __/_ /__/ _\ _\ __/ / DATASPAN / / /</_(_) (_/</_/ \_(_/\(_/\(_/_(_/ ..!alberta!calgary!dataspan!deraadt
kenk@algedi.UUCP (Ken Koster) (01/25/89)
Now that I have a shiny new 2000 to replace my venerable 3 1/2 year old 1000 ( It retired to a cushy life as the first "real computer" for my SO :-) ), I have a renewed interest in adding more serial ports. Where are they ? What's Holding them up? Hardware design ? Serial Port guidelines from CA? Software? (probably :-) ) Seriously if there are any manufacturers planning on introducing multiport boards of any kind I'd appreciate hearing from you. betatest? I'll do betatest. I'll do alphatest. I'll do any....(whoops got carried away there) I can see it now: SER1: 2400 UUCP SER2: 1200 packet radio SER3: 4800 packet radio SER4: max'd out baud - DNET to the 1000 SER5: 9600 HF radio remote SER6: spare (gotta have a spare :-) ) Thanks Ken Koster ...pilchuck!algedi!kenk USMAIL - Sundstrand Data Control, MS24 - 15001 N.E. 36 ST. - P.O. Box 97001 Redmond, WA 98073-9701 Work Phone - (206) 885-8221
hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) (01/27/89)
In article <171@algedi.UUCP> kenk@algedi.UUCP (Ken Koster) writes:
$
$ Now that I have a shiny new 2000 to replace my venerable 3 1/2 year old
$ 1000 ( It retired to a cushy life as the first "real computer" for my
$ SO :-) ), I have a renewed interest in adding more serial ports.
$
$ Where are they ?
$
$Thanks
Commercial --- HIT "n" now or hold your flames!
You're welcome!
NES Inc., the people who brought out the A2000 Proto Board that also plugs
into the PC-AT connectors, have designed an 8 Port Serial Board for the
A2000 and it is in layout as I write this. This board out of the box will
support 110 thru 38400 baud on all 8 ports. Port count is determined in
the MountList, looking at unused ports is a waste of system resources.
Port baud rates are adjustable on the fly. Supports Tx and Rx independent
baud rates. It supports RTS, CTS, DSR, and DTR -or- CD. The 8 Port Serial
board is designed to allow furure expansion (by adding one or more additional
8 Port boards into your A2000.) so that a BBS say can have up to as many
as 24 active 1200/2400 baud sessions going at a time. Pricing is TBD and
store shelf date, target, is June 89.
Hans Hansen
(503) 648-7135 6-10pm PST / and weekends 10am - 10pm
$
$Ken Koster ...pilchuck!algedi!kenk
$Work Phone - (206) 885-8221
Hans Hansen hah@inteloa.intel.comkim@uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (01/28/89)
In article <4092@omepd.UUCP>, hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) writes: > NES Inc., the people who brought out the A2000 Proto Board that also plugs > into the PC-AT connectors, have designed an 8 Port Serial Board for the > A2000 and it is in layout as I write this. Great!!! It is about time *someone* came out with what people have been asking for for 18 months or better! Have you defined the s/w interface (programmer's model) in sufficient detail to tell people how to get to the ports and or program them. If so, think you could post this info? I know Tony would like to support multiple ports in the next release of VT100, and it'd be nice to know what, if anything, needs to go in the code now. /kim -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,uunet,oliveb,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 BIX: kdevaughn GEnie: K.DEVAUGHN CIS: 76535,25
bader+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Bader) (01/28/89)
hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) writes: >... > Port count is determined in > the MountList, looking at unused ports is a waste of system resources. >... What does this mean? I certainly hope you can use varying #'s of ports without incurring a huge penalty for ports that aren't being used, but are available for immediate use... Could you expand on this? -Miles
jbwaters@bsu-cs.UUCP (J. Brian Waters) (01/28/89)
In article <4092@omepd.UUCP>, hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) writes: > baud rates. It supports RTS, CTS, DSR, and DTR -or- CD. The 8 Port Serial > board is designed to allow furure expansion (by adding one or more additional > 8 Port boards into your A2000.) so that a BBS say can have up to as many DTR or CD? That makes running a BBS from it a little hard then it need be. The best way to hang up on people that exceed thier time limit is to drop DTR on them.... of course you also want to detect CD so you know when someone hangs up on you. I would hate to be forced into using the modem command set to hang up or be forced to use timeouts to try and detect someone hangup on the BBS. In other words, I hope it is not giving me a choice between DTR or CD but rather lets me have both. -- Brian Waters <backbone>!{iuvax|pur-ee}!bsu-cs!jbwaters uunet!---/
aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) (01/29/89)
In article <00BeJ17XgK1010Vrxr6@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> kim@uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) writes: >In article <4092@omepd.UUCP>, hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) writes: >> NES Inc., the people who brought out the A2000 Proto Board that also plugs >> into the PC-AT connectors, have designed an 8 Port Serial Board for the >> A2000 and it is in layout as I write this. > >Great!!! It is about time *someone* came out with what people have been >asking for for 18 months or better! I fully agree! That's why we decided to come out with serial ports recently, and we're shipping now! NES stated that they're expecting a June release. >Have you defined the s/w interface (programmer's model) in sufficient >detail to tell people how to get to the ports and or program them. If Marco Papa has implemented his multi-serial support in the new A-Talk III by allowing the user to specify the device name and unit number to use when opening up a serial port. This is very easy for the programmer to do, and Bryce at Commodore has stated approval of this method at this time. Our software interface is compatible with the standard amiga serial.device, and I expect others to do the same, since we already have a standard for the machine, and this allows all present programs to work with very minor modifications. -- Aaron Avery, ASDG Inc. "A mime is a terrible thing to waste." -- Robin Williams ARPA: madnix!aaron@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!aaron
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (01/30/89)
ASDG has it (multiple serial ports with fully integrated software support)
NOW.
--
Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc.
ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque!
UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perrymkd@mtunh.ATT.COM (Mark Darby) (01/31/89)
In article <433@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: > ASDG has it (multiple serial ports with fully integrated software support) > NOW. Ok, Perry, now comes the $64,000 question... How much is it? I haven't seen any ads for the board, so that would be of interest to us. Is is usable by itself or do you require something else along with it (hardware wise), like your Twin-X(?) interface card? If it does work as an independent card, does this board work with an A500 which has an expansion box added on such as Bills' Board, Expansion Technologies' Tool Box (an A2000 2 slot expansion cage), or Pacific Peripherals' SubSystem 500? (I certainly hope so...that's the environment I want to work under :-) ) > > -- > Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. > > ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! > UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry Mark K. Darby AT&T Bell Laboratories AT&T: (201)957-2706 200 Laurel Ave. uucp:..!att!mtunh!mkd Middletown, NJ 07748
scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) (01/31/89)
In article <433@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: >ASDG has it (multiple serial ports with fully integrated software support) >NOW. >Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. you guys sure do advertise heavily when it costs you nothing.... --Scotty
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (02/01/89)
In article <645@mtunh.ATT.COM> mkd@mtunh.ATT.COM (Mark Darby) writes: > >Ok, Perry, now comes the $64,000 question... >How much is it? I haven't seen any ads for the board, so that would be Our serial port solution is based upon the Twin-X general purpose i/o card. Twin-X itself lists for $329. The SBX-Serial/2 module lists for $199. The SBX-Serial/4 module (four ports per module) lists for $299. Dealer prices will, of course, vary. All internal cables and brackets are included in the price of the serial modules. >such as Bills' Board, Expansion Technologies' Tool Box (an A2000 2 slot >expansion cage), or Pacific Peripherals' SubSystem 500? >Mark K. Darby I have no idea. There's nothing special about the requirement of our Twin-X board. It uses a completely standard Zorro II bus interface and has never shown caused a problem in any of the systems we've tried out at all the various trade shows we've been to (when borrowing a computer, there's no telling what's going to be in it!). -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry
kim@uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) (02/01/89)
In article <431@madnix.UUCP>, aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) writes: > In article <00BeJ17XgK1010Vrxr6@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> kim@uts.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn) writes: > >In article <4092@omepd.UUCP>, hah@inteloa.intel.com (Hans A. Hansen) writes: > >> NES Inc., the people who brought out the A2000 Proto Board that also plugs > >> into the PC-AT connectors, have designed an 8 Port Serial Board for the > >> A2000 and it is in layout as I write this. > > > >Great!!! It is about time *someone* came out with what people have been > >asking for for 18 months or better! > > I fully agree! That's why we decided to come out with serial ports recently, > and we're shipping now! NES stated that they're expecting a June release. And in another article <whose ID you could care less about> Perry Kivolowitz writes: > ASDG has it (multiple serial ports with fully integrated software support) > NOW. Are you refering to the TwinX board? As I understand it, it will support a maximum of FOUR ports, and then only after purchasing two RS-232 modules. Or does ASDG have a new product out ...? The TwinX board is an interesting concept, especially if one needs to talk to some of the less popular interfaces. On the other hand, since it is a general purpose interface board, you have to add extra cost modules to it to get it to talk to anything, right? Though NES hasn't set a price for their 8-port board, I'll be surprised if it is as much as a TwinX set up for 4 ports. Generality is great ... but you have to pay for it somewhere. TANSTAAFL ... BTW, is a module available (NOW) that'll give me some extra PARALLEL ports? Peter da Silva aside, some of us would like more of these as well. For things like image digitizers, etc. Too bad the SIOPI never made it out of the chute (along with the SDPI and 20XI). As I recall, it was supposed to add 4 serial and 2 parallel ports. Just about a perfect setup ... > >Have you defined the s/w interface (programmer's model) in sufficient > >detail to tell people how to get to the ports and or program them. If > > Marco Papa has implemented his multi-serial support in the new A-Talk III by > allowing the user to specify the device name and unit number to use when opening > up a serial port. This is very easy for the programmer to do, and Bryce at > Commodore has stated approval of this method at this time. > Our software interface is compatible with the standard amiga serial.device, > and I expect others to do the same, since we already have a standard for > the machine, and this allows all present programs to work with very minor > modifications. Yeah, I'd just like to hear it from NES about *their* product. I understand it, there were some changes/extensions/refinements made to the serial port "standard" that were discussed at the Euero DevCon? Can anyone confirm/deney this, and if that's true, can anyone summarize? BTW, I'm still waiting for my 1988 US DevCon notes, so I can read what has been proposed in that forum. I just got a nice letter from Brenda Billings (Hi, Bren!) in CATS saying that it would be delayed a couple more weeks. Hopefully, any changes that came out of the Euro DevCon will be included ... /kim -- UUCP: kim@amdahl.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,uunet,oliveb,ames}!amdahl!kim DDD: 408-746-8462 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 BIX: kdevaughn GEnie: K.DEVAUGHN CIS: 76535,25
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (02/01/89)
In article <164@ziggy.UUCP> scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) writes: >In article <433@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: >>ASDG has it (multiple serial ports with fully integrated software support) >>Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. >you guys sure do advertise heavily when it costs you nothing.... Oh, come on. I am glad to see this sort of information come out, and I think ASDG's contributions to the Amiga community more than make up for whatever some of these messages cost (how many people out there use VD0: and haven't paid?) sheesh. ron
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (02/02/89)
Kim,
Your facts are all basically correct concerning the serial port solution
provided by the Twin-X General Purpose I/O board. Let me clarify a few
points:
The list prices are:
Twin-X board (supports 2 modules): $329
SBX-Serial/2 (dual serial ports): $199
SBX-Serial/4 (quad serial ports): $299 * you might have missed this one.
There's also
SBX-GPIB (ieee-488 interface): $199
You might have missed the information on the SBX-Serial/4 which will
allow up to eight serial ports on one Twin-X card.
I agree with you that the general approach of the Twin-X concept comes
with some added cost. Our goal was to be able to make the Amiga available
to many hundreds of different input/output modules with one broad stroke.
It is true that while providing the capability for adding rather esoteric
i/o functions, we've caused the price of basic i/o functions to be a little
higher (do keep in mind the average discount a dealer gives so the prices
are actually a little lower).
Wouldn't it be nice though to be able to combine an esoteric function like
a VPI interface (Versatec Plotter Interface) with a 16 bit a to d converter
for that otherwise impossible application your boss may have just handed
you? Or maybe you need a stepper motor controller and a 32K static battery
backed up ram module. Or......
It is no secret that ASDG has always provided industrial grade equipment (as
opposed to consumer grade). And, we've never pretended our hardware products
were the cheapest, either.
It is also no secret that we aren't consumer oriented when it comes to hardware
(software is a different side of our business altogether). We
certainly don't entertain any false hopes of going one on one with consumer
oriented producers competing solely on a basis of price. Especially with a white
bread type function as serial ports.
But then... we do have the advantage of being first you see. And another
advantage of high reliability and performance. So there'll be a large
amount of consumer sales of even this product. When these advantages are
gone (perhaps in 6 to 12 months) we still have our primary customer who
requires some extra serial ports AND an i/o function that only Twin-X
can provide.
So, in summary...sure our serial port solution might be higher in cost
than some. But then again...its available now...and it works.
See ya.
Perry
--
Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc.
ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque!
UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perrypapa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (02/03/89)
In article <459@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: >It is no secret that ASDG has always provided industrial grade equipment (as >opposed to consumer grade). And, we've never pretended our hardware products >were the cheapest, either. All true. >But then... we do have the advantage of being first you see. And another >advantage of high reliability and performance. So there'll be a large ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ >amount of consumer sales of even this product. When these advantages are >gone (perhaps in 6 to 12 months) we still have our primary customer who >requires some extra serial ports AND an i/o function that only Twin-X >can provide. >So, in summary...sure our serial port solution might be higher in cost >than some. But then again...its available now...and it works. For the past month or so, I've had the fortune to work with Perry & Co., to finalize and test out support in A-Talk III for the ASDG TwinX-based multi-serial card. After testing their card with our software, I can definitely attest to the high-reliability and performance of the ASDG multi-serial card. I have been able to obtain speeds of over 1200 char/sec with ZMODEM streaming and over 1800 char/sec. with YMODEM-g using a Us Robotics Courier HST and a similarly equipped 9600 baud BBS. I've also been able to reliably use kermit at 38,400 baud, currently not possible with the built-in serial device. I've been an happy customer of ASDG (I own an 8MI) and the performance and workmanship of the TwinX-based serial card is definitely of the same standards as all previous ASDG products. We'll be happy to put any other multi-serial card through the same stress testing we put the ASDG one, if offered the opportunity. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo Schwab [quoting Rick Unland] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu (02/04/89)
In article <459@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes... > >It is no secret that ASDG has always provided industrial grade equipment (as >opposed to consumer grade). And, we've never pretended our hardware products >were the cheapest, either. > >It is also no secret that we aren't consumer oriented when it comes to hardware >(software is a different side of our business altogether). We >certainly don't entertain any false hopes of going one on one with consumer >oriented producers competing solely on a basis of price. Especially with a white >bread type function as serial ports. > If you choose not to compete with "consumer oriented producers" then you must at least offer your professional clientele added reliability and service. Those customers should be more concerned than the average consumer over the fact that your serial drivers do not conform to the standard being promulgated by CBM. They will have to rely on your hardware to function with whatever new brand X software that might be needed in their work. Are you planning to provide a patch to each such program, or do you intend to support Commodore's standard as it emerges? >But then... we do have the advantage of being first you see. And another >advantage of high reliability and performance. ... See above. -- Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)
