markv@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mark VanMeeter) (07/27/89)
I'm interested in getting a SCSI interface for my A1000, but don't have
enough information to choose from the ones available (e.g., Supra, MAST,
Microbotics, C-Ltd, and Comspec). The features most important to me are:
- performance (hard drive)
- does the provided software driver support a streaming tape drive
- reliability
- price
Also, is the possibility of adding an expansion chassis (Pheonix) so that
A2000 cards can be used worth pursuing? From what I've been able to gather,
using SCSI cards with this setup is flaky at best.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Mark VanMeeter
markv%hpmwtd@hplabs.hp.comjohnl@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM (John Lindwall) (07/31/89)
In article <730001@hpmwmdv.HP.COM>,markv@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mark VanMeeter) writes: > I'm interested in getting a SCSI interface for my A1000, but don't have > enough information to choose from the ones available (e.g., Supra, MAST, > Microbotics, C-Ltd, and Comspec). The features most important to me are: > I have been shopping for a hard drive system for my A1000 for the past few months. I chose the Supra interface, though if did it all over again I'd take a close look at the Comspec. > - performance (hard drive) > - does the provided software driver support a streaming tape drive > - reliability > - price > My priorities were: 1> performance. 2> degree of technical support. 3> quality of software. 4> price. Performance I just got my drive running 2 days ago. Performance seems "blah". I ran DiskPerf3 to check read/write speed. I get 95K/sec read and 41K/sec write with 1K buffer. Performance increases with the 8K and 32K buffers but read never exceeds 200K and write never exceeds 90K. This is on a Quantum 80S, 19 ms ave access time. Does anyone have any advice on getting more speed out of this? I used the SupraMount command - I never got to specify interleave :(. I need to examine the problem more closely. Tech Support. Excellent. It's not too hard to get through and they seem knowledgeable and reliable. I'll try calling them about my low performance. Software Super! It was simple to format and partition the drive. Many utilities are supplied. I was very impressed. (The manual is excellent also). Price I got the Supra from Lightspeed for $200. Lightspeed has always done well by me. (I originally ordered from MCS but cancelled the order because they took too long). I dont know if their software supports streaming tape. You could call their tech support to find out: (503) 967-9081. Info I gathered from people indicated the Microbotics controller was slow and the software was poor (as well as poorly supported). As I said before, if I had it all to do over I'd look at the Comspec. Apparently it allows auto-booting (!) which non of the other drives do. Good Luck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Above opinions are my own, not my employer's" John Lindwall johnl@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM
stevem@sauron.Columbia.NCR.COM (Steve McClure) (08/01/89)
In article <458@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM> johnl@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM (John Lindwall) writes: >In article <730001@hpmwmdv.HP.COM>,markv@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mark VanMeeter) writes: > [ has SCSI interface ] > > >> [ wants SCSI interface ] > > Performance > > I just got my drive running 2 days ago. Performance seems "blah". > I ran DiskPerf3 to check read/write speed. I get 95K/sec read > and 41K/sec write with 1K buffer. Performance increases with the 8K > and 32K buffers but read never exceeds 200K and write never exceeds > 90K. This is on a Quantum 80S, 19 ms ave access time. Does anyone This is great compared to my performance. My A500 w/Supra and Adaptec 4000A with a 28ms ST506 HD gives ~40K reads. > Tech Support. > > Excellent. It's not too hard to get through and they > seem knowledgeable and reliable. I'll try calling them about my > low performance. They are easily reached. However, I didn't get satifactory answers about my performance problems. I deal with SCSI devices at work frequently and therefore know just enough to be dangerous. The tech's explaination of my performance problems was that the ACB4000 doesn't support "blind SCSI reads." Well, "blind SCSI reads" is not in any SCSI spec and his discription was that the Adaptec verifies every block read/written. I have yet to try an embedded SCSI disk. > > Software > > Super! It was simple to format and partition the drive. Many utilities ^^^^^^ > are supplied. I was very impressed. (The manual is excellent also). Supraformat is where you specify interleave. It didn't make any difference in my case. > > Price > > I dont know if their software supports streaming tape. You could > call their tech support to find out: (503) 967-9081. No, I already called. You have to write your own device driver. They did volunteer source code if I send them a floppy. I think that is a generous offer and will take them up on it. I also had problems trying to backup my 10M partition with the new 1.07 software. It read all the files on the disk, prompted me for a floppy and then guru'ed. I didn't have this problem with version 1.05, but it still could be me or my filesystem. Overall, I could be more satisfied, but I only spent $300 for my entire setup. I haven't spent enough time on it to say who is at fault or even if there is a fault. According to the referenced postings, performance is totally acceptable with SCSI disks. Steve
fnf@estinc.UUCP (Fred Fish) (08/02/89)
In article <458@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM> johnl@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM (John Lindwall) writes: > Info I gathered from people indicated the Microbotics controller > was slow and the software was poor (as well as poorly supported). I also have a Quantum 80S, with the Microbotics HardFrame controller, and the performance is excellent. It was easy to set up and the combo has never given me a bit of trouble. -Fred -- # Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA # 1-602-491-0048 asuvax!{nud,mcdphx}!estinc!fnf
rademach@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Simon Rademacher) (08/04/89)
Has anybody heard anything about the Xetec controller (esp. for the 500)? Would it be worth the $239 the local store wants? I would suspect its DMA and hence a little better than the Supra. Thanks ======================================= = Simon Rademacher = = rademach%tramp@boulder.colorado.edu =
rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) (08/04/89)
rademach@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Simon Rademacher) writes: > Xetec controller . . . I would suspect its DMA . . . I would suspect its DMA too, especially with reports I've heard about `being careful not to multitask when downloading to the hard disk' when using this controller. (I'm sure Simon meant to say ``I would suspect it's DMA'' . . .) There are a lot of good controllers out there, but I'm not positive the Xetec is one of them at this point in the game. -tom
JOSEPH@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (08/04/89)
In article <11090@polya.Stanford.EDU>, rokicki@polya.Stanford.EDU (Tomas G. Rokicki) writes: > rademach@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Simon Rademacher) writes: >> Xetec controller . . . I would suspect its DMA . . . > I would suspect its DMA too, especially with reports I've heard about > -tom No its not. The brochure I got from Xetec says its DMAx, which is different from DMA. Their claim is that this method is better than the standard DMA in many respects. Tomi
wendell@medsys.UUCP (bbs amiga user) (08/05/89)
rademach@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Simon Rademacher) writes: >Has anybody heard anything about the Xetec controller (esp. for the 500)? >Would it be worth the $239 the local store wants? I would suspect its DMA >and hence a little better than the Supra. >Thanks >======================================= >= Simon Rademacher = >= rademach%tramp@boulder.colorado.edu = Simon, I also asked this question a while back, and in no uncertain terms was recommended away from the Xetec controller. Seems it dies on very large program loads. The fix is to make the Max Transfer value something like 128K, so the drive has to load larger files in 2 or more requests. From what I've gathered, this fix would have to be run every time you boot up and is not a good fix at that. The controller uses what the company terms DMAx which is just a very efficient processor-intensive approach. A salesman at Lightspeed Distribution told me that the rating Amiga World gave the Xetec controller was downright lies! He also said that same about their review of the Supra, (AmigaWorld said it only got 50K/sec reads or some such nonsense). If you find out any other pertinent info concerning this or any other 500 controllers, I'd appreciate hearing about them. -- Wendell Dingus UUCP: uunet!medsys!wendell
Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG (Fred Fish) (08/06/89)
-- Fidonet: Fred Fish via 1:363/9 Internet: Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG Usenet: ...!peora!rtmvax!libcmp!mamab!Fred.Fish
staatsvr@asdcds.cds.wpafb.af.mil (Vern Staats; ASD/SCED;) (08/06/89)
In article <795@medsys.UUCP> wendell@medsys.UUCP (bbs amiga user) writes: > >Simon, I also asked this question a while back, and in no uncertain terms >was recommended away from the Xetec controller. Seems it dies on very large >program loads. The fix is to make the Max Transfer value something like >128K, so the drive has to load larger files in 2 or more requests. From >what I've gathered, this fix would have to be run every time you boot up >and is not a good fix at that. >-- >Wendell Dingus >UUCP: uunet!medsys!wendell MaxTransfer is normally set in the MountList. Controllers using Rigid Disk Blocks (RDB) (like Xetec and HardFrame) save mountlist type info on special blocks on the harddrive and ignore the mountlist. On these controllers, you specify MaxTransfer once, when editing partitions and then forget about it. You do not need to run a fix every time you boot. I have heard of a problem with multitasking while downloading files but have not been able to duplicate it yet. The controller's speed is mediocre -- just over 300K/s reads, using a fast harddrive. Boolean orthogonal(char *my_opinions, char *employer_opinions) {return(TRUE);} INET: staatsvr@asd.wpafb.af.mil /// Honey, I UUCP: nap1!asd!staatsvr \\\/// dereferenced Vern Staats, ASD/SCED, WPAFB OH 45433, 513-255-2714 \XX/ the kids
dwl10@uts.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) (08/07/89)
In article <795@medsys.UUCP> wendell@medsys.UUCP (bbs amiga user) writes: >rademach@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Simon Rademacher) writes: > > >>Has anybody heard anything about the Xetec controller (esp. for the 500)? >>Would it be worth the $239 the local store wants? I would suspect its DMA >>and hence a little better than the Supra. > >>Thanks > >>======================================= >>= Simon Rademacher = >>= rademach%tramp@boulder.colorado.edu = > >Simon, I also asked this question a while back, and in no uncertain terms >was recommended away from the Xetec controller. Seems it dies on very large >program loads. The fix is to make the Max Transfer value something like >128K, so the drive has to load larger files in 2 or more requests. From >what I've gathered, this fix would have to be run every time you boot up >and is not a good fix at that. The controller uses what the company terms >DMAx which is just a very efficient processor-intensive approach. A salesman >at Lightspeed Distribution told me that the rating Amiga World gave the >Xetec controller was downright lies! He also said that same about their review >of the Supra, (AmigaWorld said it only got 50K/sec reads or some such >nonsense). If you find out any other pertinent info concerning this >or any other 500 controllers, I'd appreciate hearing about them. > The September Amiga World has a 2/3 page "update" on the Xetec controller. The author claims that Xetec didn't tell him about the MaxTransfer problem until after publication! His NEW Dperf 2.0 results are as follows: Read/Write 510K/310K Bytes per secons (overscan Read/Write 198K/124K) He claims that the Xetec Fasttrak (for the A500) is still the fastest of the group he tested. But the Xetec FastCard (for the A2000) dropped to third in the "speed race". He goes on to say that for the A2000 "The CBM A2090A and the MicroBotics HardFrame are faster. The HardFrame remains the controller of choice.". For what it's worth! For details on how to re-format the drive to runn correctly, see the article. -- "What is another word | Dave Lowrey | [The opinions expressed MAY be for 'Thesaurus'?" | Amdahl Corp. | those of the author and are not | Houston, Texas | necessarily those of his Steven Wright | amdahl!dwl10 | employer] (`nuff said!)
ruslan@ecsvax.UUCP (Robin C. LaPasha) (08/08/89)
In article <151.24DDB51D@mamab.FIDONET.ORG>, Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG (Fred Fish) writes: > -- > Fidonet: Fred Fish via 1:363/9 > Internet: Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG > Usenet: ...!peora!rtmvax!libcmp!mamab!Fred.Fish Uh, folks, I know Fred gets around, but somehow I wonder if he's moved from estinc so suddenly. Fred, care to comment? Ok, so maybe I don't have a sense of humor. But I didn't see any smileys either. Or is this a site for mail availability of the disks? (In that case, the presentation is a bit obscure.) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robin LaPasha |Deep-Six your ruslan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu |files with VI! ;^) ;^) ;^)
shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) (08/08/89)
On 6 Aug 89 07:00:06 GMT, Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG (Fred Fish) said: "Fred.Fish"> -- "Fred.Fish"> Fidonet: Fred Fish via 1:363/9 "Fred.Fish"> Internet: Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG "Fred.Fish"> Usenet: ...!peora!rtmvax!libcmp!mamab!Fred.Fish Some jerks just never give up. Deven -- Deven T. Corzine Internet: deven@rpi.edu, shadow@pawl.rpi.edu Snail: 2214 12th Street, Troy, NY 12180 Phone: (518) 271-0750 Bitnet: deven@rpitsmts, userfxb6@rpitsmts UUCP: uunet!rpi!deven Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible.
shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) (08/09/89)
On 8 Aug 89 13:32:30 GMT,
ruslan@ecsvax.UUCP (Robin C. LaPasha) said:
Robin> Summary: Whoa, is this a joke?
Robin> In article <151.24DDB51D@mamab.FIDONET.ORG>,
Robin> Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG (Fred Fish) writes:
"Fred.Fish"> --
"Fred.Fish"> