arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (02/20/89)
I am very grateful to all who have provided information to me about laser printers. What I decided is that I will have to get a Deskjet type printer because it can do what I need and - and I can afford it. But, after reaching this decision, another question came up: what about color? I was surprised to that the HP Paintjet cost less than $250 more than the Deskjet. I know the resolution is poorer - 180dpi vs 300dpi - and the local dealers do not stock the Paintjet, so I cannot look at any output. At present, I do not make any use of color myself, but my kids enjoy Dpaint etc. So, if I can meet my needs for Deskjet type printing and add color capability for only 30% additional cost, I would go for it. 1. Are there other significant differences in the capabilities of the two printers? 2. How well does the Paintjet work? (Is there some reason why no one seems to stock them such as they less reliable mechanically or something?) 3. Does the resolution look noticebly poorer for text? 4. I have noticed good things on the net from time to time about the Xerox 4020 color printer. Does anyone have experience to compare the 4020 with the Paintjet? 5. Are there other color inkjet type printers that I should look at? (Assuming I can find any in stock around here.) After working through my income tax, my upper limit for expenditure on a printer is $1000. Thanks for having the patience to read through this long winded question. Pat Palmer (email: ppalmer@oddjob.uchicago.edu)
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/21/89)
In article <1931@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: > >1. Are there other significant differences in the capabilities of the two >printers? No. >2. How well does the Paintjet work? (Is there some reason why no one >seems to stock them such as they less reliable mechanically or something?) Quite well. (no) >3. Does the resolution look noticebly poorer for text? No, it's pretty good for text. >4. I have noticed good things on the net from time to time about the >Xerox 4020 color printer. Does anyone have experience to compare >the 4020 with the Paintjet? I prefer the HP over the xerox because of the finer dot pitch. They are both about equally off from ideal colour, the xerox on the cyan side, and the hp on the yellow side. >5. Are there other color inkjet type printers that I should look at? >(Assuming I can find any in stock around here.) After working through >my income tax, my upper limit for expenditure on a printer is $1000. The one that I really like is the Tektronix 4692. Beautiful colours. I think it's at least $1500, maybe more. You don't see them much though. -- Lotus Super Seven Series III. Too fast to race. BYTE computer graphics photo layout cancelled. Too many Amiga entries. richard@gryphon.COM decwrl!gryphon!richard gryphon!richard@elroy.jpl.NASA.GOV
c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Vince Lee) (02/22/89)
In article <1931@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: > >1. Are there other significant differences in the capabilities of the two >printers? [Paintjet and Deskjet] Mainly just the resolution. >2. How well does the Paintjet work? (Is there some reason why no one >seems to stock them such as they less reliable mechanically or something?) It works just fine. I think its just that most people have PC's and few PC owners have had positive enough experiences with color to justify the price of a color printer. >3. Does the resolution look noticebly poorer for text? Yes. It's still great though. Ya gotta see it and judge for yourself. You probably might not want to destop publish on a paintjet. >4. I have noticed good things on the net from time to time about the >Xerox 4020 color printer. Does anyone have experience to compare >the 4020 with the Paintjet? A Xerox has more saturated colors (sometimes too saturated) but the ink tends to be kinda easy to rub off. Also, the colors are sometimes too bright, resulting in goofy flesh tones. The Paintjet is 180dpi and the Xerox is 120dpi. The Xerox is slow, and text is VERY slow compared to the 200cps NLQ of the paintjet. Both printers use expensive paper. I think the Xerox paper feels funny. On the other hand, you can refill a xerox with airbrush watercolors but you have to buy HP's $35 ink cartridges. >5. Are there other color inkjet type printers that I should look at? >(Assuming I can find any in stock around here.) After working through >my income tax, my upper limit for expenditure on a printer is $1000. Not in my opinion.
c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Vince Lee) (02/22/89)
In article <12357@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: > >The one that I really like is the Tektronix 4692. Beautiful colours. >I think it's at least $1500, maybe more. You don't see them much though. If its that wonderful printer I saw awhile back, I believe $8000 is more accurate, with about $1.50 cost per page.
daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) (02/23/89)
In article <10205@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Vince Lee) writes: >In article <12357@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >> >>The one that I really like is the Tektronix 4692. Beautiful colours. >>I think it's at least $1500, maybe more. You don't see them much though. > >If its that wonderful printer I saw awhile back, I believe $8000 is more >accurate, with about $1.50 cost per page. There seems to be some confusion as to various model numbers, features and price. Here is a list of the Tektronix printers I'm aware of. Name Price Type ---- ----- ---- Tektronix_4692 ? ink-jet, paper rotates on a cylinder Tektronix_4696 $1500 ink-jet, looks exactly like a Xerox_4020 121x120 and psuedo 242x240 dpi Tektronix_4693D $8000+ thermal transfer, 300x300 dpi Tektronix_4693DX $8000+ thermal transfer, 300x300 dpi
jonathan@jvc.UUCP (Jonathan Hue) (02/23/89)
In article <10205@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Vince Lee) writes: > In article <12357@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: > > > >The one that I really like is the Tektronix 4692. Beautiful colours. > >I think it's at least $1500, maybe more. You don't see them much though. > > If its that wonderful printer I saw awhile back, I believe $8000 is more > accurate, with about $1.50 cost per page. From the '88 Tek catalog, since my memory fails me (really bad considering I've used all three of these printers!) : The 4692 lists for $7795 with an RS-232 interface, and is a 154 dpi color inkjet printer. This thing has been around forever. The 4693 lists for $7795 with a parallel interface, and is a 300 dpi color thermal printer. This is probably the one Vince saw. $1.50 a page seems a little excessive. The 4696 lists for $1795 with an RS-232 interface, and is a 120 dpi color inkjet printer. You can add rasterizers, RGB video, and multiplexer options to most Tek printers. The best color printer I know of (I'm talking about things that print on paper, so I'm ignoring film recorders and color proofers, even those that use Poloroid instant proofing film) is the JVC color printer, which is a 300 dpi continuous tone thermal printer. We never need to halftone or dither since we have 256 density levels per pixel at 300 dpi. You *rarely* see these, there was one at SIGGRAPH in '87 in the Quantel booth (with a Dai Nippon label slapped on it). Price? About $50K to OEMs. Most people are floored when they see the output of this thing. Takes about 34MB for an A-size print. The best color inkjet printer I know of is the IRIS (the company in MA, not the computer from SGI). I don't know the specs of their latest model, the last one I saw was 240 dpi, with about 8 levels of density, achieved by printing multiple dots on top of each other. I think these were around $20K-$30K. -Jonathan Hue uunet!jvc!jonathan
yuan@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Yuan 'Hacker' Chang) (02/23/89)
|In article <1931@tank.uchicago.edu> arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: |4. I have noticed good things on the net from time to time about the |Xerox 4020 color printer. Does anyone have experience to compare |the 4020 with the Paintjet? In article <10203@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Vince Lee) writes: > >A Xerox has more saturated colors (sometimes too saturated) but the >ink tends to be kinda easy to rub off. Also, the colors are sometimes >too bright, resulting in goofy flesh tones. The Paintjet is 180dpi and >the Xerox is 120dpi. I should mention also that the PaintJet's colors fade after about 3-5 month in the sun/under flourecent bulbs. The blue is especially susceptible to fading... I have no experience with the Xerox though... -- Yuan Chang "What can go wrong, did" UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!yuan ARPA: uhccux!yuan@nosc.MIL "Wouldn't you like to INTERNET: yuan@uhccux.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU be an _A_m_i_g_o_i_d too?!?"
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (02/23/89)
In article <1931@tank.uchicago.edu>, arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: > > But, after reaching this decision, another question came up: what > about color? I was surprised to that the HP Paintjet cost less than > $250 more than the Deskjet. I know the resolution is poorer - 180dpi > vs 300dpi - and the local dealers do not stock the Paintjet, so I > cannot look at any output. I have a HP paintjet here at work and am planning on taking it home soon to try out on my amiga. I will send you some copies of the output if you want. Just Email me your US Mail address. > > At present, I do not make any use of color myself, but my kids enjoy > Dpaint etc. So, if I can meet my needs for Deskjet type printing and add > color capability for only 30% additional cost, I would go for it. > [stuff deleted for space] > 5. Are there other color inkjet type printers that I should look at? > (Assuming I can find any in stock around here.) After working through > my income tax, my upper limit for expenditure on a printer is $1000. If you just want a general purpose color ink-jet printer for the kids, I recommend the Quadram Quadjet, or Canon Pj1080A (both are the same printer with slightly different ROMS). The output is 640 dots per page, But it is significantly better than the okimate 20 or Star Rainbow. I paid 200 dollars for mine. So with this option you could get the Desk Jet and the Quadram. Have your cake and eat it too. I am willing to send you copies of the Quadram's output also. It is great for graphics but lousy for text. -- John Sparks // Amiga | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks \X/ UUCP | >> call D.I.S.K. @ 502/968-5401 thru 5406 << As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error.
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (02/24/89)
As a side note in this thread... I was a bit bored while I was printing
out something for my wife and decided to try an experiment on my DeskJet.
I took a copy of the document I had just printed and fed it back into the
DeskJet and printed the same page. The results, just a darker copy which seemed
to be perfectly registered from the first pass. Pretty good registration for a
single sheet feed and no tractors.
Just a piece of trivia that I thought I would pass on.
