cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (06/22/89)
There is a "new" program out called "Board Master" from Black Belt Systems.
This is actually PCLOPlus rewhacked. The interesting thing is that while
PCLOPlus had a suggested list of $1095, Board Master comes in at $75.
Board Master is a printed circuit board layout tool. It lets you put
down traces and such and supports two layers easily, more layers with
a little trickery.
Usage is fairly straight forward, the system routes to .050" grid will
a .025" allowance for diagonal routing so that you can run parallel
lines without having to waste a space. There are three routing algorithims
built in and they can be tried in turn to see which ones generate the
best routes. You also can "partially" route to an intermediate point
to allow you to influence the route more directly, and of course you
can just put down traces where you feel like. It also lets you build
DIP, SIP, and PGA pads really easily. If you want to save resistor
pads, and transitor pads the way to do that is to lay it out and then
save it as a "block" for later inclusion into other PCBs.
In it's .050 mode it can run one trace between IC pads, it can also be
run in "2X" mode where the grids are .025 so that you can run 2 lines
between IC pads. For most stuff you don't really need two lines.
The workspace size is fixed at 256 X 256 gridpoints, which is 12.8" of
PC board space. This is reduced to 6.4" when you are in "two line" mode.
The "trick" you use to get multiple layers is that you layout the first
two layers, then rename the file containing layer 2 (the bottom) and
lay out layer 3 as a new bottom layer. You can of course repeat this
as many times as you would like. What you can't do are buried vias
but heck, for a personal board they are impossible to debug anyway so
thats not a real problem. The reason you have to keep layer 1 around
is that it maintains the holes/pads so you need that to sync up.
Another interesting aspect is that this program is fully REXX controlable
so you can automate things like layer fiddling or some routing jobs.
The output of this program is 4 plots, layer 1, layer 2, holes, and silk
screen. They will plot on a couple of plotters or to an HP laserjet.
They fully document the file format so one could theoretically write
a PostScript plot program for laserwriters. The graphics are "rendered"
at 160dpi so than an 80dpi printer such as an epson can be used to generate
2X checkplots.
Finally, it isn't copy protected which is essential for me. And the price
was right. I'm going to lay out my Z80 microcontroller on it to see how
well it works.
--Chuck
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
"A most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!"451061@UOTTAWA.BITNET (Valentin Pepelea) (06/22/89)
Chuck McManis <cmcmanis%pepper@sun.com> writes in <111571@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> > The workspace size is fixed at 256 X 256 gridpoints, which is 12.8" of > PC board space. This is reduced to 6.4" when you are in "two line" mode. Is that 12.8" squared, or 12.8" by 12.8"? > --Chuck McManis > uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com And congratulations for your article in Dr. Dobbs Journal. Makes me wonder wether I should re-start subscribing to that magazine again. Naahh... Valentin _________________________________________________________________________ The godess of democracy? "The Name: Valentin Pepelea tyrants may distroy a statue, Phonet: (613) 231-7476 but they cannot kill a god." Bitnet: 451061@Uottawa.bitnet Usenet: Use cunyvm.cuny.edu gate - Confucius Planet: 451061@acadvm1.UOttawa.CA
marco@hprnd.HP.COM (Marco Gonzalez) (06/23/89)
>There is a "new" program out called "Board Master" from Black Belt Systems. >This is actually PCLOPlus rewhacked. The interesting thing is that while >PCLOPlus had a suggested list of $1095, Board Master comes in at $75. Sounds GREAT!, Can you tell us where to order this program?? *** Thanks in Advance ***
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (06/23/89)
Re: Board Master and Chuck's review ... Yes, it definitely appears to be an offshoot of PCLO (and PCLO-Plus). With the same MAJOR problems. I "played" with it for awhile at the dealer's today (probably the same place where Chuck bought his :-) and, like the PCLO predecessor, there's NO WAY to lay down the footprint for real-world connectors such as DB-25, Molex, etc. I've discussed this with the author ever since early 1986, and just could NOT convince him of his folly: there ARE things that go on printed circuit boards which REQUIRE other than a multiple of .025"/.050" pin (or other) spacing. For example: the connector pin spacing of a DB-25 connector is .109" If you're doing "home" board layouts on which all parts are "digital" and/or have .025/.050-multiple spacing, you'd probably find the product usable. But don't expect to ever lay down .156" card edge fingers (or DB-xx or other "analog" parts). Sigh. :-( And, yes, that year WAS 1986; I was one of the earliest testers of PCLO, and have a $1,000 hole in my pocket to prove it. :-( :-( Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (06/29/89)
