dooley@helios.toronto.edu (Kevin Dooley) (05/24/89)
[bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth]
Ok, here is the problem. Because of religious differences, I have
been unable to convince the group of people with whom I work that
the Amiga is the most amazing thing since sliced bread. Some of
them insist upon Mic's and some swear that MS-Dog *is* sliced bread.
The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing
a single (PostScript) laser printer? I have heard that the answer
is TOPS, but my local Amiga dealer says that it doesn't exist for the
Amiga. What gives? I find this hard to believe. Even so, there
must be a way to make everybody happy (ethernet?). Please can anybody
help me out? If the Amiga can't be easily tied into this network,
then we simply won't be buying Amigas. Please post or e-mail me
any ideas you might have. Thanks,
Kevin
--
Kevin Dooley UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!dooley
Physics Dept. BITNET - dooley@utorphys
U. of Toronto INTERNET - dooley@helios.physics.utoronto.cadwl10@uts.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) (05/25/89)
In article <808@helios.toronto.edu> dooley@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Kevin Dooley) writes: >[bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth] > >Ok, here is the problem. Because of religious differences, I have >been unable to convince the group of people with whom I work that >the Amiga is the most amazing thing since sliced bread. Some of >them insist upon Mic's and some swear that MS-Dog *is* sliced bread. >The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing >a single (PostScript) laser printer? I have heard that the answer >is TOPS, but my local Amiga dealer says that it doesn't exist for the >Amiga. What gives? I find this hard to believe. Even so, there >must be a way to make everybody happy (ethernet?). Please can anybody >help me out? If the Amiga can't be easily tied into this network, >then we simply won't be buying Amigas. Please post or e-mail me >any ideas you might have. Thanks, > Kevin >-- > Kevin Dooley UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!dooley > Physics Dept. BITNET - dooley@utorphys > U. of Toronto INTERNET - dooley@helios.physics.utoronto.ca You need a little known device called an "A-B-C switch". It lets you switch the printer to whatever system needs it. There are also electronic (read: Expensive) switches that will automatically switch the printer to a requesting computer. -- "What is another word | Dave Lowrey | [The opinions expressed MAY be for 'Thesaurus'?" | Amdahl Corp. | those of the author and are not | Houston, Texas | necessarily those of his Steven Wright | amdahl!dwl10 | employer] (`nuff said!)
fetrow@bones.stat.washington.edu (Dave Fetrow) (05/26/89)
In article <88G002rZ2c1g01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> dwl10@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) writes: [ situation: A lab full of PC's, Macs and an Amiga ] >>The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing >>a single (PostScript) laser printer? ....... >>There must be a way to make everybody happy (ethernet?). > >You need a little known device called an "A-B-C switch". It lets >you switch the printer to whatever system needs it. {He also mentioned automatic, more expensive, switches} Sadly; this may be insufficient. On most Laser Printers I have dealt with (the whole of the Apple line, TI OmniLaser) you have to pick a particular port before starting it up (or at best, manually selecting one [and only one] from a control panel). Take the Apple: The Macs' will insist on the AppleTalk port. The Amiga will need the serial port. The PC's can use either (with the additions of TOPS or similar hardware/software). You see the problem? Neither port can serve all three at the same time. If you don't mind having to get up and manually changing which port is enabled, you can get a TI OmniLaser (or any of several others) which can change ports from a control panel (an extra benefit -- many have a Centronics interface as well, which is easiest to use with PC's and Amigas). Other printers (e.g. Apple) make you use small dip switches and reboot (!) in order to change ports. This is fairly unworkable. I don't know of any printer that implements the optimum solution (allowing all ports to be enabled and printing from whatever one is sending info at the time, while blocking the other two) but perhaps they exist. I don't mean this as a scree against the LaserWriters. I love them very much but they are a little akward to use in the environment described. If you don't need to change ports on the fly; they are very nice indeed. -dave fetrow- fetrow@bones.biostat.washington.edu dfetrow@uwalocke (bitnet) {uunet}!uw-beaver!uw-entropy!fetrow "It's 1989! I'm supposed to take a language with `cards' in it seriously?"
elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) (05/26/89)
> In article <808@helios.toronto.edu> dooley@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Kevin Dooley) writes: >>The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing >>a single (PostScript) laser printer? I have heard that the answer >>is TOPS, but my local Amiga dealer says that it doesn't exist for the >>Amiga. That's probably because most Amigans came from "real" computer systems (i.e. not single-tasking PC's), where network print daemons are a way of life. Ameristar's Ethernet hardware works just great if you have a Unix computer somewhere around running the Internet suite and NFS. Alas, as far as I know, nobody has given any thought to networking Amigas to IBM PCs and Macs. Ameristar once was working on something of the sort, a long long time ago, at least according to their early announcements... but any such products never appeared. C Ltd. has announced a SCSI laser printer that would let several SCSI-equipped Amigas share a laser printer.... >> What gives? I find this hard to believe. Well, there's maybe 200,000 Amiga 2000's, and hardware is expensive to develop. Yes, I do believe this is a good marketing niche, and that SOMEONE should do the hardware.... but it won't be cheap. I might note that software might be a problem. However, there may soon be networking software available, needing only minor modifications to talk to a DOS server for basic services like, e.g., print server. >>help me out? If the Amiga can't be easily tied into this network, >>then we simply won't be buying Amigas. Please post or e-mail me Guess y'all won't be buying Amigas, then. Even if everybody started frantically working this very minute, it takes at least six months to move from initial design sketch to production, and even longer for complex hardware/software intertwined projects. Maybe someone has been working on a AmigaDOS-to-Mac/MSDOS network gateway for the last 6 months and is ready to introduce it tomorrow -- but, if so, they've certainly kept mum about it. -- Eric Lee Green P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509 ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg (318)989-9849 Bcase: "I have seen or heard "designer of the 68000" attached to so many names that I can only guess that the 68000 was produced by Cecil B. DeMile."
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (05/26/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 23590; Thu 25-May-89 15:49:42 PDT
Date: Thu, 25 May 89 15:48 PDT
From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: Amiga networking puzzle
To: "eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM
In-Reply-To: Your message of 25 May 89 13:55 PDT
Message-ID: <19890525224849.5.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
In message <88G002rZ2c1g01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> Dave Lowrey <dwl10@uts.amdahl.com>
You need a little known device called an "A-B-C switch". It lets
you switch the printer to whatever system needs it.
I would be a bit more cautious than simply hooking up a switcher to the
laser printer. Not that I know lots about Mics, MS-Dogs, Amigas, postscript, OR
laser printers, but I used (thankfully for a short time only) a set up where a Mac
(on AppleTalk) and a Symbolics network (on IP-TCP) were sharing a switched laser
printer. Each network had a different connection to the printer (it was an Apple
Laser Writer), one on appletalk and the other a 9600 baud rs232. As well as having
different connectors, a switch on the back of the printer had to be flipped. Even
with the right connectors and switches on the printer's end, the real problem was
occuring in the Symbolics software. I don't think that the apple had any trouble
with the printer, but I'm not sure. In fact, with an ibm/mac/amiga setup, each
system may be simple (at least relative to sharing between the TCP network and
appletalk) enough to share the printer without too much software hassle. The main
problem with the symbolics software was that it made assumptions about the
printer's availability and such, and often required power-cycling the printer when
switching, and sometimes even rebooting the printer server workstation (a rather
drastic measure just to print a file. . .most of the time it was easier not to
print anything).
Not to say it can't be done, because it *should* be as simple as a switchbox.
Considering the operating systems of the three machines, it should be no trouble.
I just wanted to caution you before going out and assuming it's all going to work
smoothly that perhaps you ought to check first with someone who's done it or who
can verify that it will work.