Montyrichard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/24/89)
In article <6056@cbmvax.UUCP> daveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Berezowski) writes: >In article <10205@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c152-cb@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Vince Lee) writes: >>In article <12357@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >>> >>>The one that I really like is the Tektronix 4692. Beautiful colours. >>>I think it's at least $1500, maybe more. You don't see them much though. >> >>If its that wonderful printer I saw awhile back, I believe $8000 is more >>accurate, with about $1.50 cost per page. > > There seems to be some confusion as to various model numbers, >features and price. Here is a list of the Tektronix printers I'm aware of. > >Name Price Type >---- ----- ---- >Tektronix_4692 ? ink-jet, paper rotates on a cylinder >Tektronix_4696 $1500 ink-jet, looks exactly like a Xerox_4020 Yeah, thats the one. >Tektronix_4693D $8000+ thermal transfer, 300x300 dpi >Tektronix_4693DX $8000+ thermal transfer, 300x300 dpi I've never liked colour thermal dye transfer printouts. If you fold or scratch the picture, you lose pigment and are left with white space. Plus the pigments are put down in such a manner that they dont overlap, which can sometimes leave white space between scan lines. Of course this varies between printer to printer. The CalComp is about the worst in this respectm the Toshiba TN-5440 is about the best. It's basically how accurate the stepper motors are in moving the paper. The paper/ink combination in ink jet printers causes the inl to smear a bit so you don't get whitespace. (try using paper not meant for inkjets, and you'll get LOTS of whitespace). Of course inkjets have another problem too, the pigments fade with exposure to light. I've heard 6 mos. in indirect sunlight will pretty much fade an image, but I keep my good printouts in plastic protective covers in a binder in a bookcase where it doesnt get much light (if any), and after 2 1/2 years they havnt faded that I can tell. -- Lotus Super Seven Series III. Too fast to race. BYTE computer graphics photo layout cancelled. Too many Amiga entries. richard@gryphon.COM decwrl!gryphon!richard gryphon!richard@elroy.jpl.NASA.GOV
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) (02/24/89)
In article <3321@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> yuan@uhccux.UUCP (Yuan 'Hacker' Chang) writes: > I should mention also that the PaintJet's colors fade after about > 3-5 month in the sun/under flourecent bulbs. The blue is especially > susceptible to fading... I have no experience with the Xerox though... > Yuan Chang "What can go wrong, did" Safe to say they're using organic dyes, all of which will `bleach' out in the presence of Ultra-Violet light. A UV blocking clear plastic cover sheet would help lengthen the life of the colors for window displays.
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom MKT) (02/24/89)
In article <317@jvc.UUCP> jonathan@jvc.UUCP (Jonathan Hue) writes:
$The best color inkjet printer I know of is the IRIS (the company in
$MA, not the computer from SGI). I don't know the specs of their latest
$model, the last one I saw was 240 dpi, with about 8 levels of density,
$achieved by printing multiple dots on top of each other. I think these
$were around $20K-$30K.
$
$-Jonathan Hue uunet!jvc!jonathan
I think your last name is great considering the context. :-)
Anyway, I too have seen the IRIS and have sample outputs that I tell
people beforehand they won't believe and of course they say "yeah
sure, more hype..." - but then they see it -- the jaw drops, they
move into the light and stare closer at the page. Usually a
"holy ...." or "wow" drops from their lips.
The IRIS can print on standard paper, acetate, cloth, or even sandpaper
(this from their brochure). It's 240 or 300dpi with 32 spot sizes
allowing effectively for instant and perfect half toning. It really
has to be seen to be believed.
The prices I got from them did range ($15K - 75K), however, for an
advertising agency for example, this would soon pay for itself.
The model I've seen does up to 34" x 44" prints (yes it is kinda
huge), but they're going to be coming out with smaller ones I think.
Paul.
Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and not necessarily those of
my employer.hgm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) (02/28/89)
In article <379@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >If you just want a general purpose color ink-jet printer for the kids, >I recommend the Quadram Quadjet, or Canon Pj1080A >I paid 200 dollars for mine. >John Sparks // Amiga | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks Assuming this was not a one-shot deal, like the DAK liquidation of Quadram Quadjets that occured a little over a year ago, where can I find one at this price? It doesn't seem to be a very common printer, although I've seen it's cousins (the Canon and the IBM Colorjet). I'm currently looking for a deal on a color inkjet printer. I've heard that Xerox was selling refurbished Diablo C150's not too long ago. The Xerox 4020 is what I'd really like to have, but it is way out of my league financially. I just can't seem to justify spending more on a printer than I did on my car. ;-) Any leads appreciated. -- ---------------- hgm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu "Everything is a reaction" netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet
simon@cheshire (Thor Simon) (02/28/89)
How about the Citizen Tribute series? I have a 124, which has currently unused (by me) options availiable for color and Epson LQ series compatibility (it's 24 pin). I know the 224 is Epson compatible right out of the box, and I suspect it has color too. I know that with the Epson and Color packages, the 124 is LQ 2500? 3500? compatible. I thought that was kinda neat, because i'd priced one of those monsters at $1500 or thereabouts while I was looking for a good 24 pin printer. I got my 124 for $400 from those consummate ripoff artists at Montgomery Grant, and actually, if you go in their store, they don't squeeze you too badly, though I didn't buy their $50 parallel cable... !! :-> The color option costs $100 from them, you can doubtless get it cheaper elsewhere, and I've been having trouble finding the Epson card, but Citizen is supposed to call me back today and tell me where in the NYC area has it. The 224 is probably cheaper, since it's all in one box and is a closed system (the 124 can be compatible with lotsa other stuff, like PostScript -if- they ever finish the job) so if it has color, i'd buy that