john@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) (05/27/89)
DEC has a really neat way of playing with windows on their workstations. When you click and drag a window around on the screen, you can move the window so parts of it go off the edge of the screen. This is analagous to moving SCREENS up and down with AmigaDOS right now, but I woyuld like to see it applied to windows. This would be great for the workbench, especially when you have four to ten windows open and you want to have a peek at what is visible on the workbench in terms of Icons and such. There are several problems/assumptions you have to make about this scheme. 1) Does the window take up RAM when it is off the screen. i.e. does the Amiga continue to treat the screen as "normal" and just not display the parts that aren't visible, or should it ignore the parts out of view totally. 2) How is refresh handled? If I drag a window off to the side, go do some work on another window, then drag the first window back, what happens. Does the window come on back as just the visible corner until you release it and it refreshes, or is it continually refreshed (only the border is really needed) as it becomes more visible. 3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? All four? Or just left, right, down? Can the mouse move off the screen too? 4) What do other people think? -- John Stoffel | john@wpi.bitnet | What can you expect of a day WPI, Box 2432 | john@wpi.wpi.edu | that begins with getting up Worcester, MA 01609 | husc6!m2c!wpi!john | in the morning? --Damm the Disclaimers! Full flame ahead!--
sysop@tlvx.UUCP (SysOp) (05/27/89)
In article <2459@wpi.wpi.edu>, john@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) writes: > > > DEC has a really neat way of playing with windows on their > workstations. When you click and drag a window around on the screen, > you can move the window so parts of it go off the edge of the screen. Have you played with the hack that's called something like "vscreen"? It makes a workbench that's much larger than your screen size. This would have the effect on windows that you're looking for, since you can push windows to areas off-screen. It's been a while since I ran it, but I think it takes up RAM for the whole screen. I was surprised to see it run tho; it scrolls fast too. Basically, Vscreen is like having a huge workbench, with the monitor as a window into it. [text deleted] > 1) Does the window take up RAM when it is off the screen. i.e. does [text deleted] I guess taking up RAM would make things easier. Programs will still want to write/draw to their display, whether or not the window is on the screen. > > 2) How is refresh handled? If I drag a window off to the side, go do [text deleted] > (only the border is really needed) as it becomes more visible. > > 3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? All four? > Or just left, right, down? Can the mouse move off the screen too? Moving the mouse to the edge of screen causes everything to scroll, so you can see more workbench off in that direction, in Vscreen. > > 4) What do other people think? Well, I really don't know about the technical problems that need to be addressed. I seem to recall the author of Vscreen saying that he included the source in the hopes that it might get thrown into a future OS. As it is, Vscreen will likely break after significant OS or machine changes. > > > -- > John Stoffel | john@wpi.bitnet | What can you expect of a day > WPI, Box 2432 | john@wpi.wpi.edu | that begins with getting up > Worcester, MA 01609 | husc6!m2c!wpi!john | in the morning? > --Damm the Disclaimers! Full flame ahead!-- -- Gary Wolfe usenet: ..uunet!mimsy!ames!mailrus!uflorida!unf7!tlvx!sysop BBS : SysOp of The Temporal Vortex BBS at 904-771-8589
stephan@cup.portal.com (Stephen Derek Schaem) (05/28/89)
Well I don't know if these one was posted already.But on the IRIS workstation like in my programes the menu apear under your mouse at any screen position. That way you don't have to mouse you mouse around like a mad mam to have a simple option.The menu idea I took from work is simple, the menu only has one main menu, each item can open a nother menu of the like. The menu will ALWAY open on the screen, put the mouse might apear at dirent place in the menu(more exactly the menu itslef will be open wrong the mouse position and the screen border limite. It act exactly like the amiga menu.I can tell that give a Certain look to any aplication I done using that kind of menu! The curent version will soon be included in the NS.library with 50 other user interface rouitne and alot of screen utilites, all writen in 680x0 assembler. Well if it doesn't apear in 1.4 you can still get that from me:-)
stephan@cup.portal.com (Stephen Derek Schaem) (05/28/89)
Well your idea if good and already exit in a way.Have you seen Vscreen? It was introduced in maybe a year ago, and enable you to open Virtual screen of 1024xXXX (the amiga limit the way it was done). if you are placed in the midle of the V screen you can move place window in any direction, and scroll the screen by 'pushing' the pointer out of the screen boundary. The only probleme with that solution if the menu! but if you read my other artivcle I offer a nice way to solve that problem and offer in the same time a other kind of menu..The rotine don't take more than 5k in Ram/rom:-)
dale@boing.UUCP (Dale Luck) (05/28/89)
In article <18877@cup.portal.com> stephan@cup.portal.com (Stephen Derek Schaem) writes:
=
= Well your idea if good and already exit in a way.Have you seen Vscreen?