iphwk%MTSUNIX1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Bill Kinnersley) (02/04/89)
In article <5496@super.ORG> rminnich@metropolis.UUCP (Ronald G Minnich) writes: : :In article <164@ziggy.UUCP> scotty@ziggy.UUCP (Scott Drysdale) writes: :>you guys [ASDG] sure do advertise heavily when it costs you nothing.... : :I think ASDG's contributions to the Amiga community more than make :up for whatever some of these messages cost (how many people out there :use VD0: and haven't paid?) :sheesh. :ron Both network commercialism and piracy are reprehensible practices. Other than that I see no connection. Surely no one would suggest that either one could be used as a reason to condone the other. -- --Bill Kinnersley Physics Department Montana State University Bozeman, MT 59717 INTERNET: iphwk@terra.oscs.montana.edu BITNET: IPHWK@MTSUNIX1
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (02/04/89)
In article <1164@hub.ucsb.edu>, hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu writes: > Are you planning to provide > a patch to each such program, or do you intend to support Commodore's standard > as it emerges? Any program that uses the serial port should already be written to allow for multiple device names and port numbers. Commodore's "standard" is a kludge to allow for old broken programs that don't do this. I hope that developers are as put off by this as I am and boycott it. -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' Hackercorp. ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.uu.net 'U`
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (02/06/89)
I see. For years everyone complained about the absence of serial port
support on the Amiga. Now that there is a shipping product providing
that support, everyone is complaining that it doesn't conform to some
projected but not yet introduced standard.
Well, what's a hardware vendor to do? :-)
I can respond to your points in two ways:
1. Of course we will supply driver software which will conform to the
1.4 standards when 1.4 comes out (in oh, say, n years). Until then
ASDG can provide multiple serial support that works with your
existing software. After that point, ASDG will provide the upgrade
needed for conformity.
2. What makes you think ASDG is not involved in the actual creation
of the new standards anyway? And, what makes you think that our
present support is not already compatible?
Amazing. If a message on Usenet from a CBM representative is enough to
sour a market, there's absolutely no reason for any third party to
participate.
I hope this point is well taken.
--
Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc.
ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque!
UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry
CIS: 76004,1765 (what was that about ``giggling teenagers''?) hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu (02/07/89)
In article <466@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes... >I can respond to your points in two ways: > >1. Of course we will supply driver software which will conform to the > 1.4 standards when 1.4 comes out (in oh, say, n years). Until then > ASDG can provide multiple serial support that works with your > existing software. After that point, ASDG will provide the upgrade > needed for conformity. "Good answer," as they used to say on Family Fued. 8-) >2. What makes you think ASDG is not involved in the actual creation > of the new standards anyway? And, what makes you think that our > present support is not already compatible? > The fact that the description you posted of your approach to multiple serial ports was at variance with the description of Commodore's scheme posted by Bryce Nesbitt. Here is how Bryce describes how to get old applications to use the new driver: > o Old applications that ask for the serial port will be given > the "default" port. Using the Preferences tool, the user will > be able to set the default to any valid port. Now here is your explanation of how to do the same thing with siosbx.device: >1. Find your favorite compiled program making use of serial.device. >2. Load this file into CEDPro. Do a search and replace of serial.device with > siosbx.device >3. Enjoy. > >Of course, the short form limits you to using port 0 unless you are good at >locating a push of 0 in the OpenDevice call. Which approach do you prefer, really? "Mine," I hear you say, "it works now." Good answer again, but don't you sense the potential for chaos in all this? It's not just ASDG that's working on their own drivers to handle multiple serial ports. You've said yourself you aren't going after the consumer market. Who's serial driver will win the popularity contest, FUBAR inc's? FUBAR indeed! Don't misunderstand me. I primarily blame Commodore for the chaos. >Amazing. If a message on Usenet from a CBM representative is enough to >sour a market, there's absolutely no reason for any third party to >participate. > >I hope this point is well taken. I'm not sure it is. What do you mean by this? Surely you won't take your marbles and go home? 8-) -- Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)
hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu (02/08/89)
In article <466@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes... >I can respond to your points in two ways: > >1. Of course we will supply driver software which will conform to the > 1.4 standards when 1.4 comes out (in oh, say, n years). Until then > ASDG can provide multiple serial support that works with your > existing software. After that point, ASDG will provide the upgrade > needed for conformity. "Good answer," as they used to say on Family Fued. 8-) >2. What makes you think ASDG is not involved in the actual creation > of the new standards anyway? And, what makes you think that our > present support is not already compatible? > The fact that the description you posted of your approach to multiple serial ports was at variance with the description of Commodore's scheme posted by Bryce Nesbitt. Here is how Bryce describes how to get old applications to use the new driver: > o Old applications that ask for the serial port will be given > the "default" port. Using the Preferences tool, the user will > be able to set the default to any valid port. Now here is your explanation of how to do the same thing with siosbx.device: >1. Find your favorite compiled program making use of serial.device. >2. Load this file into CEDPro. Do a search and replace of serial.device with > siosbx.device >3. Enjoy. > >Of course, the short form limits you to using port 0 unless you are good at >locating a push of 0 in the OpenDevice call. Which approach do you prefer, really? "Mine," I hear you say, "it works now." Good answer again, but don't you sense the potential for chaos in all this? It's not just ASDG that's working on their own drivers to handle multiple serial ports. You've said yourself you aren't going after the consumer market. Who's serial driver will win the popularity contest, FUBAR inc's? How will you coexist with their driver? How will they coexist with yours? FUBAR indeed! >Amazing. If a message on Usenet from a CBM representative is enough to >sour a market, there's absolutely no reason for any third party to >participate. > >I hope this point is well taken. The potential for chaos would exist whether or not Commodore posted a description of their contribution to it. The problem is not the dissemination of information on usenet, but the late introduction of a standard by Commodore. CBM should not concentrate on being more circumspect in their postings, they should try to be more timely in their product introductions. -- Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO "I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)
mkd@mtunh.ATT.COM (Mark Darby) (02/09/89)
In article <450@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: > In article <645@mtunh.ATT.COM> mkd@mtunh.ATT.COM (Mark Darby) writes: > > [Question regarding whether the multi-serialport implementation works with an Amiga 500 and an expansion cage...] > >such as Bills' Board, Expansion Technologies' Tool Box (an A2000 2 slot > >expansion cage), or Pacific Peripherals' SubSystem 500? > >Mark K. Darby > > I have no idea. There's nothing special about the requirement of our Twin-X > board. It uses a completely standard Zorro II bus interface and has never > shown caused a problem in any of the systems we've tried out at all the Then I suppose my question should be stated as such: The Zorro II bus interface is a 100-pin interface while the expansion connector for the A500 is 86-pin(correct me if I am wrong). Does the twin-x board use any one the bus lines available in the zorroII(i.e. A2000) bus interface which may not be (is not) available on the A500? Have you ever tested your boards on any A500 based equipment? It's not totally unreasonable to expect that A500 owners want at least some limited expansion capability. I expect that an A500 user who wants expansion capability would only want it to support one or two particular applications as opposed to having multiple ( >2 ) applications like that possible with the A2000's internal expansion bus and slots. It's great that you are first out on the market with this capability. I just hope you haven't ignored the A500 owners in doing so. ;-) Mark K. Darby AT&T Bell Laboratories AT&T: (201)957-2706 200 Laurel Ave. uucp:..!att!mtunh!mkd Middletown, NJ 07748
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (02/10/89)
OK Howard, you've got some good points. The fact is, however, that ASDG *is*
involved in discussions of future serial port standards and there *is* more
than what meets the eye. (and...so as not to appear as if we have a monopoly
on CBM's ear, there are others involved in the discussion as well)
As we see it, and there's no reason you shouldn't believe this, there won't
be any of the calamitous confusion which you fear. There are some pretty
reasonable minds working in this area and I think you can trust them to
hash things through pretty well.
