steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) (03/09/89)
We are starting to accumulate quite a list of things people
would like to see in the next release of KickStart/WorkBench (1.4 or
2.0? If it really is a total rework of the WorkBench environment,
maybe it should be 2.0?). Anyway...
Some of the things that have been suggested have been great
ideas and I hope that they get implimented in one way or another. I
would like to add a couple of wishes myself:
1) Change the requester-hand in the ROM. You know, the one of
the hand holding the Kickstart/Workbench disk. We have an
incredible graphics machine; the opening screen should be a
work of art (how about an animation)! C-A could even sponsor
a contest; they wouldn't have to give out much in the way
of prizes - Just knowing that your picture/animation could
be in every amiga should be incentive enough!
Now I know you are all gonna say "This is a silly wish,
besides the fact that it's not on the screen for very long
if at all!". I know, but it would be so *easy* (I assume)!
2) Change the command-callback feature of the shell so that
SHIFT-LEFT ARROW will move to the start of the previous
word and SHIFT-RIGHT ARROW will move to the start of the
next word. It is so annoying to have a long command typed
in, only to discover that you made a typo smack dab in the
middle of the line! If I remeber correctly, ConMan does a
great job in this respect, but I don't want to run it just
for that when I already have the standard Shell!
3) One last thing (for now :-) I know there are utilities out
there that can shrink a window to the minimum or expand it
to the maximum. Could something like that be implimented?
I would be nice to able to shrink my CLI or Shell to reveal
the WorkBench screen behind it by hitting one function key.
4) That brings up another thing... How about a section in
Preferences to allow the user to map the function keys to
anything they want? Or is this better left to a seperate
utility program?
Anyway, these are some of my wishes for 1.4 or 2.0 (whatever
they decide to call it). I assume most are feasable. If not, don't
flame me. Just let me know what is possible and what is not. Thanks
for listening...
-= Steve =-
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
LIVE: Steve Hall (617)969-0050 | Disclaimer: If
ARPA: adelie!morgoth!steve@harvard.HARVARD.EDU | confronted, I'll deny
UUCP: {harvard|ll-xn|mirror|axiom}!adelie!morgoth!steve | I ever said anything.jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (03/09/89)
In article <504@morgoth.UUCP> steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) writes:
Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this wishlist business, since
there is a proper forum for enhancement requests (which is mail to
cbmvax!bugs). But, I decided the heck with it ...
) 1) Change the requester-hand in the ROM. You know, the one of
) the hand holding the Kickstart/Workbench disk. We have an
) incredible graphics machine; the opening screen should be a
) work of art (how about an animation)! C-A could even sponsor
) a contest; they wouldn't have to give out much in the way
) of prizes - Just knowing that your picture/animation could
) be in every amiga should be incentive enough!
) Now I know you are all gonna say "This is a silly wish,
) besides the fact that it's not on the screen for very long
) if at all!". I know, but it would be so *easy* (I assume)!
The key point here is that the roms are 256K big and have been full
for two releases now. This, along with human resources (if you can call
us that) demand that we pick and choose our fights very carefully.
We actually did discuss a contest to replace the hand, and listed a
number of good criteria, but one of them was "833 bytes maximum, code
and data" or something like that.
) 2) Change the command-callback feature of the shell so that
) SHIFT-LEFT ARROW will move to the start of the previous
) word and SHIFT-RIGHT ARROW will move to the start of the
) next word. It is so annoying to have a long command typed
) in, only to discover that you made a typo smack dab in the
) middle of the line! If I remeber correctly, ConMan does a
) great job in this respect, but I don't want to run it just
) for that when I already have the standard Shell!
Yeah. I second that. I also just run ConMan, no problem.
I'd like 'vi' style editing, actually.
) 3) One last thing (for now :-) I know there are utilities out
) there that can shrink a window to the minimum or expand it
) to the maximum. Could something like that be implimented?
) I would be nice to able to shrink my CLI or Shell to reveal
) the WorkBench screen behind it by hitting one function key.
Do you really want that, Steve? What will you give me for it?
) 4) That brings up another thing... How about a section in
) Preferences to allow the user to map the function keys to
) anything they want? Or is this better left to a seperate
) utility program?
Separate program. I just saw an announcement of a free keymap editor
go by. Mapping keys on a per-window or per-application basis is
a little trickier, but should be possible someday.
jimm
--
Jim Mackraz, I and I Computing "Like you said when we crawled down
{cbmvax,well,oliveb}!amiga!jimm from the trees: We're in transition."
- Gang of Four
Opinions are my own. Comments are not to be taken as Commodore official policy.steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) (03/10/89)
In article <3453@amiga.UUCP>, jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) replied: > Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this wishlist business, since > there is a proper forum for enhancement requests (which is mail to > cbmvax!bugs). But, I decided the heck with it ... I thought that address was just for bug reports...Hmmm, now you'll be getting tons of mail from everyone here who wants their ideas officially noticed! > ) 1) Change the requester-hand in the ROM. You know, the one of [ stuff I wrote about changing hand deleted ] > The key point here is that the roms are 256K big and have been full > for two releases now. This, along with human resources (if you can call > us that) demand that we pick and choose our fights very carefully. > > We actually did discuss a contest to replace the hand, and listed a > number of good criteria, but one of them was "833 bytes maximum, code > and data" or something like that. Yeah, I can see where that would be a problem...kinda tough to a draw a nice picture that's <= 833 bytes :-) > ) 2) Change the command-callback feature of the shell so that > ) SHIFT-LEFT ARROW will move to the start of the previous > ) word and SHIFT-RIGHT ARROW will move to the start of the > ) next word. It is so annoying to have a long command typed [ stuff I wrote about moving on the command line deleted ] > Yeah. I second that. I also just run ConMan, no problem. > I'd like 'vi' style editing, actually. So this *is* something that would be worthwhile to put in... There was a post by someone else saying that he just switched from ConMan to the NewShell. ConMan is a wonderful utility, but it's kinda silly to load it up just to get the ability to move back and forth on the command line! Is it possible to change the Shell so that we can use the pointer to click on where we want the cursor to be in the command line? > ) 3) One last thing (for now :-) I know there are utilities out > ) there that can shrink a window to the minimum or expand it > ) to the maximum. Could something like that be implimented? [ some more of my ramblings deleted ] > Do you really want that, Steve? What will you give me for it? Yeah, I really want that! Let's see, what would I give you for it? /----\ / \ | ZZZ / | ZZZ | \ / \___ | \/ /-\ \_/ /-\ \_/ Well, you can have my parents (I don't use 'em much anymore :-), my first born child (but you have to name him "LEO"), and of course, my undying gratitude! > ) 4) That brings up another thing... How about a section in [ OK, so I rambled on about some function key nonsense too... ] > Separate program. I just saw an announcement of a free keymap editor > go by. Mapping keys on a per-window or per-application basis is > a little trickier, but should be possible someday. Sounds good; any idea of a release time on that? Thanks for the response, Jim. It's nice to see that CBM is actually reading this stuff and responding :-) -= Steve =- -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- LIVE: Steve Hall (617)969-0050 | Disclaimer: If ARPA: adelie!morgoth!steve@harvard.HARVARD.EDU | confronted, I'll deny UUCP: {harvard|ll-xn|mirror|axiom}!adelie!morgoth!steve | I ever said anything.
rusty@hocpa.UUCP (M.W.HADDOCK) (03/11/89)
In article <3453@amiga.UUCP> jimm@cloyd.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) writes: >In article <504@morgoth.UUCP> steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) writes: > >) 3) One last thing (for now :-) I know there are utilities out >) there that can shrink a window to the minimum or expand it >) to the maximum. Could something like that be implimented? >) I would be nice to able to shrink my CLI or Shell to reveal >) the WorkBench screen behind it by hitting one function key. > >Do you really want that, Steve? JimM - I certainly would like that! How 'bout instead of using Steve's function keys give us one or two more "standard" gadgets that perform this function. A MAX and MIN gadget next to the ToBack and ToFront gadgets. Yeah, that's it. I believe I saw something like this on the Atari 520 when it first came out and I liked the idea. Or how 'bout double clicking the sizing gadget to toggle back and forth 'tween MAX and MIN window? >What will you give me for it? Would it really be THAT difficult? If so then how 'bout an autographed disk pack of "Leo Schwab's and Matt Dillon's Greatest Freely Redistributable Hits of the Eighties"? For anyone else: The price is an amazingly low $49.95. To order yours now call 1-800-111-2222, after midnight. Mention that you heard this on Usenet and get an ear full of maniacal laughter. :-}}} Oh well, just some thoughts... -Rusty- -- Rusty Haddock {uunet!likewise,att,arpa}!hocpa!rusty AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733 (201) 834-1023 rusty@hocpa.att.com ** Genius may have its limitations but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
nsw@cord.UUCP (Neil Weinstock) (03/11/89)
In article <3453@amiga.UUCP> jimm@cloyd.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) writes: >In article <504@morgoth.UUCP> steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) writes: > >Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this wishlist business, since >there is a proper forum for enhancement requests (which is mail to >cbmvax!bugs). But, I decided the heck with it ... Oh boy, here we go... ;-) [ suggestion to replace the "insert workbench disk" hand picture ] >The key point here is that the roms are 256K big and have been full >for two releases now. This, along with human resources (if you can call >us that) demand that we pick and choose our fights very carefully. > >We actually did discuss a contest to replace the hand, and listed a >number of good criteria, but one of them was "833 bytes maximum, code >and data" or something like that. I'll bet (pure speculation) that there are many people who would love to see what they can do with 833 bytes. >I'd like 'vi' style editing, actually. YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES Boy, would that be great. Would love to see it in ConMan. >) 3) One last thing (for now :-) I know there are utilities out >) there that can shrink a window to the minimum or expand it >) to the maximum. Could something like that be implimented? >) I would be nice to able to shrink my CLI or Shell to reveal >) the WorkBench screen behind it by hitting one function key. > >Do you really want that, Steve? What will you give me for it? ;-) I was actually hoping for a general iconification capability. I can't say exactly how it should work, but here are a few ideas. 1) A standard system iconify gadget for Workbench windows. Clicking the gadget iconifies the window. Double clicking the resulting icon would reopen the window. 2) Applications could specify an icon to "become" when iconified. The icon would appear on the Workbench background, along with the disk icons. In order to be useful at all, there would need to be some way to see the icons that are hidden by windows on the Workbench screen. Heck, this is much needed anyway! 3) The window's IDCMP port would be receive some new messages to let it know it's being iconified or reopened. Maybe there should also be ICONIFYVERIFY. 4) If we want to be studly, we could allow applications to do fun things from within the iconified state. Frinstance, let's say that if you drag a file's icon onto the application's icon, then the application would get a message with a pointer to the file or something like that. This would make implementation of the "printer device icon" trivial. If you wanted, you could pop the device's window open and change some settings, or whatever. Sounds like some kind of fun, eh? The key is that right now, window's can make themselves small, but can't actually work with Workbench's icon functionality. The stuff described above would act as a bridge. For sure, I haven't thought through all the implications of this too clearly (or at all, for that matter). Does it make any sense??? >) 4) That brings up another thing... How about a section in >) Preferences to allow the user to map the function keys to >) anything they want? Or is this better left to a seperate >) utility program? > >Separate program. I just saw an announcement of a free keymap editor >go by. Mapping keys on a per-window or per-application basis is >a little trickier, but should be possible someday. I agree, a separate program. Ideally, it should be available from a Workbench menu (a la Mac desk accessory) for ready access. Or, it could be iconified and laying around on the Workbench ;-). /.- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ... .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ...\ / Neil Weinstock | att!cord!nsw | "One man's garbage is another \ \ AT&T Bell Labs | nsw@cord.att.com | man's prune danish." - Harv Laser / \.- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . ... .- -- .. --. .- .-. ..- .-.. . .../
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (03/11/89)
In article <3453@amiga.UUCP> jimm@cloyd.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) writes: >In article <504@morgoth.UUCP> steve@morgoth.UUCP (Steve Hall) writes: >) 1) Change the requester-hand in the ROM. [ ... ] > >We actually did discuss a contest to replace the hand, and listed a >number of good criteria, but one of them was "833 bytes maximum, code >and data" or something like that. > To anyone at Commodore who's watching: You realize, of course, that two people have already done this. Bryce Nesbitt (who you subsequently hired), and Ben Fuller, author of Project D. I'm currently using the Fuller-hacked Kickstart. It's a multi-colored checkmark on a white background. Two Boing balls are bouncing on the top of the left side of the checkmark. The legend reads: "We've got balls! Amiga Kickstart 1.3. Please insert Workbench." So. Two people have made it fit into that tiny space. I'm sure Jez San could cram something nifty in there, too. I know this isn't a democracy, but I vote that you reconsider. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
scotth@harlie.sgi.com (Scott Henry) (03/11/89)
I was going to keep out of the wish-list flame wars :-), but I am going
to add my $0.02 worth.