=It was introduced in maybe a year ago, and enable you to open Virtual
=screen of 1024xXXX (the amiga limit the way it was done).
= if you are placed in the midle of the V screen you can move place window
=in any direction, and scroll the screen by 'pushing' the pointer out of the
=screen boundary.
I wonder if I can VScreen an X Window Screen on the Amiga.
Pop up Menus? How many do you want. We have several flavors.
Maybe somebody out there with both can try it.
--
Dale Luck GfxBase/Boing, Inc.
{uunet!cbmvax|pyramid}!amiga!boing!dalebmacintyre@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Blair MacIntyre) (05/29/89)
In article <2459@wpi.wpi.edu> john@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) writes: >[ addressing the concept of draging windows off the screen ] >1) Does the window take up RAM when it is off the screen. i.e. does >the Amiga continue to treat the screen as "normal" and just not >display the parts that aren't visible, or should it ignore the parts >out of view totally. I think that if this should be implemented, the most intuitive way would be to consider the metaphore of a windowing system and how this could possibly fit in: it seems that you should think of the window as being the visible area of you "workbench" and, as such, the offscreen parts or a window would be obscured using the same semantics as if they were obscured onscreen. Therefore, use the window flags ( SMART_REFRESH, etc) to determine the right solution for that window ... >2) How is refresh handled? If I drag a window off to the side, go do >some work on another window, then drag the first window back, what >happens. Does the window come on back as just the visible corner >until you release it and it refreshes, or is it continually refreshed >(only the border is really needed) as it becomes more visible. Again, as above. What happens when you move a partially obscured window now? Consistency and predictability are the key! It would seem that it would redraw when you stop moving it, or whatever the type of window it is normally does ... >3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? All four? >Or just left, right, down? Can the mouse move off the screen too? In order: yes, (yes, yes, yes, yes), no. It would be unintuitive for the mouse to move of screen. There is no visual feedback, so the user would get panicy very fast. As for what parts of the window can go off screen, simple: what ever part can move offscreen while keeping the mouse that is dragging it on screen. Since you move by grabing the drag bar at the top, there is very little you could do in terms of moving off the top, but that is a function of the interaction technique, not the windowing system. >4) What do other people think? I think it would be a nice addition. It's one of those things that impresses people at a low (?) cost. Of course, someone better write an "onscreen" command to force all windows back onscreen!! -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///-= = Blair MacIntyre, bmacintyre@watcgl.{waterloo.edu, UWaterloo.ca} \\\/// = = now appearing at the Computer Graphics Lab, U of Waterloo! \XX/ = = "Don't be mean ... remember, no matter where you go, there you are." BBanzai=
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (05/30/89)
> Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 26-May-89 Yet Another God Damm 1.4 > Su.. John F Stoffel@wpi.wpi.e (1567) > DEC has a really neat way of playing with windows on their > workstations. When you click and drag a window around on the screen, > you can move the window so parts of it go off the edge of the screen. Yeah, the Macintosh lets you do that too. > There are several problems/assumptions > you have to make about this scheme. No, not really. The entire matter is identical to having a window partially obscured by another window on the display. In this case the "other window" is the non-existent area past the edge of the display. It should be pretty painless to implement. > 3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? All four? > Or just left, right, down? Can the mouse move off the screen too? The Macintosh does not let you move a window off the display so that it cannot be grabbed with the mouse and moved back. So, you can move the window almost all the way off the screen on the left,right or bottom, but only to the edge of the window's titlebar off the top. The Mac doesn't let the mouse move off the screen, except if you have more than one screen (where the Desktop becomes the union of all the active display devices). I do hope Intuition for V1.4 allows windows to be moved off-screen, as well as providing Iconify and Zoom gadgets as a standard feature. -- Michael Portuesi * Carnegie Mellon University INTERNET: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu * BITNET: mp1u+@andrew UUCP: ...harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!mp1u+ MAIL: Carnegie Mellon University, P.O. Box 259, Pittsburgh, PA 15213
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/30/89)
In article <2459@wpi.wpi.edu> john@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) writes: >[ addressing the concept of draging windows off the screen ] >1) Does the window take up RAM when it is off the screen. If it's smart-refresh or superbitmap, yes. Otherwise, no. >2) How is refresh handled? Same as currently. >If I drag a window off to the side, go do >some work on another window, then drag the first window back, what >happens. Does the window come on back as just the visible corner >until you release it and it refreshes, or is it continually refreshed >(only the border is really needed) as it becomes more visible. You just drag the red square on screen, then the window gets refreshed when you release the button. >3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? Down, left, and right. Not up, because the drag-bar is at the top. You should not be able to drag the window far enough that the drag-bar becomes invisible. >4) What do other people think? Well, other window systems allow this, mostly. -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.hackercorp.com 'U`
deven@rpi.edu (Deven Corzine) (05/30/89)
In article <3886@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > >4) What do other people think? Standard iconification would be far more valuable... Deven -- shadow@[128.113.10.2] <shadow@pawl.rpi.edu> Deven T. Corzine (518) 272-5847 shadow@[128.113.10.201] <shadow@acm.rpi.edu> 2346 15th St. Pi-Rho America deven@rpitsmts.bitnet <userfxb6@rpitsmts> Troy, NY 12180-2306 <<tionen>> "Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible." - A.K.