Monty Kosma
rayz@CSUStan.EDU (Ray Zarling) (05/27/89)
In article <8198@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) writes: >> In article <808@helios.toronto.edu> dooley@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Kevin Dooley) writes: >>>The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing >>>a single (PostScript) laser printer? I have heard that the answer >>>is TOPS, but my local Amiga dealer says that it doesn't exist for the >>>Amiga. > >That's probably because most Amigans came from "real" computer systems >(i.e. not single-tasking PC's), where network print daemons are a way >of life. Ameristar's Ethernet hardware works just great if you have a >Unix computer somewhere around running the Internet suite and NFS. I'll second that--it's a *great* way to configure Amigas and other computers to a LaserWriter. Unfortunately, it's a little on the expensive side unless you have some of the pieces already on hand. We use a Sun connected to the LaserWriter via EtherNet and a Kinetics Fast Path. The LaserWriter looks just like any other printer to the Sun, and print spooling is handled normally via lpr. On my Amiga I use the AmeriStar card and their NFS software. I "mount" the Sun as a device on the amiga, and generate any postscript output to file Sun:blah, which of course lives on the Sun. Then a simple rsh command (which I have embedded in an Amiga shell script so I can forget the details) invokes the Sun lpr to print the file on the LaserWriter. No physical switches; other computers including pc's and other Unix boxes route their printouts through lpr similarly. BTW the AmeriStar rlogin software is a *far* superior way to read news than my previous 2400 baud serial line! --Ray Zarling Calif. State Univ. Stanislaus rayz@koko.csustan.edu
paolucci@snll-arpagw.UUCP (Sam Paolucci) (05/28/89)
In article <1458@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu> fetrow@bones.UUCP () writes: ->In article <88G002rZ2c1g01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> dwl10@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) writes: ->[ situation: A lab full of PC's, Macs and an Amiga ] -> ->>>The problem, then is how can we all live in peace and harmony sharing ->>>a single (PostScript) laser printer? ....... ->>>There must be a way to make everybody happy (ethernet?). OK, here's how I do it. 1. First I settled on ethernet as the transmission protocol, because it is standard in the sense that Amigas, Macs, PCs, as well as mainframes can make use of it. 2. I wrote a couple of programs, one a server and one a client. The server runs on an Amiga as a background process. This Amiga has a PostScript printer attached to it via the serial port. The server program is portable enough that it can be recompiled and run on a UNIX machine, a VMS machine, and possibly on a Mac or PC. I say possibly, because in order to recompile the code you need to have access to a socket library. Note that one can obtain a socket library from Ameristar for the Amiga, but the version I use contains quite a few more function than those supplied by Ameristar. The important thing is that the server runs on the machine that has direct access to the printer. 3. The client program is a remote print utility. This program is also portable enough with the same restrictions and limitations as the server. This program gets executed on any machine that wants to print something. Currently I run it on Amigas, UNIX, and VAX/VMS machines. Anytime I want to print something, say from our VMS mainframe while I'm logged on from the Amiga, I just say "print servername filter file1 file2 ...", where servername is the host name of the machine that's running the server, filter is the name of the filter that the server should use, and then come the files that you want printed. Here there are a few things to note. First, if you only have one print server or always use the same server, then it is very easy to define an alias so that you don't have to type the server name every time. Second, the server invokes a filter in processing the file. So if I have a program listing that I want printed, I tell it to use the a2ps filter that I wrote (and which was posted not long ago) to print the file. If the file is already in PostScript, then I use the copy filter so the server just copies it to the printer. If it is an IFF file, the I tell it to use iff2ps as the filter to print. And finally if it is a Tektronix plot file, I tell it to use tek2ps (soon to be sent to Bob Page to post). All of the above I also do from the Amiga directly. Again note that using aliases you could have printiff, printtek, printps, or printlst (or whatever) to invoke the different aliases. Now, before I get a lot of mail, let me just say that as soon as I feel that the print client and server utilities are stable enough and all checked out, I will sent them to Bob Page to post. In the meantime, PLEASE wait until then and don't send mail. You won't get them any sooner than that. Anyway, this is my solution. What do you think. Any suggestions? -- -+= SAM =+- "the best things in life are free" ARPA: paolucci@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov
rminnich@super.ORG (Ronald G Minnich) (05/31/89)
In article <8198@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) writes: >Guess y'all won't be buying Amigas, then. Even if everybody started >frantically working this very minute, it takes at least six months to >move from initial design sketch to production, and even longer for >complex hardware/software intertwined projects. Maybe someone has been >working on a AmigaDOS-to-Mac/MSDOS network gateway for the last 6 >months and is ready to introduce it tomorrow -- but, if so, they've >certainly kept mum about it. it is a shame, amiga has been in the right standard set from the very beginning, i.e. tcp/ip from Ameristar. But because of the weirdo-voodoo Mac-style networks out there everyone thinks the problem is the Amiga ... sigh. Anyway, get a Kinetics box to take Appletalk to something real. Then tie in your A2000s via Ameristar Enet cards. Voila, your Macs are now able to talk to a real network and come up to the standard Amiga (and Sun, and Dec, and anybody real) has hewed to now for, oh, what, 2.5 years? ron p.s. Just say to yourself, over and over, 'i hate appletalk'. You will feel much better.
billc@percival.UUCP (William J. Coldwell) (06/02/89)
In article <9658@super.ORG> rminnich@super.UUCP (Ronald G Minnich) writes: >In article <8198@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) writes: >>Guess y'all won't be buying Amigas, then. Even if everybody started >>frantically working this very minute, it takes at least six months to >>move from initial design sketch to production, and even longer for >>complex hardware/software intertwined projects. Maybe someone has been >>working on a AmigaDOS-to-Mac/MSDOS network gateway for the last 6 >>months and is ready to introduce it tomorrow -- but, if so, they've >>certainly kept mum about it. Ok, so we've been a little quiet on the subject - after all, don't you just hate people announcing things before they're ready? (like the Toaster?) Well, we've been working on a MultiPort Board that handles AppleTalk over an RS-422. As for how long before you can buy it? June 16th for the MultiPort Board, and about a week later (or 2 if I go to DevCon) for the AppleTalk networking software. >ron >p.s. Just say to yourself, over and over, 'i hate appletalk'. You will >feel much better. Ok, I said it, and no - I don't feel better, it won't go away... I have nightmares of a Banana Jr. 6000 computer chasing me screaming "ATP, NBP, PAP..." ;-) Bill -- William J. Coldwell - Amiga Attitude Adjuster Creative Microsystem Inc. 19552 SW 90th CT Tualatin OR 97062 (503) 691-2552 "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, ...tektronix!reed!percival!billc are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful." \sequent!calvin/
mclek@dcatla.UUCP (Larry E. Kollar) (06/03/89)
In article <9658@super.ORG> rminnich@super.UUCP (Ronald G Minnich) writes: >it is a shame, amiga has been in the right standard set from the very >beginning, i.e. tcp/ip from Ameristar. But because of the >weirdo-voodoo Mac-style networks out there everyone thinks the problem is >the Amiga ... sigh. AppleTalk is hard to beat for ease of installation, though. No screwdrivers need apply; just plug the network box into the back of the computer, hook up the cables, and start using it. A bunch of tech writers* can set it up in 10 minutes. At $50/connection, it's the only bargain Apple ever offered. If that's voodoo, go ahead and hex me! Compare with Ethernet, especially on IBMs: set the DIP switches on the card, open the computer, install the card, and put the lid back on the computer. OK, now for the cable. You have to tap in at a certain spot for each station for the transceiver (or do you use an LNI instead?). Maybe a T-splice for thin Ethernet; I haven't looked too close. Now, you do something called "tuning" the network. This isn't voodoo, it's just plain black magic! Now, how do you connect your PostScript printer to it? It has to be attached to someone's computer, borrowing CPU cycles to serve everyone else (or dedicate a machine as a print server, for even more $$$$). Finally, see how much it costs and say to yourself, "do we really need 10 Mbps?" >p.s. Just say to yourself, over and over, 'i hate appletalk'. You will >feel much better. It's hard to hate something so cheap and easy. AppleTalk is what got the Mac's foot in the office door. Yes, the performance is inferior. Yes, it's a "weirdo" protocol. On the other hand, it's what LANs should have been in the first place. I was happy to see the announcement for an Amiga AppleTalk card; it'll get more Amigas into the art departments of the world (see? we can do this fantastic line art *and* get to the LaserWriter). *No slur intended against tech writers; I'm one myself. On the average, we're just more interested in getting our work done than in having the "best" or "most efficient" network. -- Larry Kollar ...!gatech!dcatla!mclek If potatoes aren't computers, why are there potato chips and potato bugs?
doug@xdos.UUCP (Doug Merritt) (06/03/89)
In article <19518@dcatla.UUCP> mclek@sunb.UUCP (Larry E. Kollar) writes: > >AppleTalk is hard to beat for ease of installation, though. No screwdrivers Ok, that *is* nice. >Compare with Ethernet, especially on IBMs: set the DIP switches on the card, >open the computer, install the card, and put the lid back on the computer. OK, >now for the cable. Wait a minute! That's a straw man. Installing ***ANYTHING*** on an IBM PC is a real pain, and always involves all of the above steps, including *some* kind of cabling problem. >You have to tap in at a certain spot for each station for >the transceiver (or do you use an LNI instead?). Maybe a T-splice for thin >Ethernet; I haven't looked too close. Yeah, that certainly is a relative weak point of ethernet. With thin net you just tap into a T connector. There seems to be some debate around here as to whether cable length wavelength multiples (from one T-connector to the next) is important with thin net. >Now, you do something called "tuning" >the network. This isn't voodoo, it's just plain black magic! Hmmm...we never went through that step here, where we've got dozens of multi-vendor Unix boxes plus Eye Be Em's on our thin ethernet. What's that all about? >Now, how do you connect your PostScript printer to it? It has to be >attached to someone's computer, borrowing CPU cycles to serve everyone else Yeah; ours is hooked to my workstation. Print spooling barely blips my performance meter; it inconveniences me not at all. You're probably thinking about either the Postscript processing done inside the printer itself, or the document processor that produces the postscript job, which can (and does) run on any processor on the network, not on the spooler itself. > Finally, see how much it costs and >say to yourself, "do we really need 10 Mbps?" Not everyone does, and I like the fact that cheap nets exist, although I have never been able to use one yet for various reasons. At work we can't afford to use anything slower than ethernet, though. >the first place. I was happy to see the announcement for an Amiga AppleTalk >card; it'll get more Amigas into the art departments of the world (see? we Hmmm. I missed that. By who, how much, which Amiga models are supported? >we're just more interested in getting our work done than in having the "best" >or "most efficient" network. Probably true of everyone, although different folks have different standards (and budgets!) Doug -- Doug Merritt {pyramid,apple}!xdos!doug Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow Professional Wildeyed Visionary "Welcome to Mars; now go home!" (Seen on a bumper sticker off Phobos)
mclek@dcatla.UUCP (Larry E. Kollar) (06/06/89)
>> = myself In article <372@xdos.UUCP> doug@xdos.UUCP (Doug Merritt) writes: > >[...] Installing ***ANYTHING*** on an IBM PC >is a real pain, and always involves all of the above steps, including >*some* kind of cabling problem. OK, granted. I presume (no experience) that installing Amiga cards includes some, but not all, of those problems as well (does autoconfig eliminate jumper settings? asking out of ignorance). > >>Now, you do something called "tuning" >>the network. > >Hmmm...we never went through that step here, where we've got dozens >of multi-vendor Unix boxes plus Eye Be Em's on our thin ethernet. What's >that all about? All about me shooting off my mouth, is all. :-) Sorry about that. Tuning is something I've only *heard* about from our LAN experts here; it apparantly gets important when your Ethernet connections get into the hundreds. I believe it involves impedance matching. Of course, AppleTalk starts choking at 32 devices, unless you invoke a little black magic (Farallon StarControllers or equivalent) of your own to get around it. Helps a LOT on networks with >50 devices.... > >>Now, how do you connect your PostScript printer to it? It has to be >>attached to someone's computer, borrowing CPU cycles to serve everyone else > >Yeah; ours is hooked to my workstation. Print spooling barely blips my >performance meter; it inconveniences me not at all. On a Unix box (or an Amiga), I wouldn't expect much impact. Typing before thinking, I assumed a network of PC/Macs without "real" multitasking. It also depends on whether you have a bunch of writers trying to cram 30+ pages each through the printer all at once. :-) > >>[...] I was happy to see the announcement for an Amiga AppleTalk >>card; it'll get more Amigas into the art departments of the world (see? we > >Hmmm. I missed that. By who, how much, which Amiga models are supported? See article <1513@percival.UUCP>, by William Coldwell of CMI. You probably saw it just after you posted your response. (Murphy strikes again. :-) >At work we can't afford to use anything slower than ethernet, though. Think of AppleTalk as "LAN Lite." Hooks up great, less throughput. :-) -- Larry Kollar ...!gatech!dcatla!mclek If potatoes aren't computers, why are there potato chips and potato bugs?
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (06/06/89)
From article <372@xdos.UUCP>, by doug@xdos.UUCP (Doug Merritt):
::the first place. I was happy to see the announcement for an Amiga AppleTalk
::card; it'll get more Amigas into the art departments of the world (see? we
:
: Hmmm. I missed that. By who, how much, which Amiga models are supported?
It was CMI, with the CMInet card. We'll have versions for each
Amiga model, with the 2000 out first (should ship within three weeks,
we have the blank cards, just have to build them...) the 500 following
and finally the 1000. The card gives you an RS-422 Appletalk port, a
RS-232 serial port, a parallel printer port (not bi-directional...)
and optionally a SCSI port. For the 500 (And probably the 1000) there's
a memory port that's compatible with the Supra 2 meg board they did for
thier SCSI interface...
For Appletalk support, you need a seperate software package.
The first level of software support (comes with the card) gives you
multiport device drivers and such. The second level of software (~$80
extra) gives you Appletalk between Amigas, some networking utilities
and support of the Laserwriter. There will be more software later with
even more Appletalk support.
::we're just more interested in getting our work done than in having the "best"
::or "most efficient" network.
:
: Probably true of everyone, although different folks have different
: standards (and budgets!)
That's for sure! I'm just happy to see floppy disk type speeds from
NET:... Instead of 9600 buad.
: Doug
: --
: Doug Merritt {pyramid,apple}!xdos!doug
: Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow Professional Wildeyed Visionary
:
: "Welcome to Mars; now go home!" (Seen on a bumper sticker off Phobos)
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
...tektronix!sequent.UUCP!blowpig!billsey
Creative Microsystems Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 691-2552 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842