astrog@garnet.berkeley.edu (Eric Korpela) (05/05/89)
In Article <GRIFF.89May3172946@intelob.intel.com> griff@intelob.intel.com (Richard Griffith) writes > [nothing of any import] > [several flames] > Let's cut the systems wars, guys. I've used many many windowing systems and not one of them is truly inadequate. They all do have problems but a lot of those problems are being solved. Windows: Used to be slow as hell, but that's been solved in the 386 version. Versions 1 and 286 only offer limited "cooperative" multitasking. 386 version offers true multitasking, though. Display speed is largely display dependent. If you use a slow VGA card be prepared to wait. Nice ability to handle many programs at a time (even in version 1) and swap dormant ones to disk. Amiga Workbench: Nice multitasking, but this is the least user friendly windowing system I've seen. You can't get by without the CLI. Nice and fast because of the BlT, though. The displays are real ugly. In general the graphics are not as good as they could be because of the poor quality of the monitors used on most amiga systems. GEM and ST GEM: I haven't used ST GEM too much, but I assume its a lot like PC GEM. It's nice and fast because it doesn't try to do too much at once. The displays are good and it does what it's supposed to. Crashes a lot less often then the previously mentioned ones. (I guess the latest versions of Amiga WB and Windows 386 are getting better, though.) Mac Finder: Used to be you couldn't play with a Mac for 10 minutes without crashing it, but at long last the finder works when you want it to. That is as long as you don't try a recently released upgrade. Apple seems to have a problem with releasing new versions before they are debugged. But overall this is the most polished of the interfaces. Some would say it's the most intuitive, also, but I think they say that because it's the one they learned first. Mac Multifinder: People asked for multitasking and they got it, well, almost. They got the ability to have multiple apps in memory almost running together. The print spooler works, though. The mutlitasking implemented is cooperative multitasking, not time slicing, so don't expect it to be "real" multitasking. The early releases were buggy. I don't know how it is now, because I haven't used it for over a year. Personally I liked "Switcher" better. Xwindows: Well, this one depends on where you use it and what window manager you use. Right now I'm using Xwindows on a PC RT with "rtxwm" I have to say it's like no other windows interface. It took me a while to learn to keep the arrow in the window I'm typing in. But I still use it, and it seems to be catching on. For distributed processing on different types of machines it can't be beat. Little software supports it though. (Now that is.) Sun View, DEC VMS windows interface, NeXT, ...: I've probably used most of them, but not enough to comment on their usability. These are my honest opinions. None of the interfaces is truly outstanding. Lets just forget the "my machine is better than yours" messages and get on with our lives. The differences between PC systems are in general marginal. They do what you program them to do. Unless you have a CRAY XM/P on your desk your machine is little different than those the rest of us use. /\ korpela@bkyast.berkeley.edu Internet /__\ rioch BKYAST::KORPELA 42215::KORPELA DecNet / \ of Chaos korpela%bkyast@ucbjade Bitnet (_____________________ <aka Eric Korpela> Why should the UC care what I say. According to them I'm not an employee.
kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (05/05/89)
In article <24036@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> astrog@garnet.berkeley.edu (Eric Korpela) writes:
Let's cut the systems wars, guys. I've used many many windowing systems
and not one of them is truly inadequate.
Actually, I've used many windowing systems and not one of them was
*adequate*. :) Though Intuition with its multi-screen approach comes
close to what I want. It's such a bastard to program though....
Amiga Workbench: Nice multitasking, but this is the least user friendly
windowing system I've seen. You can't get by without the CLI. Nice and
fast because of the BlT, though. The displays are real ugly. In general
the graphics are not as good as they could be because of the poor quality
of the monitors used on most amiga systems.
Ahh, so Workbench is supposed to be the windowing system? Hmmm. (I
can't say much on that, 'cause I used Workbench exactly once before
retreating to the CLI someone'd already customized for me.)
--
Robert Jude Kudla <kudla@pawl.rpi.edu> <kudla@acm.rpi.edu> <fw3s@RPITSMTS>
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(518)271-8624 // \\ \XX/ steely dan f.g.t.h. kate bush .....and even Rushles@unicads.UUCP (Les Milash) (05/05/89)
In article <KUDLA.89May5095132@pawl13.pawl.rpi.edu> kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: > Amiga Workbench: Nice multitasking, but this is the least user friendly > windowing system I've seen. You can't get by without the CLI. Nice and i agree. > fast because of the BlT, though. The displays are real ugly. In general > the graphics are not as good as they could be because of the poor quality > of the monitors used on most amiga systems. true, but i got a computer and a C compiler/debugger/editor/etc and a color monitor and enought ram to run it all ala ramdisk for $1300. so let's not be comparing salmon eggs to caviar w/o acknowledging as much. > >Ahh, so Workbench is supposed to be the windowing system? Hmmm. (I >can't say much on that, 'cause I used Workbench exactly once before >retreating to the CLI someone'd already customized for me.) ^^^ (this is the shell, for non-amigoids, "cmd line i/f") yes, and ran one in each window while another window is slowly accumulating ray traced pixels and another is panning around over a pixmap larger than the window while having graphics drawn in it. sorry to contribute to any net-war. I see the Ameager like the Apple][ of the '80s, like a Volkscomputer. moLester
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (05/06/89)
In article <24036@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> korpela@bkyast.berkeley.edu writes: >Windows: Used to be slow as hell, but that's been solved in the 386 version. Any speed problem can be solved by throwing hardware at it. Amiga windows are reasonably quick with a lowly 7MHz 68K. >Amiga Workbench: Nice multitasking, but this is the least user friendly >windowing system I've seen. You can't get by without the CLI. Yes. But I thought were were comparing windowing interfaces, not program launchers. WorkBench is lackluster, yes; but the window manager, Intuition, is rather nice. >GEM and ST GEM: I haven't used ST GEM too much, but I assume its a lot like >PC GEM. It's nice and fast because it doesn't try to do too much at once. If the PC version is fast, then something got lost in the ST translation. ST windows are (IMHO) slow. Response to clicking on gadgets is sluggish; I have to hold the button down for a rather long time for it to hear me. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
chad@cup.portal.com (Chad The-Walrus Netzer) (05/07/89)
[Born to Blit] In a previous article (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: )In article <24036@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> korpela@bkyast.berkeley.edu writes: )>GEM and ST GEM: I haven't used ST GEM too much, but I assume its a lot like )>PC GEM. It's nice and fast because it doesn't try to do too much at once. ) If the PC version is fast, then something got lost in the ST )translation. ST windows are (IMHO) slow. Response to clicking on gadgets )is sluggish; I have to hold the button down for a rather long time for it to )hear me. Nothing was lost in the translation... PC versions of GEM are slow also... UNLESS, you have a High-speed, Power thrusting, Silicon afterburning machine, in which case it is at least adequate. And you are not mistraken because you DO have to hold down the button for almost half a second before the pointer will pick up an icon (this sluggishness occurs on menu selections too, sometimes) In any case, speed is obviously not it's purpose in life... (Maybe "Pain" is...) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chad 'The_Walrus' Netzer -> AmigaManiac++ [Fancy quote omitted because all Portal users are immature teenagers who pick their noses and say, "Duh" to everyone...]
olaf@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Henjum) (05/08/89)
In article <420@unicads.UUCP>, les@unicads.UUCP (Les Milash) writes: > In article <KUDLA.89May5095132@pawl13.pawl.rpi.edu> kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: > > Amiga Workbench: Nice multitasking, but this is the least user friendly ... etc. deleted to get to the point! You may not be aware of this, but your discussion has somehow gotten cross-posted to a thoroughly unrelated newsgroup read mostly by shy people who wouldn't want to give offense unnecessarily. Please eliminate this questionable-at-best cross-posting to rec.arts.wobegon!