elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (02/06/89)
My brother is currently laying out PC boards using Schema. He'd like to buy an Amiga 2000, because it's a much nicer machine than an AT clone, but if there's no equivalent for the Amiga he's sort of at a crossroads -- will he buy a 80386-based machine, or an Amiga 2000 with an AT bridgeboard? So: I need to know what CAD & PCB layout programs are available. He preferrably would like to draw schematics, then lay out PC boards based upon those schematics, in an integrated way similiar to Schema (which apparently generates "netlists" from the schematics). He'd preferrably like to be able to import and export to Schema format (Schema seems to be the most popular program for this sort of stuff in the MSDOS world). Does such a program exist? He's not particularly interested in simple PC board layout programs with pins on .100 centers and primitive or non-existent autorouters... he just finished scrapping such a program on the AT (crumpling the disk up & throwing it in the trash, actually), because it does not meet his needs at ALL (huge PC boards 2ft x 18inches, sometimes, weird spacing at other times). -- | // Eric Lee Green P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 | | // ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg (318)989-9849 | | \X/ >> In Hell you need 4Mb to Multitask << |
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (02/12/89)
From article <7055@killer.DALLAS.TX.US:, by elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green):
: My brother is currently laying out PC boards using Schema. He'd like
: to buy an Amiga 2000, because it's a much nicer machine than an AT
: clone, but if there's no equivalent for the Amiga he's sort of at a
: crossroads -- will he buy a 80386-based machine, or an Amiga 2000 with
: an AT bridgeboard?
:
: So: I need to know what CAD & PCB layout programs are available. He
: preferrably would like to draw schematics, then lay out PC boards
: based upon those schematics, in an integrated way similiar to Schema
: (which apparently generates "netlists" from the schematics). He'd
: preferrably like to be able to import and export to Schema format
: (Schema seems to be the most popular program for this sort of stuff in
: the MSDOS world). Does such a program exist?
I'm using Pro-Board and Pro-Net for our PCB layout. There were a
couple of fairly good articles about these two programs in Sentry magazine
recently. (Pro-Net about July, Pro-Board in the latest issue...) They are
easily the best of this type of program for the Amiga, but may be too
limited for his uses. I've never seen a Schema netlist, so I don't know if
these are compatible. You are limited a bit in Pro-Net as to what you use
as primitives when building devices, and there is no provision for placing
'generic gates' that have the packages and pin numbers assigned to them
during routing. But other than that, the program does pretty much all that
I've asked it to.
Pro-Board allows boards in size of up to 30" by 30", but I tend to
work on the Zorro II size or smaller (13x5). You are limited to four layers,
but I've had some success with doing six layers by routing on two different
boards with the same pad master. You are limited to 12 mil traces though, and
I haven't found any way around that. (BTW, Dave, if you are listening, you
*can* create a 84 pin PLCC socket. Use the repeat function for all horizontal
rows and start with a fresh data library...)
There is a demo version of both Pro-Board and Pro-Net available from
Prolific (I'm afraid I don't have their number here, but they advertise...)
and he might take a look at that.
: He's not particularly interested in simple PC board layout programs
: with pins on .100 centers and primitive or non-existent autorouters...
: he just finished scrapping such a program on the AT (crumpling the
: disk up & throwing it in the trash, actually), because it does not
: meet his needs at ALL (huge PC boards 2ft x 18inches, sometimes, weird
: spacing at other times).
You can get down to .001 accuracy in Pro-Board, but sacrifice
quite a bit of system memory... I'd say the autorouter is OK, but not
as good as it could be. You still have to manually point to starting and
ending points on the line.
: --
: | // Eric Lee Green P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 |
: | // ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg (318)989-9849 |
: | \X/ :: In Hell you need 4Mb to Multitask << |
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
...tektronix!sequent!blowpig!billsey
Creative Microsystems Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 684-9300 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (02/16/89)
in article <1370@agora.UUCP>, billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) says: > (BTW, Dave, if you are listening, you *can* create a 84 pin PLCC socket. > Use the repeat function for all horizontal rows and start with a fresh data > library...) Another something they should have put in the manuals! And also, does that really give you a PLCC with the correct pinout? It sounds like it would come out a bit strange. In any event, it amounts to STATIC limits, which may be just fine for a PC, but have no place in an Amiga program. In talking with one of our Schema users here, it seems that Pro-Net compares pretty well. Each has a feature or two the other doesn't. The netlist results can be compatible, in that Schema comes with some programs in BASIC that generate netlists in different formats, one of which is the Calay compatible format that Pro-Net generates. > -Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (03/04/89)
From article <5983@cbmvax.UUCP:, by daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie):
: in article <1370@agora.UUCP:, billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) says:
:
:: (BTW, Dave, if you are listening, you *can* create a 84 pin PLCC socket.
:: Use the repeat function for all horizontal rows and start with a fresh data
:: library...)
:
: Another something they should have put in the manuals! And also, does that
: really give you a PLCC with the correct pinout? It sounds like it would
: come out a bit strange. In any event, it amounts to STATIC limits, which
: may be just fine for a PC, but have no place in an Amiga program.
I certainly agree with you here! I can't think of many good reasons
why he would put any limit on device size/complexity, as long as there's memory
to support it. (BTW, the pinout is fine... You just have to add the pin
numbers manually on the side...) The impression I get from working with Pro-
Board from v.1.2 through v.2.0 is that the programmer doesn't understand the
Amiga file system very well, but is learning. His 'workarounds' for extra
speed could more easily be employed using buffered directories, rather than
those little custom file directory blocks. That would also allow for easier
merging of different data disks. He's doen a much better job there in Pro-Net.
One thing I've asked him for (other than 8 mil traces and 6 layers...)
is the ability to merge Pro-Board device library files. I hate having to
recreate an eight pin circular mini DIN, just because I've already created a
part I don't want to loose... Maybe he'll have a utility in the next release.
: In talking with one of our Schema users here, it seems that Pro-Net compares
: pretty well. Each has a feature or two the other doesn't. The netlist
: results can be compatible, in that Schema comes with some programs in BASIC
: that generate netlists in different formats, one of which is the Calay
: compatible format that Pro-Net generates.
There's no doubt the Pro-Net/Pro-Board combo is the best thing out for
the Amiga. It compares favorably with most I*M software I've seen in the
price range... But there is definate room for improvement...
: Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests"
: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy
: Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
...tektronix!sequent!blowpig!billsey
Creative Microsystems Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 691-2552 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842