Up until a week ago, I had no real complaints (aside from wanting an
iconification gadget on the windows) about the way Intuition handles
handles window gadgets, sizing especially. However, I just saw something
that I think is just an incredible improvement over the sizing gadget in
the lower-right-hand corner: sizing gadgets in ALL FOUR CORNERS!
Some background: I work at Silicon Graphics Inc, and am able to get an
IRIS (made by SGI) on my desk. I can also pick up the latest revisions
of the OS (even in internal alpha stage) as often as I want. The latest
release of the IRIX (SGI's parallel version of SysV Un*x w/BSD
extensions) window manager (4Sight, based on NeWS w/X11R3 support)
included a major overhaul of the windowing system interface. There is a
lot more real estate to play with on an IRIS (1280x1024 pixels with 8 or
24 bits/pixel) for windowing gadgetry than on an Amiga (675x440 on my
interlace & overscan WB with 2 bits/pixel), so the imagry would have to
be much different. The window borders are (at least) 5 pixels wide, so
there is room for sizing gadgetry to be visible, plus, the mouse pointer
changes shape to a '+' when it is over the sizing gadgets (which extend
at least one character height both ways from the corner). In addition,
the window has iconify gadget (upper left (I'v accidentally killed a few
windows on my amiga because of work reflexes)), kill gadget (upper
right), text memory scroll bar (proportional now!) with up & down arrow
gadgets (left side of window). Popping and pushing is done by pop-up
menu, though left-mouse click on border is short-cut for window-pop. I'm
also getting rather fond of pop-up menus now...
I *LIKE* the idea of 4-way sizable windows! If the border at each corner
could be made visually different (say, the highlight color, or a dot
pattern instead of solid, with a several pixel wide invisible hit area,
it should gives us MORE window area (if you're not using scroll bars) than
currently, along with more power/flexibility.
A little fantasy of mine: SGI and CBM have a joint marketing program for
graphics and animation -- a MacII beating combination: more power for
1/2 the money with an Amiga, or LOTS more power for twice the money with
a (next generation) Personal Iris! (at the Oct 4th official announcment
of the Personal Iris (it was shipping then), there was a public
commitment by the president of SGI to bring an "under $10,000" IRIS to
market as soon as possible).
-------
Scott Henry <scotth@sgi.com>
Disclaimer: Though I work for SGI, these are only my opinions, and don't
reflect SGI management or sales, etc, etc, :-).
--
---------------------
Scott Henry <scotth@sgi.com>
#include <std_disclaimer.h>mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) (03/12/89)
In article <SCOTTH.89Mar11125428@harlie.sgi.com> scotth@harlie.sgi.com (Scott Henry) writes: > >Up until a week ago, I had no real complaints (aside from wanting an >iconification gadget on the windows) about the way Intuition handles >handles window gadgets, sizing especially. However, I just saw something >that I think is just an incredible improvement over the sizing gadget in >the lower-right-hand corner: sizing gadgets in ALL FOUR CORNERS! Actually, this capability isn't all that new; at work, we have PC-type at work (yeah, I know, no flames, please!), and under version 2 of said package, not only do you have sizing gadgets on all 4 corners, but on the edges as well! Grabbing any of the resizing points and "pulling" will stretch the window (or contract it), much the same way as a typical object-oriented drawing package which gives you 8 "control points" would allow you to do. The penalty (if you want to call it that) of this approach is that the borders of any resizable window have a finite thickness, which is by default 5 pixels (you can change this thickness to suit your preferences via MS-Windows' Control Panel, which is analogous to our Preferences). This capability is nice to have, as Scott relates, as it eliminates the need to first move the window, then resize it, for most circumstances (although you may end up simply resizing the window twice!). Another couple of things that the MS-Windows interface has going for it is the ability to iconify (which they call minimizing window size), maximizing (which zooms a window to full screen size, which in turn "hides" the resizing gadgets, making it look sort of like a backdrop-type window), and also implementing double-click shortcuts for many of the above operations, depending on where you double-click. I should probably curtail any addition descriptions, lest it would appear that I am in some way "glorifying" the PC or one of its successful (and IMHO visually well executed) programs. If someone has any followup questions, you may want to email me directly, to avoid turning this message thread into an "Workbench vs. MS-Windows" war. > Scott Henry <scotth@sgi.com> -- - Mike Shawaluk (mikes@lakesys.lakesys.com OR ...!uunet!marque!lakesys!mikes) "Where were you on the night of August 12?"
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (03/13/89)
Leo,
Does Ben Fuller provide some way for other Amigoids to get this 'different'
version of Kickstart?? I love the startup message you said it gives. :> :> :>
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.Comjimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (03/14/89)
) >) I would be nice to able to shrink my CLI or Shell to reveal
) >) the WorkBench screen behind it by hitting one function key.
) >
) >Do you really want that, Steve?
)
)JimM -
) I certainly would like that! How 'bout instead of using Steve's function
)keys give us one or two more "standard" gadgets that perform this function.
)A MAX and MIN gadget next to the ToBack and ToFront gadgets. Yeah, that's
)it. I believe I saw something like this on the Atari 520 when it first came
)out and I liked the idea.
Maybe, ... you're getting warmer.
)Or how 'bout double clicking the sizing gadget to
)toggle back and forth 'tween MAX and MIN window?
We have a winner!
) >What will you give me for it?
)
)Would it really be THAT difficult? If so then how 'bout an autographed disk
)pack of "Leo Schwab's and Matt Dillon's Greatest Freely Redistributable Hits
)of the Eighties"?
Send it in.
)For anyone else:
)The price is an amazingly low $49.95.
No, wait, I'll take the cash, Monty.
jimm
--
Jim Mackraz, I and I Computing "Like you said when we crawled down
{cbmvax,well,oliveb}!amiga!jimm from the trees: We're in transition."