For example, we've just decided to make guruing if the arp library is not
present a standard part of all serial drivers. There. See? (in case there's
any doubt the preceding *was* a stab at humor, ok).
I restate my earlier claim ``(that we) have a solution today which will not
be incompatible with tomorrows standards.''
Thanks,
Perry
--
Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc.
ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque!
UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry
CIS: 76004,1765 (what was that about ``giggling teenagers''?) perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (02/10/89)
In article <646@mtunh.ATT.COM> mkd@mtunh.ATT.COM (Mark Darby) writes: >The Zorro II bus interface is a 100-pin interface while the expansion connector >for the A500 is 86-pin(correct me if I am wrong). Does the twin-x board >use any one the bus lines available in the zorroII(i.e. A2000) bus interface >which may not be (is not) available on the A500? Have you ever tested your >boards on any A500 based equipment? It's not totally unreasonable to expect Fair questions. The A1000 and the A500 *both* have 86 pin expansion ports. The purpose of the Zorro glue logic is to do what's necessary to make the 86 pins talk on 100 pins. This necessarily includes the synthesis of some new signals. As I said, that's part of the job of the Zorro glue. In fact, the A2000 passes an 86 pin configuration through the CPU slot after which, zorro glue turns it into the 100 pin standard. I can assure you, though, that some of the Zorro II boxes for the A500 will do a better job than others. Not that I have any information in this area, but I've been around too long in the Amiga hardware market to expect that every vendor will have done *all* their homework. As for Twin-X. We routinely test *all* of our A2000 products on A2000's, A500's, and A1000's. On the A1000 and A500 we use a full Zorro Mini-Rack-D A1000 card rack with its sides hack-sawed off. Which leads me to the following: We're clearing out our A1000 inventory: While supplies last: 2M or 8M (was $399 and $499) are each $250. Mini-Rack-C (was $195) now $100. Mini-Rack-D (was $325) now $200. Thanks Perry -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ARPA: madnix!perry@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry CIS: 76004,1765 (what was that about ``giggling teenagers''?)
rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) (02/11/89)
>We're clearing out our A1000 inventory: While supplies last: > >2M or 8M (was $399 and $499) are each $250. >Mini-Rack-C (was $195) now $100. >Mini-Rack-D (was $325) now $200. Does anyone know things about the above Hardware, such as: What are the specs, of the above, For the Ram, is it auto config? Does it require one of the racks/ or is it on the bus? I was especially interested in the Racks, I assume they are Zorro expansion for the A1000, but how many slots, what kind of power supply (if any) Zorro I or II etc. Do either have passthrough? +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Disclaimer: Me? Post That, impossible I never post anything... | | TypetoYouLater(Everyone); --> "functional Good bye".... | | Rick Golembiewski [ Pronunciation is half the Battle, spelling the other] | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu (02/19/89)
(Repeat posting of an earlier version of a message Perry K. has already
responded to deleted)
ARRRGH! That message must have hung around hub's spool directory for two
weeks!! I apologize for the repeat posting, but the system I'm getting my
NNTP feed from has been acting strangely. I wonder how many more of my
aborted messages have been dumped on the net recently?
--
Howard Owen, Computer Systems Manager internet: hbo@nobbs.ucsb.edu
Physics Computer Services BITNET: HBO@SBITP.BITNET
University of California, Santa Barbara HEPNET/SPAN: SBPHY::HBO
"I am not a pay TV service!" 805-961-8366 (work)