BPJ0%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (Bin) (03/01/89)
Any comments, suggestions or flames on LOGICWORKS???
ksp@anuck.UUCP (p.s.kasten) (03/01/89)
In article <9834@louie.udel.EDU>, BPJ0%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (Bin) writes: > Any comments, suggestions or flames on LOGICWORKS??? Since someone asked, I'll give you my feelings about it. Don't buy it. When version 1.0 came out, I was told that it was not really a complete product, but could be had for $100. A future upgrade to 2.0 would cost $100. A new purchase of 2.0 would be $200, so it made sense to at least get a jump on using the product since it would cost the same either way. I was disappointed in 1.0, but I was warned by Capilano that I might be. It wasted RAM (didn't return it) every time it was run. The logic devices library was neither complete nor extensible. It didn't have a file requester (it forced you to remember the name and enter it into a string gadget -- I HATE those!). The circuit to be simulated is always live: This feature means that you can view the outputs of the ciruit at all times. Nice idea, but there should be a way to turn it off (otherwise, it just slows down the rest of your system). Although you could pause the timing display, if memory serves, LogicWorks was still calculating the status of the system. Three windows were opened, in 1.0, when you ran LW -- circuit, timing and Debug. Oh yes, actually I think there was a fourth window -- the stupid tiny window that some startup routines open for console I/O. These four windows all opened on the Workbench screen. I could've lived with most of these limitations if the device library was more complete. It contained some basic gates (NANDs, ANDs, ORs, etc.), a counter (not LS16x or LS19x compatible), a mux (not really compatible with any standard LS component), a FF (ditto), and a few other things. You couldn't redefine, or create devices. So I ended up just putting it away. I anxiously awaited 2.0. I called Capilano several times. A first they told me it was a few months away. Then I was told that they had no plans on doing an upgrade since the AMIGA market wasn't strong enough. Next, I got a flyer telling me it was available! I ordered it. It's almost just as bad as 1.0. They use arp.library to provide a file requester. They allow you to build your own devices, but you do this by building upon devices already there. They also have included some new devices -- including several microprocessors. When I read that, I was very interested. However, their microprocessors aren't simulated -- they are just there for including in your drawing. What I hoped for was a way to simulate RAM, a micro, etc. All of the other limitations (except for the lack of a debug window) still exist. So I ended up putting it away. I am gearing up writing my own. I've been sidetracked several times -- currently I am working on YACP (Yet another CAD package) as well as some stuff for the Haitex 3D system. When those are done, I will work on my digital logic simulator. Sorry this was so long. I don't remember all the things that bothered me about the product since I filed it several months ago. I do know that I was extremely disappointed. Twice. phil kasten at&t bell labs !att!mvuxi!ksp ALL OPINIONS EXPRESSED ABOVE ARE MY OWN, AND IN NO WAY REFLECT THOSE OF AT&T's.
primrod@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Don Primrose) (03/02/89)
I have the latest version of Logic Works and haven't had any problems with it as of yet. the earlier versions were a bit buggy but they seem to have ironed those out. It is extremely nice to be able to design a circuit and simulate it at the same time. Not even the Mentor Graphics tools will do this. I have found that I can design and troubleshoot a circuit very quickly using Logic Works, print it out on my printer then input in on the Mentor Graphics workstations we have at school for a more detailed analysis. Some things that I'd like to see on Logic Works: o Circuit zoom feature. o Part rotation. o More detailed timing diagrams. o Larger libraries including PLA's, ROM's etc. If your a student, Logic Works is invaluable. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- = Don Primrose : Oregon State University = = primrod@jacobs.cs.orst.edu = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
jwilson@s.cs.uiuc.edu (03/03/89)
LogicWorks is a nice program (especially 2.0). It is far inferior to profesional workstation design programs I have used (such as dcs for the HP 9000s), but it does the job. The thing that I like most about it is that it simulates your circuit in real-time on the screen for you while you are editing it. Much better than the pages of 1s and 0s I've gotten from academic simulators I have used. Complaints: You can't zoom in or out of the circuit (just horizontal scroll). Wire drawing takes getting used to (can't just specify endpoints). Macro definition requires you to design a graphic symbol for your circuit with a seperate drawing program ( none supplied)! It runs a little slow. Plaudits: The simulator is real nice! It's the only design system I can use at home. It's not very expensive($200) Overall, I'd say it's a good program for designing small circuits (like for EE classes), and playing around. Also useful when you get an idea late at night that just can't wait to be tried out. Jeff Wilson jwilson@s.cs.uiuc.edu University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Rene.Alfonso@f1.n369.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rene Alfonso) (03/06/89)
Yes I have a question. I see tw0 versions of logic works. One sells for
200 dollars another sells for around 60-70 dollars. What is the
difference between the software ? IS the higher price one worth it ?
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address or it will bounce!primrod@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Don Primrose) (03/07/89)
In article <183.241298E0@muadib.FIDONET.ORG> Rene.Alfonso@f1.n369.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rene Alfonso) writes: >Yes I have a question. I see tw0 versions of logic works. One sells for >200 dollars another sells for around 60-70 dollars. What is the >difference between the software ? IS the higher price one worth it ? > The 60-70 dollar version is the old version and is full of bugs and non- implemented features. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- = Don Primrose : Oregon State University = = primrod@jacobs.cs.orst.edu = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-