darin@laic.UUCP (Darin Johnson) (10/18/88)
1 quick question, and then some comments.
When the 1.3 manual states that FFS will cause RAD: not to be bootable,
what do they mean? Does this only mean don't make RAD: be an FFS system,
or will RAD: not be bootable if I have an FFS hard disk?
Comments on 1.3:
Lots of nice things for the novice user (such as shell, newcon, etc.).
Resident is nice too. However, since I already use the PD shell
(with some minor modifications), the 1.3 shell doesn't seem that useful
to me personally. It appears that the only major thing that the shell
has is aliases and resident commands. The command line editing and
history appear to be part of NewCON: (the expander docs make the
distinction between shell and newcon: pretty fuzzy). But, for users
without access to a PD shell, it is a nice improvement of CLI (personally
I would like it if CLI could come up with newcon: by default).
Both Shell and CLI have startup scripts that get automatically called
when they start up.
The resident command is probably another feature I'll never use, simply
because I am using Jim Goodnow's REZ program, which does all the things
resident does, and more (and without any "pure" flags). "resident"
appears too limited for my tastes. The stuff I make resident with
REZ are cd, dir, more, cc, ln, as, emacs, etc., about half of which
probably won't work well with the "resident" command.
The "script" bit is a nice idea, but again, I may never use it, since
I just plain don't use EXECUTE scripts. Now, if the shell were modified
so that all the "if", "failat", etc. programs were made builtin, then
they'd really have something! This would eliminate all the slowdown
you get from EXECUTE scripts, since temporary files wouldn't be needed,
you wouldn't have to load in a program just to do an "if" (or an else).
Since there are a couple of "non-Commodore" products included (such
as FF, NEWCON:), I wondered why they didn't bother getting some other
excellent third party software (REZ, Shell, a better emacs). Then
again, maybe they did try...
On the bright side, the printer drivers are excellent (but there have
been enough reports on those). (anyone have a sample print driver?
I'd like to customize the Epson one for my printer)
FFS is great! I have used this a bit on other machines, but actually
seeing it work on my very own disk really shows the speedup, since I
can compare it to the way it was. I don't have an A2090A or 1.3 ROMS,
so I can't check out autoboot, but reports from friends are favorable.
The documentation is really pretty confusing about autobooting from
RAD: or a hard disk, especially for the novice user. Some of my
favorite pet-peeves as far as CLI commands go, have been fixed up.
The MicroEmacs on the Extras disk is lots better than V1.2
(mouse support), although not as great as I would like.
Preferences now has the ability to go directly into the printer, icon,
and serial setup screens directly (hurrah!). However, when you
exit those screens, you go back to the main preferences screen.
I could really go for a "standalone" printer-preferences program
(but that's on my growing list of projects that never get done...).
You can pop up your favorite editor from within MORE! (this beats
the PD version I use!) Now if "setenv" were compatible with
the Manx "set" (but this has been hashed over already...)
The docs didn't say anything about programming changes. The Preferences
structure has changed for sure, and there are probably other changes.
I can go and find this stuff out from 'official' developers, but most
people don't have such an option.
All in all, changing from 1.2 to 1.3 is no major hassle (except for
reformatting a hard disk for FFS). Of course, 1.4 should have the really
big changes... (will 1.4 be able to boot both SFS and FFS floppies?
