jbwaters@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (J. Brian Waters) (07/11/89)
I have recently been asked to write some manuals for some internally used
software. They will run about 50-150 pages. I currenly have WordPerfect
and some programming editors. Ideally, I would be able to use a format that
could be sent to one of the printers that advertises 'telecommuncations' and
computer typesetting.
If you can not tell already, I know nothing about this area. I am looking for
suggestions for programs and methods to look into that would help produce a
'professional' looking document quickly. I would like a program that can help
produce index, and table of contents etc. As usual, it has to be done
yesterday with a negative budget :-).
--
Brian Waters <backbone>!{iuvax|pur-ee}!bsu-cs!jbwatersjohn@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) (07/11/89)
In article <8155@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> jbwaters@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (J. Brian Waters) writes: >I have recently been asked to write some manuals for some internally used >software. They will run about 50-150 pages. I currenly have WordPerfect >and some programming editors. Ideally, I would be able to use a format that >could be sent to one of the printers that advertises 'telecommuncations' and >computer typesetting. What kind of computer systems do you have access to? Do you have access to a laser printer? Or a very good quality Dot-Matrix printer? If so, you could do the printing in-house and save yourself time and trouble. >If you can not tell already, I know nothing about this area. I am looking for >suggestions for programs and methods to look into that would help produce a >'professional' looking document quickly. I would like a program that can help One very good program is TeX, Amiga port by thomas rockiki. TeX itself is an amazing program, and Tom Rockiki's port is said to be wonderful. TeX (and LaTeX) are document preparation systems designed to produce high quality typesetting, especially for mathematical text. I have blatantly copied this from the "LaTeX" introduction. >produce index, and table of contents etc. As usual, it has to be >done yesterday with a negative budget :-). Both TeX and LaTeX (not available for the amiga as far as I know) can do all that and more. The power of TeX is simply mind boggling. For a good example of a user's guide written using TeX (or LaTeX) take a look at vltstory.tex at swan.ulowell.edu (129.63.1.1) available via annonymous ftp. It is located in the /amiga directory. I know this doesn't help if you don't have TeX already, but it's the best I can do. Although I could mail you a copy of the document to you if you like. Warning: TeX is NOT a "what you see is what you get" word processor. In fact, it really isn't a word processor since you can use almost any editor you like with it. I use Emacs in text mode myself. But it DOES produce great output! I haven't seen anything else that compares. >Brian Waters <backbone>!{iuvax|pur-ee}!bsu-cs!jbwaters -- John Stoffel | john@wpi.bitnet | What can you expect of a day WPI, Box 2432 | john@wpi.wpi.edu | that begins with getting up Worcester, MA 01609 | husc6!m2c!wpi!john | in the morning? --Damm the Disclaimers! Full flame ahead!--
jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Jim Wright) (07/11/89)
In article <3161@wpi.wpi.edu> john@wpi.wpi.edu (John F Stoffel) mis-writes: | One very good program is TeX, Amiga port by thomas rockiki. TeX | itself is an amazing program, and Tom Rockiki's port is said to be | wonderful. Yes, Tomas Rokicki's AmigaTeX is truly wonderful. | Both TeX and LaTeX (not available for the amiga as far as I know) can | do all that and more. The power of TeX is simply mind boggling. TeX is the basic system. LaTeX is a macro package which is much easier and more intuitive to use (IMHO). Yes, AmigaTeX *does* include LaTeX. | Warning: TeX is NOT a "what you see is what you get" word processor. No, TeX is not "what you see is all you get". It is much more powerful than that. The previewer with AmigaTeX is the best I've ever seen, and I've heard it called the best previewer there is. Sun workstations are being replaced with Amigas because of AmigaTeX (so I've heard). A most important feature of TeX is that it has been implemented on *many* different systems. So it is quite likely that the document you produce at home on your Amiga can be sent to your office "big computer", or to a co-author working on a different machine, or even to a publisher. -- Jim Wright jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu
jvmiller@zeno1.rdrc.rpi.edu (Jim Miller) (07/11/89)
TeX for the Amiga comes with several sets of macros that enable it to perform various typsetting operations automatically. The macro packages include the plain TeX macros, LaTeX macros, BibTeX macros, and a couple of others I believe. TeX (using the vanilla macros) is pretty difficult to use. LaTeX, however, allows the user to easily create tables and mathmatical equations. It does however take away one the more useful tabbing environments from TeX in favor of two other tabbing environments. I have used TeX for 6 months now on the Amiga. It can get a little frustrating processing the TeX files due to the limited error messages, but it is well worth it. The way Tex works is that you type in commands along with your document (like the old word-processors that did not imbede the commands). Then you run your file through TeX, creating a dvi file (device independent). The file can then be printed on any printer with the suitable printing program. It can even be uploaded to a mainframe with TeX, and printed there. TeX costs about $300 (with the Laser Printer support) and is well worth the investment. It comes with thousands of fonts in different sizes that can be scaled to fit your needs. It is the first program I have seen that makes it easy to write mathematical equations that not only look good on paper but are also understandable in the TeX syntax (\alpha means place an alpha here, etc). If you want professional looking output, without having to specify where everything has to located (like in a word processor or a desk top publisher), then TeX is the answer. (I believe TeX was originally written to process books. It definately has the capability. My largest TeX document was 200 pages (senior project).) Jimmy Miller
farren@well.UUCP (Mike Farren) (07/11/89)
jbwaters@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (J. Brian Waters) writes: >Ideally, I would be able to use a format that >could be sent to one of the printers that advertises 'telecommuncations' and >computer typesetting. Most typesetting shops which accept machine-readable stuff, either on disk or by modem, can deal with the major MS-DOS word processors - Wordstar, Word, and WordPerfect. The Amiga WordPerfect files are completely compatible with MS-DOS WordPerfect 4.1 files, and should pose NO problem with anyone who can understand WordPerfect formats. Call the shop - they'll be glad to tell you what they can deal with, or if they can deal with WP files. -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.usa
giguere@aries5.uucp (Eric Giguere) (07/11/89)
Yes, a lot of people on the net use AmigaTeX and can attest to how wonderful
it is. The portability factor is an extremely big plus from my point of
view. If you want more information on AmigaTeX see my review in the
Transactor for the Amiga a few months back. The June issue of the TransAmi
also has an article showing off what you can do with LaTeX using AmigaTeX.
If you have access to neither copy I could mail the original text of my
review to anyone who wants it. Tom Rokicki, the author of AmigaTeX, reads
this group regularly and can answer any questions. He can also be reached
on BIX as radical.eye (Radical Eye Software is his company name.)
One point that should be mentioned, though, is that using LaTeX (or TeX)
may not suit your purposes for several reasons. One of them is that you'll
probably want your own documentation style created, which means hacking up
one of the standard LaTeX styles --- hard to do from scratch. Another big
reason is that currently --- Tom is working on this, though --- TeX really
has no support for more than simple graphics. If your documentation is
graphics-intensive then TeX may not be the way to go at the current time.
(Mind you, I'm not sure what is. Most DTP programs are only designed to
handle a few pages, really, and are unsuited for long documents. At least
this is what I've concluded.)
Eric Giguere 268 Phillip St #CL-46
For the curious: it's French ("jee-gair") Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6G9
Bitnet : GIGUERE at WATCSG (519) 746-6565
Internet: giguere@aries5.UWaterloo.ca "Nothing but urges from HELL!!"MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) (07/12/89)
Just a quick question about AmigaTex... does it use postscript laser printers?
rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) (07/12/89)
MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) writes: > does [AmigaTeX] use postscript laser printers? The laser driver package for AmigaTeX supports PostScript, DeskJet, DeskJet Plus, LaserJet Plus or II, and optionally (you have to request them specifically) the QMS Kiss, QMS SmartWriter, and CLTD PLP. For a free demo disk and further information, send a letter or postcard to Radical Eye Software, Box 2081, Stanford, CA 94309.
jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Jim Wright) (07/12/89)
In article <19497@louie.udel.EDU> MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) writes: | | Just a quick question about AmigaTex... does it use postscript laser | printers? Yes, AmigaTeX supports PostScript. The laser printer drivers package is $100, and includes PostScript, HP LaserJet, HP DeskJet, etc. Supports landscape option, inclusion of IFF graphics in PostScript (!), and plans for inclusion of IFF graphics in all drivers (!!). -- Jim Wright jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu
giguere@aries5.uucp (Eric Giguere) (07/12/89)
In article <19497@louie.udel.EDU> MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) writes: > >Just a quick question about AmigaTex... does it use postscript laser >printers? TeX/LaTeX generate what are called DVI (DeVice Independent) files. To print these files requires a separate printer driver to convert from DVI format to whatever your printer accepts. AmigaTeX has a full set of printer drivers available for most of the commonly-used 9- and 24-pin dot matrix printers, for HP LaserJets and DeskJets and for postcript printers. (The drivers are all purchased separately.) The nice thing about this is that you can print drafts on your el cheapo printer at home and take the DVI file to your local TeX shop and have them print it out on their 1200 dpi typesetter.... Eric Giguere 268 Phillip St #CL-46 For the curious: it's French ("jee-gair") Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6G9 Bitnet : GIGUERE at WATCSG (519) 746-6565 Internet: giguere@aries5.UWaterloo.ca "Nothing but urges from HELL!!"
higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom) (07/12/89)
In article <8155@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> jbwaters@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (J. Brian Waters) writes:
$I have recently been asked to write some manuals for some internally used
$software. They will run about 50-150 pages. I currenly have WordPerfect
$and some programming editors. Ideally, I would be able to use a format that
$could be sent to one of the printers that advertises 'telecommuncations' and
$computer typesetting.
$
$I am looking for suggestions for programs and methods to look into that would
$help produce a 'professional' looking document quickly.
$I would like a program that can help produce index, and table of contents etc.
$--
$Brian Waters <backbone>!{iuvax|pur-ee}!bsu-cs!jbwaters
I do a LOT of writing in my job here at Commodore (training manuals, reference
guides, etc.) and I use a lot of different Amiga tools. Desktop publishing
packages can do nice fancy layout work, but for relatively normal book style layout
it might be overkill, plus they can be a bit cumbersome for long documents (I consider
50-150 pages long). A wordprocessor is ok, and offers some nice features that
desktop publishing doesn't (simpler global changes, spell checking, etc.) but
again, for long documents they can get cumbersome. For example, if you wanted
to change the style of the book, you'd have to do so in each file since
wordprocessors don't usually allow nesting of files. [An aside -- it's funny,
that feature must not have been popular because it used to be common on word
processing packages for PETs.]
For manuals of that length, I definitely recommend AmigaTeX from Radical Eye Software.
There's a lot to learn, although there is a macro package (LaTeX) that allows you to
make really nice output without having to learn much. I'm using a macro package called
TeXSIS which seems just right for my needs.
I am not recommending TeX for everything, but for the work that you need to do,
it sounds ideal [yes, I do use it]. Since the input files you send AmigaTeX are
straight ASCII, you can use any editor or wordprocessor you like to prepare the files.
Regarding typeset quality output - AmigaTeX IS a typesetting system, so you would be
saving the money and time required to get the manual typeset by just using the package.
If you really need to you could send the PostScript output from TeX to a Linotronic
typesetting machine, but I think you'll be impressed with regular laser printer output,
especially if the manuals are only for internal use.