- Gang of Four
Opinions are my own. Comments are not to be taken as Commodore official policy.hansb@ariel.unm.edu (Hans Bechtel) (03/14/89)
Leo, could you email me the trick needed to set up my 1.3 kickstart the same way, the "fuller" way... Thanks Hans *********************** Hans Bechtel * Amiga Before / * * The Rest / * hansb@ariel.unm.edu ************** \/ ***** (505) 275-2797
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (03/15/89)
In article <15784@cup.portal.com> Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com writes: > Does Ben Fuller provide some way for other Amigoids to get this 'different' >version of Kickstart?? [ ... ] > So sorry; I should have said up front. The Fuller-hacked Kickstart is an internal goodie to Silent Software Inc. and, sadly, is not generally available. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (03/16/89)
MMM... Maybe we should talk Ben into selling this 'different' version of
kickstart. He really should consider marketing it. I think it would sell well
at AmiExpo too! :] :] :]
- Doug -
Doug_B_Erdely@Portal.Cup.Competer@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (03/19/89)
Two IMPORTANT features: Pop-up menus. Sizing gadget in the TOP border. -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.hackercorp.com 'U`
hgm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) (03/20/89)
And here's one so simple and intuitive, that I hadn't noticed it's abscence until I watched a PC user play with my machine. A close gadget on cli windows. --hal -- ---------------- hgm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu "Everything is a reaction" netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet
rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) (03/20/89)
Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please. Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera.
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (03/20/89)
In article <4297@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) writes:
->
->Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please.
->
->Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera.
It will take quite a bit of work to be useful since most of the commands
in C: currently are not filters.
--
-+= SAM =+-
"the best things in life are free"
ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.govdeven@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven Corzine) (03/21/89)
In article <4297@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) writes: >Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please. This would be a huge improvement... >Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera. Hmm... I dunno about you, but I rarely do ... | sort | wc ... after all, the sort is useless. :-) Deven -- ------- shadow@pawl.rpi.edu ------- Deven Thomas Corzine --------------------- Cogito shadow@acm.rpi.edu 2346 15th Street Pi-Rho America ergo userfxb6@rpitsmts.bitnet Troy, NY 12180-2306 (518) 272-5847 sum... In the immortal words of Socrates: "I drank what?" ...I think.
riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) (03/21/89)
In article <DEVEN.89Mar20120656@daniel.pawl.rpi.edu> shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven Thomas Corzine) writes: >In article <4297@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) writes: >>Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please. >This would be a huge improvement... >>Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera. Come on, we've got real pipes. What you want is just syntactic sugar. Something the shell should do. In fact, WShell (by Bill Hawes) does this. Anyway, don't say "give me a real pipe", 'cause they did already. Say "please, make pipes easier to use". Or just get WShell. -Dan Riley (riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) -Wilson Lab, Cornell U.
rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) (03/21/89)
In article <7587@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) writes: > In article <DEVEN.89Mar20120656@daniel.pawl.rpi.edu> shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven Thomas Corzine) writes: > >In article <4297@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) writes: > >>Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please. > >This would be a huge improvement... > >>Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera. > > Come on, we've got real pipes. What you want is just syntactic sugar. > Something the shell should do. In fact, WShell (by Bill Hawes) does this. > Anyway, don't say "give me a real pipe", 'cause they did already. Say > "please, make pipes easier to use". Or just get WShell. > > -Dan Riley (riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) > -Wilson Lab, Cornell U. I' d like to clear up some of the confusion about my earlier posting, confusion that resulted because I was too vague. I'd like to see a real scripting language in 1.4, one that would include pipes a la Unix to GREATLY enhance it's power. I want this to come from Commodore, not because I think they'll do a vastly better job than what people are doing with things like arp or Wshell, but because then it will be STANDARD, and code will start appearing all over the place, plus other people can use the scripts I write. Someone sent me mail about how he was going to make Arp do this in the next release, and I think that's great - I can't wait to use it. But I still think that something that comes WITH the machine will turn out to be of more use than a 3rd party add-on, just because more people will use it, and think of things to do with it that I never would.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/21/89)
in article <4297@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM>, rickfor@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Rick Forrest) says: > Followupn-To: > Please, Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give me a real pipe. Please. > Meaning: list | sort | wc, et cetera. That's just a shell issue; the named pipes are a superset of command-line pipes. If you want this today, I'd recommend WShell by Bill Hawes, P.O. Box 308, Maynard, MA 01754. I use it personally, all the time, and I wouldn't want to be without it. It's very much an Amiga feeling shell, not a csh clone. It uses the Conman named pipe handler to make it's in-line pipes, and it's smart enough to parse the difference between: dir a | b and dir a|b It also parses ">" and "<" anywhere on a command line, and has one other UNIX-ism; the "&" character at the end of a line causes the line to be "Run". The most important part of WShell, though, is that it speaks ARexx. If you're not familiar with ARexx yet, it's an interpreted script language, more powerful than the Amiga script or csh script languages. It has powerful string manipulation facilities -- not exactly Snobol4 or Icon, but better than most BASICs. And, best of all, it can act as "glue" between the functions of two interactive programs (eg, have your text editor call up your data base program to find a piece of information). -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/22/89)
In article <4301@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> (Rick Forrest) writes: > I'd like to see a real scripting language in 1.4, one that would > include pipes a la Unix to GREATLY enhance it's power. I want this to > come from Commodore, not because I think they'll do a vastly better job > than what people are doing with things like arp or Wshell, but because > then it will be STANDARD, and code will start appearing all over the > place, plus other people can use the scripts I write. On the question of making a "STANDARD" you treat only one case. There are, in fact, three ways to create a standard. #1) TRADITIONAL : The standard is created by it's being suppied with the OS or the documentation with the OS. This is how AmigaBASIC became a standard, everyone has it. Everyone can run Execute scripts as well. People that have 1.3 have "command history" and the ASK keyword for scripts. Using traditionally created standards is fairly easy, if your product fails, you tell the customer to get their OS upgraded. #2) COMMON USE : Common use standards are created by something being genuinely useful to the user community. Sun's NFS became a Common Use standard way before AT&T decided they wanted to bundle it with System V. Using common use standards is also quite easy, if your product fails you tell the customer where to get the missing "standard." #3) LEGISLATED : The legislated standard is created by a bunch of people who have something to lose if it goes the "wrong" way. They all get together and try to out manuever everyone else in the group so that they don't have to do any work to "support" the new standard. In general everyone at the Standard's Meetings wants to add something that they can point to and say "That is what we got into the standard." Using legislated standards is nearly impossible. The bulk of the standard is useless in accomplishing the task it was set out to accomplish. Alternatively the standard is so cryptic and poorly specified that two intelligent programmers implementing from the same "standard" usually produce something that cannot interoperate. In the case of the Amiga one could make a case for AREXX becoming a common use standard. Because it is used (and useful) in many products and because it is easily acquired, many people buy it and add it to their standard list of things they have on the system. WShell could become a common use standard as well. Although half of the benefits of WShell seem to be the value of ConMAN. When ConMAN has the ability to use proportional fonts and was built as a character mapped console rather than a smart refresh bitmapped console it too would become a standard of sorts. In general, if the scripts you write are useful, and you make the requirement that people who use them have WShell. You will have begun the common use standard procedure. There are always people who live on the edge between eating this week or buying Wayne Gretsky's Hockey who will not buy WShell to use your scripts, yet in general most people won't mind. Especially since something like WShell can make their overall life easier. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (03/22/89)
I understand there is a guy porting one of the PD bourne shells to the Amiga. That should solve EVERYONE's requirements for a scripting language, besides making it so much easier to handle sharchives. If there isn't, the 'ash' shell is a very decent bourne-clone for a dedicated hacker to work on. (Not me, a family plus Browser plus 50 hour work weeks is plenty...) -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.hackercorp.com 'U`
ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) (04/03/89)
More 1.4 wish list entries (for Workbench)....