The mind boggles)
--
Darin Johnson (...pyramid.arpa!leadsv!laic!darin)
(...ucbvax!sun!sunncal!leadsv!laic!darin)
"All aboard the DOOMED express!"page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (10/19/88)
darin@laic.UUCP (Darin Johnson) wrote: >When the 1.3 manual states that FFS will cause RAD: not to be bootable, >what do they mean? Does this only mean don't make RAD: be an FFS system, >or will RAD: not be bootable if I have an FFS hard disk? You can't autoboot RAD if it's formatted with FFS. At autoboot time the FastFileSystem handler is not in memory, only the old file system (that's in WCS/ROM). So *no* device can autoboot if *that device* uses FFS. >Comments on 1.3: Agreed on the useless script bit, and the need to build in shell control code (failat, if, etc). WShell (from Bill Hawes) does just this - cut my startup-sequence by like 70% or so. At this point many of the 'hip' Amiga users are using stuff like VD0: ConMan (new version coming to a comp.binaries.amiga near you!), REZ and some shell, so they have no need for the clones CBM wrote. However, there are hundreds of thousands of people who don't know about VD0:, ConMan, REZ, WShell, CShell, etc, and the stuff on WB 1.3 will be fantastic for them. > Since there are a couple of "non-Commodore" products included (such > as FF, NEWCON:) newcon is a CBM product. Sure, FFS and the printer drivers are highlights of 1.3, but from a reliability standpoint, SetPatch gets my vote for best program. >Preferences No more secret messages in preferences :-( >The docs didn't say anything about programming changes. Preferences, printers, and some file system (dos) stuff. Some of those changes aren't even documented to developers (like the FFS TRUNCATE packet). The Native Developer's update will probably detail all the changes. >(will 1.4 be able to boot both SFS and FFS floppies?) Yes. In as much as 1.4 exists, anyway. FFS will be in rom (replacing OFS but keeping compatibility, much to Steve Beats' chagrin). ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "I can't tell the difference between ABC News and Hill Street Blues" -Bono
rap@ardent.UUCP (Rob Peck) (10/19/88)
In article <362@laic.UUCP>, darin@laic.UUCP (Darin Johnson) writes: > Comments on 1.3: > [other comments deleted] > > The MicroEmacs on the Extras disk is lots better than V1.2 > (mouse support), although not as great as I would like. One of the nice improvments in this version is that brace, bracket and parentheses matching is implemented for programming in C. Also, clicking the mouse in a non-current buffer window sets that buffer to be the current one (equivalent of emacs command ^Xp or ^Xn to that buffer's window.) BUT... watch out while editing. MEmacs supports "set-mark" by double- clicking on a single position, or effectively by single clicking on the actual cursor. The released version has a bug (it has been reported) and CBM has checked it out... supposed to be fixed soon and fix to be posted to BIX... the problem is: The ACTUAL marked position is at least two lines higher than the position at which you double-clicked. It may occasionally be unpredictable exactly where the mark actually is if the double-click is used (sometimes found it 2-5 lines higher than I expected). This can get really difficult if one moves regions around a lot and relies on setting the mark using this method. So this is not a BIG deal if one is aware that it happens so you just quit using this one feature. Forewarned is forearmed. So just watch out for this until the update becomes available. I am very pleased with the other improvements, including the ability to execute commands from a named file, effectively allowing an unlimited number of customized macros to be created out of the existing commands. So check it out, if you will. Just watch out for this now known bug. Rob Peck
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/19/88)
In article <362@laic.UUCP> darin@laic.UUCP (Darin Johnson) writes: >1 quick question, and then some comments. > >When the 1.3 manual states that FFS will cause RAD: not to be bootable, >what do they mean? Does this only mean don't make RAD: be an FFS system, >or will RAD: not be bootable if I have an FFS hard disk? This will be answered many times but the end result is that if you have the 1.3 ROMS you can boot from RAD:. Nothing in drive zero ? No problem poof you reboot from RAD:. Actually it is really quite strange when you first see it. Anyway, to make a long story somewhat shorter, if you use FFS on RAD: it won't boot from it because it can load FFS from disk, therefore you lose. But if you don't have 1.3 roms then you won't boot from RAD: anyway so you might as well have it use FFS. Is that any clearer? --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
cknight@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (King Claudius) (03/23/89)
I have heard all of this talk about WB1.3 and haven't been able to get my
grimy little hands on a copy of it. All I'm really looking for is the
RAD: system, although I would love to have the whole Workbench system.
Is it for sale? If not, is Commodore still working on it and it hasn't
quite been released to the public?
I haven't gotten any notice and cannot find any info on how to get it
and a friend who just bought his Ami got 1.2 as well. What's the deal?
Please post the reply if you know where to get it; otherwise, just mail me.
--
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cknight ---King Claudius--- cknight@polyslo.calpoly.edu
Die, Hamlet, DIE! There are three types of people,
me, you, and everyone else.