I might take some flames over this... but I've used practically every system
there is so I'm armed for replies :-)
Paul.higgin@cbmvax.UUCP (Paul Higginbottom) (07/12/89)
In article <19497@louie.udel.EDU> MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) writes:
$Just a quick question about AmigaTex... does it use postscript laser
$printers?
It can output to PostScript yes, and the latest version supports Adobe
fonts too. I have never seen ANY package that can output pages to a
PostScript printer as fast as the AmigaTeX driver (dvips) can.
It can also output to non-PostScript, such as Epson compatible 9
and 24 pin models, HP LaserJet, DeskJet, and a few other printers.
I have a 24 pin printer at home and the output is GOOD.
Paul.jvmiller@zeno1.rdrc.rpi.edu (Jim Miller) (07/12/89)
In article <19497@louie.udel.EDU>, MFM1%LEHIGH.BITNET@ibm1.cc.lehigh.edu (mark masters) writes: > > Just a quick question about AmigaTex... does it use postscript laser > printers? The package of AmigaTeX I bought came with the drivers for three laser printers: the HP LaserJet, LaserWriter, and a third of which I do not recall the manufacturer. I assume that they use the postscript capabilities of the LaserWriter. The way the printer drivers (and print programs) operate is that they download to your printer any fonts that are required. This operation takes much less time then performing a bitmap dump to your laser printer. I believe postscript printers allow you to download fonts. For me, this was a cheap ($300) to get many, many, many fonts. As a comparison, the font cartridges for the LaserJet run about $300 apiece for the nice fonts (And you can't scale them). I would had to purchase as least two cartridges to get the fonts I now have. Jimmy Miller
tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) (07/13/89)
>>I have recently been asked to write some manuals for some internally used >>software. They will run about 50-150 pages. I currenly have WordPerfect >>and some programming editors. Ideally, I would be able to use a format that >>could be sent to one of the printers that advertises 'telecommuncations' and >>computer typesetting. Use Woredperfect. It is not the ABSOLUTE best editor (but close) and most of those typsetting places (I do the telecommunications stuff for some) are set up to handle it. ... **************************************************************************** Something is basically wrong with anyone who uses a disclaimer when they talk "My thoughts claim no responsibility for my body" tron1@tronsbox.UUCP Sysop, the Penthouse ]I[ BBS (201)759-8450 (201)759-8568
bri@io.UUCP (Brian Shanblatt x3385) (07/15/89)
Probably not good for writing manuals for publication, but Excellence! seems like a nice Word processing package. Anyone have experience with it? -- mit-eddie!ileaf!io!cube!bri or bri@ileaf.com (617)577-9813 x3385>>> "How to Learn How to Sing" rule #1: There is always tomorrow... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Interleaf, Inc. 10 Canal Park Cambridge, MA 02141>>
deh@ndmath.UUCP (David Hurtubise) (07/18/89)
From article <1182@io.UUCP>, by bri@io.UUCP (Brian Shanblatt x3385): > Probably not good for writing manuals for publication, but I have to disagree. I think it would do the job quite nicely. And you don't have to learn something as complicated as TeX. > Excellence! seems like a nice Word processing package. > > Anyone have experience with it? I've been using Excellence! ever since it came out, and it's hard to think of anything bad to say about the package. It handels fonts, IFF pictures, it can do simple page layouts, it has a dictionary, a thesauras, and a grammer checker. It can generate an index, and a table of contents. It can run in high res (interlaced) or low res mode. And I have yet to find a bug in the program. However, Excellence! is incredibly slow. If you've ever used Micro- soft Word, Excellence! could really test your patience. Since it's a what you see is what you get type of word processor, you can't expect it to be as fast as say, Scribble!, but I can't help but think that there must be some way to speed it up a bit. Also, it does not have a math mode which is a real bummer. The only way I can think to do symbols like integral signs or such would be to design a special font set of math symbols or to draw them with a paint progams and then load them in as graphics. Now that I think of it, is there a font set of math symbols in the public domain - say on a fish disk or such? Even though having a math font set is not nearly as good as having a math mode (like on Microsoft Word), it would help. ------------------------ David Hurtubise Math Department University of Notre Dame deh@ndmath.math.nd.edu
jmoore@dtix.ARPA (Jim Moore) (07/18/89)
In article <1182@io.UUCP> bri@io.UUCP (Brian Shanblatt x3385) writes: >Probably not good for writing manuals for publication, but >Excellence! seems like a nice Word processing package. > >Anyone have experience with it? > >-- >mit-eddie!ileaf!io!cube!bri or bri@ileaf.com (617)577-9813 x3385>>> >"How to Learn How to Sing" rule #1: There is always tomorrow... ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Interleaf, Inc. 10 Canal Park Cambridge, MA 02141>> Yes. I have had excellence! almost a year now...and use it very infrequently. It is a nice package doomed by a VERY slow screen update algorithm. Pen Pal (new) loks like a good low-end package...but does not have index & table of contents generation, etc that would be useful for manuals. Jim jmoore@dtrc.arpa
bmacintyre@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Blair MacIntyre) (07/18/89)
In article <1485@ndmath.UUCP> deh@ndmath.UUCP (David Hurtubise) writes: >From article <1182@io.UUCP>, by bri@io.UUCP (Brian Shanblatt x3385): >> [excellence! is] >> ... Probably not good for writing manuals for publication, but >I have to disagree. I think it would do the job quite nicely. >And you don't have to learn something as complicated as TeX. So use LateX. Why waste your time learning a variety of different tools when learning something like LateX ( until you need the more-powerful base tool, TeX ) will allow you to do all your text processing jobs? It's not _that_ hard. And I completely dissagree with you about Excellence! ( or any other wysiwyg text processor on a micro ) - it is not appropriate for large documents. Too slow. In addition, a key thing to remember is that when using something like TeX you get to use your favourite editor, a big plus in my book. -- = Blair MacIntyre, bmacintyre@watcgl.{waterloo.edu, UWaterloo.ca} // = = now appearing at the Computer Graphics Lab, U of Waterloo! \X/ = = "There's nothing the matter with BR that a shot gun blast wouldn't fix" cge = = "It's not my fault, fatboy!" - Felder, pilot of TL Student Driver On Board =
trantow@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Jerry J Trantow) (07/20/89)
In article <1182@io.UUCP> mit-eddie!ileaf!io!cube!bri writes: >Probably not good for writing manuals for publication, but >Excellence! seems like a nice Word processing package. > >Anyone have experience with it? > I am sad to say that I bought Excellence~ ( The change from ! to ~ is intentional!) On the surface it looks ok, but the damn thing is lethargic. With an 18Mhz Lucas board it is acceptable for doing 2 or 3 page letters, if you do not have an accelerator I would not recommend going over 2 pages because scrolling and inserting text is so slow. My main complaint is speed (or lack of) They actually advertize it as the fastest Amiga WP which is sickening. There are a number of other problems involving the WorkBench interface. They do support Post Script, but I am disappointed with the printing support. MSS also doesn't bother to notify users of upgrades. I would steer clear of this program. (Unless of course you want to buy my copy for $50, in which case it is the finest program money can buy and I need the money to pay for a cancer operation for starving orphans....) >-- >mit-eddie!ileaf!io!cube!bri or bri@ileaf.com (617)577-9813 x3385>>> >"How to Learn How to Sing" rule #1: There is always tomorrow... ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Interleaf, Inc. 10 Canal Park Cambridge, MA 02141>> _____________________________________________________________________________ Jerry J. Trantow | A man should be ashamed to die unless he has won 1560 A. East Irving Place | at least on battle for humanity. Horace Mann Milwaukee, Wi 53202-1460 | Ethics may not bring material gain, (414) 289-0503 | but self respect is priceless. _____________________________________________________________________________