bob@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (robert s. richardson) (05/31/89)
First, let me say I dont want to start a flame war on colorful metaphor semantics, especially not on comp.sys.amiga, so please reply with private mail if you have anything particularly nasty to say to and/or about me. OK, here goes. I am not personally offended by the language used in the subject line above, but I know people who are but didnt want to raise a stink on the net. It is one thing to use potentially offensive language within a posting, and it is often appropriate. To use it in a subject heading, especially where such language was not necessary to convey attitude or point, is somewhat irresponsible. Subject headings hang around a lot longer than postings. I dont know who the original poster was, and I'm sure there was no intent to offend. All I'm saying is let's be sensitive to other net users value systems. I'm not saying you have no right to use that syntax on the net. I'm not saying I don't swear. I do and find nothing wrong with it. But I dont swear in the company of others who would take offense. So, fellow netters, let's be civil and change subject lines like the above to something more appropriate and remember we are on an international and diverse network with many different users from vastly different backgrounds. I now turn the soap box over to the public domain. Thanks for listening. +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bob Richardson (or, for you UNIX buffs: bob@jacobs.cs.orst.edu) | | 220 NW 21st, Corvallis, OR 97330 503-758-5018 "We Never Open" | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE NOTE NEW NETWORK NAME ABOVE (was richarr@nikola). MAIL TO | | OLD ACCOUNT MAY NOT REACH ME. THANK YOU. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
mp1u+%andrew.cmu.edu@mitvma.mit.edu (Michael Portuesi) (06/05/89)
----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >> Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.sys.amiga: 26-May-89 Yet Another God Damm 1.4 >> Su.. John F Stoffel@wpi.wpi.e (1567) > >> DEC has a really neat way of playing with windows on their >> workstations. When you click and drag a window around on the screen, >> you can move the window so parts of it go off the edge of the screen. > > >Yeah, the Macintosh lets you do that too. That's reason enough not to do it ;-). >> There are several problems/assumptions >> you have to make about this scheme. > >No, not really. The entire matter is identical to having a window >partially obscured by another window on the display. In this case the >"other window" is the non-existent area past the edge of the display. >It should be pretty painless to implement. > >> 3) Which directions can you move a window off the screen? All four? >> Or just left, right, down? Can the mouse move off the screen too? > > >The Macintosh does not let you move a window off the display so that it >cannot be grabbed with the mouse and moved back. So, you can move the >window almost all the way off the screen on the left,right or bottom, >but only to the edge of the window's titlebar off the top. The Mac >doesn't let the mouse move off the screen, except if you have more than >one screen (where the Desktop becomes the union of all the active >display devices). > >I do hope Intuition for V1.4 allows windows to be moved off-screen, as >well as providing Iconify and Zoom gadgets as a standard feature. Iconify, sure. Please forget zoom gadgets. It is possible to implement a windowing environment without copying the Mac. Micro Soft did it. >-- >Michael Portuesi * Carnegie Mellon University >INTERNET: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu * BITNET: mp1u+@andrew >UUCP: ...harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!mp1u+ >MAIL: Carnegie Mellon University, P.O. Box 259, Pittsburgh, PA 15213 /* F. Michael Theilig OHA101 at URIACC.Bitnet "There is no Dark Side of the Moon... in fact it is all dark." */