1. Make it possible to move windows (at least partially) off the screen,
in any direction. Being able to slide your windows all around makes the
screen seem much bigger.
2. Add an 'iconify' gadget to CLI windows. I know there's at least one
PD one out there, but it stuffs the resulting icon into RAM:....
I'd rather see it on the Workbench screen. Double clicking on the
icon would open the window back up.
3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in
combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the
front, hold the shift key & click the left mouse button on any
available portion of the window). This is the system used by uwm
under X. It's completely user configurable via a config file.
It's easier to just find a corner of the window you want to
resize or whatever and click on it while holding down a ket, than
to slide the mouse pointer on to a small (on interlace) gadget.
--
Eric Murray IBM Advanced Workstation Div. {ucbvax,uunet}!ibmsupt!ericm
1510 Page Mill Road
Palo Alto Ca. 94304
Disclaimer: none of this represents IBM's Official Policy, etc.griff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) (04/04/89)
In article <716@ibmpa.UUCP> ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) writes: [stuff deleted] >2. Add an 'iconify' gadget to CLI windows. I know there's at least one PD one out there, but it stuffs the resulting icon into RAM:.... I'd rather see it on the Workbench screen. Double clicking on the icon would open the window back up. yep. >3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the front, hold the shift key & click the left mouse button on any available portion of the window). This is the system used by uwm under X. It's completely user configurable via a config file. It's easier to just find a corner of the window you want to resize or whatever and click on it while holding down a ket, than to slide the mouse pointer on to a small (on interlace) gadget. Wrong! (at least for me! :-) - I've used uwm under X, I don't like it nearly as well, I can manipulate several programs using one hand under the current system - It takes two using uwm/X Bleah! How `bout this instead? Make standard windows check for an interlace screen and change the size of the gadgets accordingly? >-- >eric Murray IBM Advanced Workstation Div. {ucbvax,uunet}!ibmsupt!ericm 1510 Page Mill Road Palo Alto Ca. 94304 >Disclaimer: none of this represents IBM's Official Policy, etc. - griff -- * Richard E. Griffith * Cyrus Hammerhand * * "griff" * Household of the Golden Wolf * * BiiN, Hillsboro Ore. * Dragons' Mist * * ARPA: <@intel-iwarp.arpa:griff@intelob> * An Tir * * UUCP: ...[!uunet]!tektronix!biin!griff * * ************************************************************************** * These are MY opinions, if BiiN wanted them, They'd pay for `em! *
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (04/04/89)
In article <GRIFF.89Apr3151926@intelob.intel.com> griff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) writes: ->In article <716@ibmpa.UUCP> ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) writes: ->>3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in -> combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the -> front, hold the shift key & click the left mouse button on any -> available portion of the window). This is the system used by uwm -> under X. It's completely user configurable via a config file. -> It's easier to just find a corner of the window you want to -> resize or whatever and click on it while holding down a ket, than -> to slide the mouse pointer on to a small (on interlace) gadget. -> ->Wrong! (at least for me! :-) - I've used uwm under X, I don't like it ->nearly as well, I can manipulate several programs using one hand under ->the current system - It takes two using uwm/X Bleah! How `bout this ->instead? Make standard windows check for an interlace screen and ->change the size of the gadgets accordingly? This all depends on how you customize uwm. -- -+= SAM =+- "the best things in life are free" ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (04/05/89)
> *Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 3-Apr-89 Re: Yet Another Entry In Th..* > *Eric Murray@ibmpa.UUCP (1210)* > 3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in > combination with mouse button clicks YUCK. If Commodore ever does this I will immediately toss my Amiga into the nearest trash dumpster and start shopping for a Macintosh. -- Michael Portuesi * Information Technology Center * Carnegie Mellon University INET: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu * BITNET: mp1u+@andrew UUCP: ...harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!mp1u+ "Some say that knowledge is something that you never have" -- K. Bush
dinsdale%liaison@Sun.COM (Tom van Peer) (04/05/89)
In article <GRIFF.89Apr3151926@intelob.intel.com> griff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) writes: >In article <716@ibmpa.UUCP> ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) writes: > >>3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in > combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the > >Wrong! (at least for me! :-) - I've used uwm under X, I don't like it >nearly as well, I can manipulate several programs using one hand under >the current system - It takes two using uwm/X Bleah! How `bout this >instead? Make standard windows check for an interlace screen and >change the size of the gadgets accordingly? Typical X11 solution, checking for type of screen ;->. How many types of screens are there already around and how many will there be in the near future ? I vaguely remember some anouncement of a color screen last week. Personally I like the Mach solution: gadgets get obscured too often but with Mach I only have to click on any part of the window to get it up front. It saves me a lot of window shuffling and I finally got rid of that ******* click-to-type. Tom van Peer. tom@pcg.philips.nl or dinsdale@liaison.sun.com (whichever is closer to you)
pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) (04/05/89)
In article <716@ibmpa.UUCP> ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) writes: >3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in > combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the > front, hold the shift key & click the left mouse button on any > available portion of the window). DMouse does much of this, and could be extended to handle the rest. This is The Amiga Way. > This is the system used by uwm under X. Right. The Amiga can do this with a clever program like DMouse. X can't emulate intuition, though, because it is totally undiciplined about mouse buttons. For example, you could write a window manager that put up all right gadgets, and used them to drag and reshape windows (though the close gadget would be pretty tricky). But you couldn't make the right mouse button pull down a menu, because applications may need the right mouse button. For example, xcalc can only be exited by clicking the "on" button with the right mouse button. It's like it didn't occur to them that anyone would build a mouse with other than 3 buttons, and that different people might want different interpretations of mouse button-modifier key combinations. -- -Peter Schachte pds@quintus.uucp ...!sun!quintus!pds
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (04/05/89)
In article <980@quintus.UUCP> pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) writes:
->Right. The Amiga can do this with a clever program like DMouse. X can't
->emulate intuition, though, because it is totally undiciplined about mouse
->buttons. For example, you could write a window manager that put up all
->right gadgets, and used them to drag and reshape windows (though the close
->gadget would be pretty tricky). But you couldn't make the right mouse
->button pull down a menu, because applications may need the right mouse
->button. For example, xcalc can only be exited by clicking the "on" button
->with the right mouse button. It's like it didn't occur to them that
->anyone would build a mouse with other than 3 buttons, and that different
->people might want different interpretations of mouse button-modifier
->key combinations.
