page%swap@Sun.COM (Bob Page) (05/20/89)
The problem Wes and Harv have with the Amiga is that they want it to be something Commodore is not interested in. CBM has repeatedly said (at user group meetings, AmiExpo, press interviews, etc) it is not after the broad "business" market, but want to target specific markets (albeit the markets the machine niched itself in years ago while CBM was trying to keep the Amiga a secret) like video, music, "desktop presentation" and the like (and I keep hearing rumors about 'education' but that's been 4 years of lip service). The fact is they aren't interested in getting the Amiga into engineering shops, government installations and all that. If it happens, great! But CBM has other priorities for its advertising/marketing dollars. Keep in mind I'm talking about the USA operation here. plouff@levers.dec.com (Wes Plouff) wrote: >I suggest that for Amiga to keep growing, in two years' time some >networking support must be standard on all Amigas. I bet 95% of the places where Commodore sells Amiga don't give a damn about networking. Sure, _we_ all want it for ourselves, but that's not enough. Telling Commodore they must have networking to grow just doesn't hold any water. They'd rather increase the ad budget for the PC line than hire network programmers and support staff for the Amiga. It comes down to expectations. Loyal Amiga Fans (I include myself) want the Amiga to get into Fortune 500 companies, into government offices, etc, in large quantities .. similar to IBM, so more hardware and software can become available, so they can feel justified in their purchase, and all that. But we want the Amiga to be something that Commodore doesn't. It's a multitasking machine with great graphics and sound, and it plays great games. It's a fun computer that has a few serious software applications. And it appears that's all CBM/USA wants it to be. Is that such a bad thing? This is just MY opinion/observation of course. As I said, I consider myself a Loyalist, and in fact I'm working on some networking software for the Amiga now. I'll admit I don't understand why CBM is making a UNIX for the Amiga (non-networked at that!). I think they're just confused, but I keep telling myself they're shrewd and have a Strategy. The Moral of this story: don't get so worked up about where the Amiga is not. Get worked up about where the Amiga is. Use it, enjoy it. Let Commodore worry (or not) about selling the machine. ..bob
plouff@levers.dec.com (Wes Plouff) (05/20/89)
Recent postings in this newsgroup on the next Macintosh Finder release,
OS/2, Amiga's market position, E-mail and a couple of others can be tied
together by a common thread. This week I attended the Engineering
Workstation Conference in Boston, and came away with a new perspective
on personal computers (including Amiga) -- the high end models are
becoming more workstation-like.
At a seminar on economic justification(!) for workstations, one
presenter showed a slide of historic trends in bottom-of-the-line
workstations. The cost curve has flattened out at around $10,000 for a
reasonable working system with hard disk. Performance has been taking
off, though. For that $10K you can buy 4-15 MIPS, up dramatically from
even a year or two ago.
Later on, the panel wandered off into defining what an acceptable
workstation was. Their criteria (paraphrased) were:
- multitasking
- good computing performance
- good graphics performance
- good network connectivity
Since these people all had hardware from several vendors, they also
preferred the ability to port applications to new hardware rapidly.
[Raising asbestos shield...]
Looking at the new operating systems offered by Microsoft/IBM and Apple,
you can see, IMO, that they are trying to meet these criteria and expand
the workstation market downward in price. Or perhaps also expand the
price range of their product lines upward. OS/2, especially with
Presentation Manager, is trying to address the first and fourth points
along with the portability question. Apple is playing catch-up on
multitasking, and feeling the effects of design decisions made years
ago. The personals that cost a fraction of $10K are trying to offer
some fraction of $10K workstation features and performance.
Technical goodness of these implementations is another question. I
agree with much recent criticism of those Other Operating Systems, but
want to focus here on goals and purpose.
If "mainline" personal computers are evolving toward being reduced-
capability workstations, where does this leave Amiga? Amy does pretty
well at computing performance and multitasking. Its graphics are,
unquestionably, excellent in its price range. Porting UNIX applications
even turns out to be not so hard. But the family has no supported
networking. Sure, you can buy Ameristar Ethernet products, and someone
else's Appletalk stuff, or use some of the excellent public domain
networking software packages, but Commodore networking products and
system software are nonexistent.
Sales to big business, education, and within the next couple of years,
IMO, even small companies will depend on the ability of Amiga to execute
the most common network services: electronic mail, file transfer, and
remote disk access. All the individual owners reading this conference
will surely find creative ways to use this stuff, too.
