jcrowe@sugar.hackercorp.com (Joe Crowe) (06/13/89)
When, oh when, will CBM come out with an Amiga based on an 030 or
an 040 running at a clock rate of say 50MHz and with Unix and Amigados
running concurrently. It would be a chance to really kick some major
butt but the window of opportunity will be narrow because workstations
running at 20 VAX MIPs for under $9,000 are right around the corner (
no, I'm not referring to the wimpy DG Aviion (SP) which maybe runs five
VAX MIPs). I really like my A1000 but it has real limitations ( like
expensive hard disks and limited capacity ). So get with the program
lads. I need a real upgrade path here....
J. Crowe, device driving fool
Opinions...I spit upon opinions...I want the facts....cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (06/14/89)
In article <3920@sugar.hackercorp.com> (Joe Crowe) writes: > When, oh when, will CBM come out with an Amiga based on an 030 or >an 040 running at a clock rate of say 50MHz and with Unix and Amigados >running concurrently. You answer your own question ... > It would be a chance to really kick some major >butt but the window of opportunity will be narrow because workstations >running at 20 VAX MIPs for under $9,000 are right around the corner Your right, everyone from Sun to DEC to IBM have killer hardware coming down the pike, not only that but every third startup in this area seems bent on providing "that killer desktop UNIX box." Don't expect it from Commodore though. Commodore lives on the trailing edge of technology, that is their market, and it works well. Wait for everyone to move on to '486s and '040s and pick up some good deals on 030's or 386's. > (no, I'm not referring to the wimpy DG Aviion (SP) which maybe runs > five VAX MIPs). I really like my A1000 but it has real limitations > (like expensive hard disks and limited capacity). So get with the > program lads. I need a real upgrade path here.... Those limitations are called "cost tradeoffs" in the design. Ever seen the price of a workstation addon hard disk? Can you say $3000? Sure you can get a cheap 20Meg disk for an IBM PC, but have you ever seen the bus architecture up close and personal ? We're talking butt ugly when it comes to performance, especially in a multitasking environment. Ever wonder what would happen if you tried to use those cheap PC peripherals on a decent multitasking system? Go buy a Hpollo DN3000. Watch it zip, hit the bus, and then craaaaaawwwwwwwlll along. IBM made the right choice when they dumped the AT bus in favor of the MCA. Ever price a MCA Hard disk? Don't hold your breath laddy, the workstation you are looking for won't come from the likes of Commodore or Atari, they are set up for it. Heck with a moniterm and a 2500 they have almost invented a Sun 3/50 with slots. But if you check carefully you will see the 3/50 costs less when comparably equipped and it runs faster. Maybe you should see if you can get Carl to port Exec to the Sun machines? --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "A most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!"
daves@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Dave Scroggins) (06/14/89)
> When, oh when, will CBM come out with an Amiga based on an 030 or >an 040 running at a clock rate of say 50MHz and with Unix and Amigados Oh probably when they get ice cubes in a very warm place of extreme low altitude. ;-) ;-) Seriously - First CBM would no longer be a PC company. Second folks like me couldn't even THINK of affording one. THIRD (big third) They would have some VERY heavy competition. (ie: DEC, HP, SUN ...) What they do now they do very well - why knock a good thing for a gamble? Dave (I don't build the workstations -- I just use 'em) S.
protcoop@bnr-public.uucp (Joel Avery) (06/15/89)
I agree that Commodore should not be too willing to jump into head on competition with some of the big boys like Sun and Apollo. But they sure as h*ll had better have an ace up their sleeve in a few years time when the price margin between PCs and WorkStations becomes so minimal that people would soon spend $2500 on a mind- blowin' workstation then spend $1000 on a mind-blowin Amiga 4000. Think about it C= ... the price IS coming down, so you guys better be ready for it, whether you care to admit it or not you are either going to have to jump in or go under. Ne ce pas ? --------------------- Alan W. McKay | My opinions are mine, yours are yours. | Eat Food | NEPEAN, Ont. | I in no way pretend to represent the | and | 613-763-8980 | the options of my employer. So there. | LIVE !! |
denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) (06/16/89)
In article <596@bnr-fos.UUCP>, protcoop@bnr-public.uucp (Joel Avery) writes: > > I agree that Commodore should not be too willing to jump into head > on competition with some of the big boys like Sun and Apollo. But > they sure as h*ll had better have an ace up their sleeve in a few > years time when the price margin between PCs and WorkStations > becomes so minimal that people would soon spend $2500 on a mind- > blowin' workstation then spend $1000 on a mind-blowin Amiga > 4000. Think about it C= ... the price IS coming down, so you > guys better be ready for it, whether you care to admit it or not > you are either going to have to jump in or go under. Ne ce pas ? > --------------------- > Alan W. McKay | My opinions are mine, yours are yours. | Eat Food | > NEPEAN, Ont. | I in no way pretend to represent the | and | > 613-763-8980 | the options of my employer. So there. | LIVE !! | Actually, the price ISN'T going to come down very much more. Instead, they'll provide more feature and more product for the same price. The reason is that there is a floor price below which they can't profitably DISTRIBUTE the product, no matter WHAT it is, because of overhead costs. Think about it: The only reason that Commodore can sell the C128 for what they do is that they're selling it through Toys R Us. Sun has an in-house sales force nationwide which they have to pay, and they can't do it selling $1000 workstations. Sun recently announce the 3/80. The price is about the same as the 3/60, but it has more processor power. That's the model for what you'll see in the future. As long as Commodore can profitably distribute something for about $2000, they won't be competing with Sun. Sun's threshold appears to be about $10,000. Steven C. Den Beste, BBN Communications Corp., Cambridge MA denbeste@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (06/17/89)
Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone has one. Luckily, C=A has a
forum for suggestions like yours. If you really have a vested
interest in the future of the Amiga, you could pay $300-$400 and go to
DevCon and partake in the "Beyond 1.4" discussion. If you can't
afford that, do what most people that are qualified do: become a
registered developer and join the private BIX conference for
developers only. The signal/noise ratio is quite good there.