This is all a bunch of baloney. I suggest you learn about X a little
before making comments like the ones above. You are mixing who is doing
what between X, the window manager (in this case uwm), and the client (
in this case xcalc).
First of all, even the humble uwm allows you to define what you want
it to do when you select any mouse button in the .uwmrc startup file.
You can specify what action is to take effect depending on three
fields: control keys, CONTEXT, and mouse buttons. For the mouse
button field you can specify left, middle or right, and these can be
or'ed with the mouse actions of down, up, or delta (indicating that
the mouse must be moved the number of pixels specified with the delta
variable before the specified function is invoked). In the control
keys field you can specify meta (or esc), ctrl, shift, lock, or null,
as modifiers to the mouse buttons; again these can be or'ed. In the
context field you can specify icon, window, root, or null; root refers
to the background window, and they can be ored.
Now if an application makes use of the right mouse button, all I have to
do, for example, is move the mouse over the root window and get a popup
menu with the right mouse button, if I so choose to specify in my .uwmrc.
It's as simple as that. I wish Intuition had that kind of flexibility.
Saying that you can't use the right mouse button for menus on xcalc is
analogous to saying that you can't use the right mouse button to paint
in some specific paint program, because the right button is used for
menus. Come on, xcalc is just a program written by an individual.
He had to make a choice on which button to use to do specific functions.
Just because his choice does not agree with you, it's no reason to
castigate X Windows for it.
As far as killing xcalc, you can always move over to your xterm window
and type kill XXXX (xcalc's pid) and you've done it without using the
right mouse button.
And finally, X itself supports a pointing device with at least 5
buttons. It's true that uwm only supports three, but uwm is only
another client, and only a simple window manager. What does this
mean? It means that there are a lot more sophisticated window
managers around that do a lot more than uwm, and it also means that if
you don't like the window managers you have, you can write your own,
as indeed some people have done. Have you tried to write your own
Intuition lately?
Well, I did not intend this posting to be somewhat antagonistic,
especially towards Intuition, because I love my Amiga. But it just
irritates me when people make blanket statements about things they
know very little about. Besides, this kind of stuff does not belong
in comp.sys.amiga.
->-Peter Schachte
->pds@quintus.uucp
->...!sun!quintus!pds
--
-+= SAM =+-
"the best things in life are free"
ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.govgriff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) (04/05/89)
In article <0YCE9Py00VsfI8XWZJ@andrew.cmu.edu> mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >> *Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 3-Apr-89 Re: Yet Another Entry In Th..* >> *Eric Murray@ibmpa.UUCP (1210)* >> 3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in >> combination with mouse button clicks >YUCK. >If Commodore ever does this I will immediately toss my Amiga into the nearest >trash dumpster and start shopping for a Macintosh. Hear, Hear! How `bout this instead - change the way Intuition deals with interlaced windows - just double the height of gadgets to make them easier to use? - griff -- * Richard E. Griffith * Cyrus Hammerhand * * "griff" * Household of the Golden Wolf * * BiiN, Hillsboro Ore. * Dragons' Mist * * ARPA: <@intel-iwarp.arpa:griff@intelob> * An Tir * * UUCP: ...[!uunet]!tektronix!biin!griff * * ************************************************************************** * These are MY opinions, if BiiN wanted them, They'd pay for `em! *
jtp@lupu.hut.fi (Jukka Tapani Partanen) (04/06/89)
In article <980@quintus.UUCP> pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) writes: >In article <716@ibmpa.UUCP> ericm@ibmpa.UUCP (Eric Murray) writes: >>3. Dispense with gadgets completely, and use keyboard qualifiers in >> combination with mouse button clicks (i.e. to move a window to the >> front, hold the shift key & click the left mouse button on any >> available portion of the window). > >DMouse does much of this, and could be extended to handle the rest. >This is The Amiga Way. I agree. There is an annoying bug in dmouse (intuition?) refresh routine, however. When there are custom gadgets in a window (i.e. not close, size, drag, depth) dmouse doesn't refresh the window right when it brings it on top. A similar program, Mach II, doesn't have this bug, so it would be nice if somebody fixed it. Apart from that DMouse is an excellent program like many other Matt Dillon's little utilities. Dnet (little? Huh? :-) is one of my favorites, I use it almost every day. >-Peter Schachte >pds@quintus.uucp >...!sun!quintus!pds -- Life is hard, can't get to heaven on roller skates, can't find a taxi cab to Timbuktu
pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) (04/08/89)
In article <91@snll-arpagw.UUCP> paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) writes: >In article <980@quintus.UUCP> pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) writes: >->X can't emulate intuition, because it is totally undiciplined about mouse >->buttons. For example, you couldn't make the right mouse button pull down >->a menu, because applications may need the right mouse button. It's like >->it didn't occur to them that anyone would build a mouse with other than 3 >-> buttons, and that different people might want different interpretations of >-> mouse button-modifier key combinations. > >You are mixing who is doing what between X, the window manager (in this >case uwm), and the client (in this case xcalc). Not really. The issue is not who is DOING what, but what standards exist. I won't respond to your individual points, because they miss my point entirely. I guess I don't communicate as well as I think I do :-(. I'll try to be clearer. X's "no policy" policy is a really good idea, but it needs to be followed up with a mechanism that allows users to formulate their own policy. For example, X has a mechanism (the resource manager) that gives users a standard way to modify aspects of X programs like the color of certain widgets. There is also the translation manager to allow users to bind keystrokes to functions. There is no similar mechanism for users to bind mouse buttons. So no one trying to write a program that makes any effort to run on a variety of hardware will use buttons 4 or 5 for anything important, because few people have more than 3 mouse buttons. And anyone with less than 3 is going to be in trouble, because a lot of X software expects 3 mouse buttons. (I wonder what Dale does about this? Besides selling a 3 button mouse.) Even if everyone had 3-button mice, the "no policy" policy gets into trouble here. Since there is no policy of which buttons mean what, each application can do whatever it wants. Chaos. There is no way for the user to create homogeneity other than to only buy software that uses mouse buttons the way he does. Or write it himself. So what should they have done? Basically, rather than returning uninterpreted mouse button numbers, they should return something with an interpretation, and allow users to change the mapping from physical event to interpretation. One way to do this is through the keymap facility. Merge keypresses with buttonpresses, and invent a bunch of keycodes for logical mouse operations: select, extend, menu, insert, etc. This approach would also allow users to map modified mouse buttons (e.g., meta+shift+button1) to keycodes, and would allow the keyboard to be used instead of the mouse for these things. Of course, it's too late, the protocol is fixed. Maybe for X12. BTW, Intuition avoids this problem by not being policy-free. I'd rather it were policy free, if it allow me to set my own policy. But I prefer SOME policy to anarchy. -- -Peter Schachte pds@quintus.uucp ...!sun!quintus!pds
brant@uf.msc.umn.edu (Gary Brant) (04/08/89)
In article <GRIFF.89Apr5112957@intelob.intel.com> griff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) writes: > > Hear, Hear! How `bout this instead - change the way Intuition deals >with interlaced windows - just double the height of gadgets to make >them easier to use? > YUCK!! Please don't!!!!!!!!!!! I *HATE* those obese gadgets and icons on non- interlaced screens. The smaller gadgets on interlaced screens are ever so much more professional looking. -Gary Brant ARPA: brant@uf.msc.umn.edu My employer has no knowledge of my ravings.
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (04/09/89)
In article <982@quintus.UUCP> pds@quintus.UUCP (Peter Schachte) writes:
->I won't respond to your individual points, because they miss my point
->entirely. I guess I don't communicate as well as I think I do :-(.
->I'll try to be clearer.
->
->X's "no policy" policy is a really good idea, but it needs to be
->followed up with a mechanism that allows users to formulate their own
->policy. For example, X has a mechanism (the resource manager) that
->gives users a standard way to modify aspects of X programs like the
->color of certain widgets. There is also the translation manager to
->allow users to bind keystrokes to functions.
->
->There is no similar mechanism for users to bind mouse buttons. So no
->one trying to write a program that makes any effort to run on a variety
->of hardware will use buttons 4 or 5 for anything important, because few
->people have more than 3 mouse buttons. And anyone with less than 3 is
->going to be in trouble, because a lot of X software expects 3 mouse
->buttons. (I wonder what Dale does about this? Besides selling a 3
->button mouse.)
Now that you have made your point clear, I agree with you entirely.
Any machine that does not support 3 mouse buttons is going to have
difficulty in using many X clients. What this means is that if
you have interest in using X on the Amiga you should go out and
buy a 3 button mouse from Dale. Many of those clients cannot be used
effectively on the Amiga with a two button mouse. On the positive
side, how many clients you think you could use on a MacIntosh with
a 1 button mouse :-) ?
->Even if everyone had 3-button mice, the "no policy" policy gets into
->trouble here. Since there is no policy of which buttons mean what, each
->application can do whatever it wants. Chaos. There is no way for the
->user to create homogeneity other than to only buy software that uses
->mouse buttons the way he does. Or write it himself.
->
->So what should they have done? Basically, rather than returning
->uninterpreted mouse button numbers, they should return something with an
->interpretation, and allow users to change the mapping from physical
->event to interpretation. One way to do this is through the keymap
->facility. Merge keypresses with buttonpresses, and invent a bunch of
->keycodes for logical mouse operations: select, extend, menu, insert,
->etc. This approach would also allow users to map modified mouse buttons
->(e.g., meta+shift+button1) to keycodes, and would allow the keyboard to
->be used instead of the mouse for these things.
->
->Of course, it's too late, the protocol is fixed. Maybe for X12.
->
->BTW, Intuition avoids this problem by not being policy-free. I'd rather
->it were policy free, if it allow me to set my own policy. But I prefer
->SOME policy to anarchy.
I'd rather have chaos and be free, than have rules that tie my hands. But
as you suggest, maybe there is a better way.