In article <19814@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Re: Board Master and Chuck's review ... >Yes, it definitely appears to be an offshoot of PCLO (and PCLO-Plus). With >the same MAJOR problems. Hmm, "MAJOR" as in MAJOR opinion ? Well, let me put it this way. If I had payed $1000 bucks for this program, I would be irritated that it could not put down parts with non .1" spacing on the board. For $75, I can find a DB-25 connector that brings it's pins out to .1" spacing. >I "played" with it for awhile at the dealer's today (probably the same place >where Chuck bought his :-) and, like the PCLO predecessor, there's NO WAY to >lay down the footprint for real-world connectors such as DB-25, Molex, etc. Well the manual states "Buy some 2X artwork for these parts and stick it to your photoplots." which is of course a cop out. >I've discussed this with the author ever since early 1986, and just could NOT >convince him of his folly: there ARE things that go on printed circuit boards >which REQUIRE other than a multiple of .025"/.050" pin (or other) spacing. However, if you look at how this package is obviously designed you will know why it is obvious that these parts cannot be accomodated. The grid is 256 X 256 square boxes set on .05" centers. (that is a board 12.8" by 12.8" on a side. The "symbols" that the program lays out are nothing more than a 10 X 10 pixel "characters" in a font that when layed down on the screen appear as traces and pads. So now that you know the "secret" of how this is built, you can see that it makes placing "odd sized" parts on the layout impossible. It might be possible to define a "connector" or "DB-25" graphic that can be laid out on this system, but connecting it wouldn't be possible unless it ran to .05" centers somewhere. >For example: the connector pin spacing of a DB-25 connector is .109" All of the PC mount DB-25s I've seen recently can be fairly easily plugged into .1" perfboard. I suppose they may be straining the pins a bit though. >If you're doing "home" board layouts on which all parts are "digital" and/or >have .025/.050-multiple spacing, you'd probably find the product usable. Absolutely correct, and that is what I can recommend it for. If you are like me and usually do you layouts with wirewrap on .1" perfboard then this tool is an excellent way of laying out PCBs for those projects. >But don't expect to ever lay down .156" card edge fingers (or DB-xx or other >"analog" parts). Sigh. :-( Well, I don't have any problem with resistors, caps, TO-220 cased parts (such as voltage regulators), LEDs, lamp holders, or 90% of the "analog" parts I use on my perfboards, so I don't think they will be a problem with this program. >And, yes, that year WAS 1986; I was one of the earliest testers of PCLO, and >have a $1,000 hole in my pocket to prove it. :-( :-( And you have every right to be pissed off that the $1000 layout product you bought couldn't compete with similarly priced systems on other platforms. However, for _$75_, it is an excellent tool for laying out just about anything I would want to build. Why not re-evaluate it on those conditions and tell me again that it has "MAJOR" problems. For those of you still trying to find it, either ask your dealer for it or contact : Black Belt Systems 398 Johnson Rd RR1 Box 4272 Glasgow, Montana 59230 (406) 367-5509 --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "A most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!"
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (07/05/89)
Re: Chuck's comments to my: | >I "played" with it for awhile at the dealer's today (probably the same place | >where Chuck bought his :-) and, like the PCLO predecessor, there's NO WAY to | >lay down the footprint for real-world connectors such as DB-25, Molex, etc. | Well the manual states "Buy some 2X artwork for these parts and stick it to | your photoplots." which is of course a cop out. Yes, a cop out (on the part of the author of PCLO and Board Master). Because I do a lot of PCB work and sell a lot of computers of my own design, I want to briefly detail what this "cop out" entails: - a lot of lines (aka traces) "going nowhere" on your artwork, until you manually use tape or a "good" felt-tip pen to connect the unterminated traces to the respective connector positions. Good luck if you need vias and have to manually work on both sides of two-layer artwork. - inability to do auto-routing to the connector(s), unless you lay down some artificial pads as "targets", then do your manual traces from those pads to the "real" connector pins' pads. [ Can you say "kludge"? :-) ] Chuck also says: " All of the PC mount DB-25s I've seen recently can be fairly easily plugged into .1" perfboard. I suppose they may be straining the pins a bit though. " ^^^^^^^^^ Wow! That's an understatement! :-) :-) I've never been able to "bend" DB-25 pins to fit any of Artec or Vector perf-board hole-spacing. Must be some "trick" to this, akin to how one had to sit on the covers of some early micros to align the screwholes while a buddy would insert and fasten the screws. :-) I'm not on a tirade here; the cost of PCLO has long since been written off as a loss (taxwise). I just want to caution people that there ARE some caveats concerning board layout, and that one will encounter real-world "problems" interfacing some components. If you can live with that, then fine, just as I originally stated: >If you're doing "home" board layouts on which all parts are "digital" and/or >have .025/.050-multiple spacing, you'd probably find the product usable. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]