You should consult the monthly "Intro to comp.sys.amiga" posting for
more information (esp.read about the fact that CATS are on Usenet by their
own will, so gripes at them is discouraged. On the other hand, they
are paid to be on BIX so you can bitch at them all you want)
-Tom
--
Tom Limoncelli -- tlimonce@drunivac.Bitnet -- limonce@pilot.njin.net
Drew University -- Box 1060, Madison, NJ -- 201-408-5389
Standard Disclaimer: I am not the mouth-piece of Drew Universitydaveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (06/19/89)
in article <596@bnr-fos.UUCP>, protcoop@bnr-public.uucp (Joel Avery) says: > But they sure as h*ll had better have an ace up their sleeve in a few > years time when the price margin between PCs and WorkStations > becomes so minimal that people would soon spend $2500 on a mind- > blowin' workstation then spend $1000 on a mind-blowin Amiga > 4000. Some folks today might rather spend $15,000 on a mind blowing WorkStation than $5,000 on an amazing Amiga. Then again, not everyone would be confortable administering their own UNIX, not everyone thinks vi + nroff/troff constitutes wordprocessing, not everyone thinks $3000 is a good price for a new hard drive or $1500 is a good price for a desktop publishing program. There are more differences between PCs and WorkStations than you see from any single aspect you choose to look at, such as MIPs or pixels on screen. We know it, Sun sure seems to know it, and anyone who buys the wrong one will most definitely know it. > --------------------- > Alan W. McKay | My opinions are mine, yours are yours. | Eat Food | > NEPEAN, Ont. | I in no way pretend to represent the | and | > 613-763-8980 | the options of my employer. So there. | LIVE !! | -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (06/20/89)
<596@bnr-fos.UUCP> <Jun.16.23.59.04.1989.29333@pilot.njin.net> Sender: Reply-To: sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Corpane Industries, Inc. Keywords: In article <Jun.16.23.59.04.1989.29333@pilot.njin.net> limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) writes: >Opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone has one. Luckily, C=A has a >forum for suggestions like yours. If you really have a vested >interest in the future of the Amiga, you could pay $300-$400 and go to >DevCon and partake in the "Beyond 1.4" discussion. If you can't >afford that, do what most people that are qualified do: become a >registered developer and join the private BIX conference for >developers only. The signal/noise ratio is quite good there. Ah, so you are saying that Commodore will only take you serious if you pay to be heard (BIX, DEVCON). I can't believe that. The 6 months I have been here I have noticed how responsive and helpful all the guys over at C-A have been. That they listen is obvious. And I believe that they have some influence over what happens at Commodore. I don't want to have to pay BIX money so I can talk to commodore. I know that the guys at C-A can't take every suggestion seriously but I am sure that they do read them all and consider them. Then they weed out the bad ones and the ones that are too costly to implement. That's all we can ask for: To be listened to and considered. And I think that usenet fills that just fine. > >You should consult the monthly "Intro to comp.sys.amiga" posting for >more information (esp.read about the fact that CATS are on Usenet by their >own will, so gripes at them is discouraged. On the other hand, they I am not a developer (I don't even play one on the net) but If I was, I would want to hear bug reports and complaints even if I wasn't being paid to be on usenet. How else do you find what needs fixing? Osmosis? Now, being rude with a complaint and calling names is discouraged ANYWHERE. People don't tend to listen to people who are rude, obnoxious, and uncivilized. If CATS is on the net, then I assume that they are here to help out. Otherwise why be on here as CATS? >are paid to be on BIX so you can bitch at them all you want) Like I said above: bitching gets you no where except ignored. > >-Tom -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps ||||||||||||||| sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 Help fight continental drift.
stephan@cup.portal.com (Stephen Derek Schaem) (06/25/89)
I just want to remind for the continuation of your discution that the A2500 UX exist and is not sold for $2000, and that Graphics Worstation are pasing under 10,000$ , near the 8,000$. You should also notice that ethernet board existe, frame buffer etc. I will let your own mind do some additions and check prices one more time. But small budget could cut down on the configuration and get something for less with a Amiga setup.