--
-+= SAM =+-
"the best things in life are free"
ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.govaaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) (04/12/89)
In article <21080@santra.UUCP> jtp@lupu.hut.fi (Jukka Tapani Partanen) writes: > I agree. There is an annoying bug in dmouse (intuition?) > refresh routine, however. When there are custom gadgets > in a window (i.e. not close, size, drag, depth) dmouse > doesn't refresh the window right when it brings it on top. DMouse allows you to configure it to use either the LayerToFront() call or the WindowToFront() call. I believe that having it use the LayerToFront() call would cause the symptoms you're describing. This option was added to DMouse because of an interaction with workbench icons. -- Aaron Avery, ASDG Inc. "A mime is a terrible thing to waste." -- Robin Williams ARPA: madnix!aaron@cs.wisc.edu {uunet|ncoast}!marque! UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!aaron
jtp@lupu.hut.fi (Jukka Tapani Partanen) (04/14/89)
In article <603@madnix.UUCP> aaron@madnix.UUCP (Aaron Avery) writes: <I whined about a bug in DMouse.> >DMouse allows you to configure it to use either the LayerToFront() call or the >WindowToFront() call. I believe that having it use the LayerToFront() call >would cause the symptoms you're describing. This option was added to DMouse >because of an interaction with workbench icons. Oh, really? Well, maybe it's time for RTFM again... :-) BTW, I don't use Dmouse any longer. Qmouse is a lot smaller, and it does everything I could think it should. But thanks anyway. >Aaron Avery, ASDG Inc. "A mime is a terrible thing to waste." -- Jukka Partanen, a CompSci student at the Helsinki Univ. of Tech., Finland jtp@hupu.hut.fi
dan@ivucsb.UUCP (Dan Howell) (04/16/89)
A few things I would like to see in 1.4 are:
1. Scrollable text windows built into the operating system. The Mac has it,
why not the Amiga? I would also like to see the scroll arrow gadgets
accessible rom the keyboard, with, for example, right-amiga-leftarrow &
right-amiga-rightarrow.
2. Since FastFonts makes text really fast, why not allow the option of
giving the NEWCON: (which will be CON: in 1.4, right?) a simple-refresh
window, so that us poor users with limited memory can save about 30K
per shell window. This combined with a scrollable text window will
give a *really* nice shell for the amiga. Maybe this could be the
NEWCON: of 1.4, where the NEWCON: of 1.3 becomes the CON: of 1.4.
3. QMouse built into ROM. I just downloaded this and I think it is
great. Since it is only 4K, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to
squeeze in there. I guess someone at Commodore could talk to
Lyman Epp about this.
By the way, are there any FD programs which give the functionality of 1 and 2
above? (I haven't downloaded any of the various shell programs, so I don't
know about them, but I want to make sure that the full functionality of the
1.3 NEWCON: is retained.)
--
-- Dan Howell <ivucsb!dan@anise.acc.com> <...!(pyramid|ucbvax)!ucsbcsl!
-- koyaanisqatsi <fr. Hopi> - nessus!ivucsb!dan>
n. 1. crazy life 2. life without order 3. life out of balance 4. a way of
life that calls for another way of living - syn. see 'graduate school'jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (04/19/89)
In article <734@ivucsb.UUCP> ivucsb!dan@anise.acc.com (Dan Howell) writes:
)A few things I would like to see in 1.4 are:
)
)1. Scrollable text windows built into the operating system.
Some other guy said this was trivial, and that he was going to dash it
off in his free time. This one is a big maybe.
)2. Since FastFonts makes text really fast, why not allow the option of
) giving the NEWCON: a simple-refresh window.
This is planned. You forgot cut-and-paste to/from consoles.
)3. QMouse built into ROM.
What is it? If it's a mouse accelerator, it's in there. If it's a hotkey
kind of deal, or a SunMouse deal, it will remain a utility, although
we plan a support library for such utilities.
)By the way, are there any FD programs which give the functionality of 1 and 2
)above?
They're pretty tough to glue in as replacements. If ConMan doesn't do it,
which it doesn't, it's probably not available.
jimm
--
Jim Mackraz, I and I Computing "He's hidden now, but you can see
{cbmvax,well,oliveb}!amiga!jimm The bubbles where he breathes."
- Shriekback
Opinions are my own. Comments are not to be taken as Commodore official policy.aleneis@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Tony Leneis) (04/22/89)
In article <515@laic.UUCP> darin@nova.UUCP (Darin Johnson) writes: >>)3. QMouse built into ROM. >>What is it? > >If it's what I think it is, it is neither of the things you mentioned. >Basically, all it does is test if a mouse button is held down or not. >Sounds silly, but I put it to good use in my startup-sequence, preceded >by: > > echo "Hold down a mouse button to skip workbench" QMouse is basically an enhanced DMouse written in assembly. It doesn't crash the Amiga like DMouse and it only takes up ~4K of disk space. QMouse has a lot of nice features, all selectable/deselectable upon startup. You can set the acceleration factor, the delay (in pixels) before the acceleration factor kicks in, auto screen blanking, sun mouse, click to front, click to back, window swapping, pointer blanker, clock & memory tachometer, ADos hot-keys, A-ESC newcli hotkey (this is better than PopCLI's because the cli's remember your old path's and assigns), and god knows what else... Also, you can run qmouse with a stack as small as 2000 bytes... I think I'd rather have all of QMouse's functions built into the os rather than put QMouse into the ROMs. Then we would have a more efficient system. (Of course I'd expect all the options to be setable from Preferences.) While you're at it, why not install VScreen in 1.4 as well? There are two things I'd like to see changed in QMouse - I don't think it should blank the pointer when you shuffle screens around with the A-M key, and I would prefer to be able to drag my clock around. - Tony Leneis
asaph@TAURUS.BITNET (05/01/89)
In article <922@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> aleneis@jarthur.UUCP (Tony Leneis) writes >In article <515@laic.UUCP> darin@nova.UUCP (Darin Johnson) writes: >QMouse is basically an enhanced DMouse written in assembly. It doesn't >crash the Amiga like DMouse and it only takes up ~4K of disk space. QMouse >has a lot of nice features, all selectable/deselectable upon startup. You [..... deleted .....] > - Tony Leneis Since I have started using Qmouse a few strange things have happend 1) sometimes the current time - memory from the clock appears on a random place in the screen. i.e. a type dir and as the directory lists one of the entries will be 405K 15:37 or one of the files in a file requester may have its name replaced by the current time/memory [The real name isn't changed its just listed wrongly until the next screen update] 2) This one is WIERD : sometimes - when using Qmouse - I will open a TxEd window and load a file into it - and a randomly chosen letters [or so it seems] will be displayed as a blank. The letter is there but just appears as a blank this effect remains active until the window is closed [Quit TxEd] and then reopened - refreshing doesn't fix it. 3) lately while typeing characters at the command line [shell actually] the character that I typed also appears as a blank instead of what I typed. Is this a bug ? maybe a virus ? [virusx 1.? didn't say anything] Thanx. Asaph Z.