I suggest that for Amiga to keep growing, in two years' time some
networking support must be standard on all Amigas. At worst, the
typical hard drive-equipped owner should be able to install something
off his Extras disk, plug in his Commodore or 3rd party network card,
run a setup program and go. Otherwise, well.... say, this is a great
game machine!
BTW, those who think I don't appreciate Amiga's current networking
capabilities should study my signature.
--
Wes Plouff, Digital Equipment Corp, Littleton, Mass.
plouff%levers.dec@decwrl.dec.com
- or - {harvard,ulowell}!m2c!jjmhome!beeline!plouff
Networking bibliography: _Islands in the Net_, by Bruce Sterling
_The Matrix_, Digital Press, forthcomingpaolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (05/21/89)
In article <105883@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> page@sun.UUCP (Bob Page) writes:
->The problem Wes and Harv have with the Amiga is that they want it to
->be something Commodore is not interested in. CBM has repeatedly said
->(at user group meetings, AmiExpo, press interviews, etc) it is not
->after the broad "business" market, but want to target specific markets
->(albeit the markets the machine niched itself in years ago while CBM
->was trying to keep the Amiga a secret) like video, music, "desktop
->presentation" and the like (and I keep hearing rumors about
->'education' but that's been 4 years of lip service). The fact is they
->aren't interested in getting the Amiga into engineering shops,
->government installations and all that. If it happens, great! But CBM
->has other priorities for its advertising/marketing dollars.
->
->Keep in mind I'm talking about the USA operation here.
I think that you are probably right, but I was just reading something
about Copperman being hired to take care of the US operations, and in
the article said that Commodore wants to increase its penetration in the
educational market and expand the use of value-added resellers as well
as to enhance the dealer distribution network. It said that this
strategy was intended to expand Commodore's presence in business,
government and educational markets without affecting its strength in the
consumer sector.
So I think that either Commodore should put up or shut up. If they think
that the way to get in the educational market is just with lip service,
than maybe somebody should tell them to study Apple's example. If
they think that they can get in the business or government market
without networking, with or without UNIX, they are plain dum and should
should be told that they should just stick with the low end consumer market,
because obviously they don't understand the markets they are trying to
get into.
--
-+= SAM =+-
"the best things in life are free"
ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.govwbralick@afit-ab.arpa (Will Bralick) (05/23/89)
In article <105883@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> page@sun.UUCP (Bob Page) writes:
)
) [stuff deleted ...]
)
)It comes down to expectations. Loyal Amiga Fans (I include myself)
)want the Amiga to get into Fortune 500 companies, into government
)offices, etc, in large quantities .. similar to IBM, so more hardware
)and software can become available, so they can feel justified in their
)purchase, and all that. But we want the Amiga to be something that
)Commodore doesn't. It's a multitasking machine with great graphics
)and sound, and it plays great games. It's a fun computer that has a
)few serious software applications. And it appears that's all CBM/USA
)wants it to be. Is that such a bad thing?
Would Commodore be interested in selling the Amiga 2x00 in OEM
quantities (and prices :-) to some enterprising engineer/entrepreneurs
who would like to exploit the low-end workstation market niche?
The same group could acquire Amiga 500s in OEM quantities and
turn them into edustations for grade/high schools. Commodore might
even be willing to provide some of the seed capital for this kind
of venture where they could maintain an equity interest in the
startup and broaden their market base. Perhaps Motorola would
also be interested in providing some of the capital.
Given the obvious price/performance advantage of the Amiga and the
multitasking o/s, another (related) market gap is a networked
(X-window based?) Ada-based (sneer if you like, but there is
gold in them thar hills) CASE environment. Motorola might be
interested in doing this one themselves, since they are developing
Ada-based systems even as I type.
)
) [more deleted ...]
)
)The Moral of this story: don't get so worked up about where the Amiga
)is not. Get worked up about where the Amiga is. Use it, enjoy it.
)Let Commodore worry (or not) about selling the machine.
My moral is -- if you see a market gap that the Amiga could address,
get out there and claim it as your very own. I bet that CBM would be
more than happy with your success, and would probably even lend extensive
technical support.
Regards,
--
Will Bralick | ... when princes think more of
wbralick@blackbird.afit.af.mil | luxury than of arms, they lose
wbralick@afit-ab.arpa | their state.
with disclaimer; use disclaimer; | - Niccolo Machiavelli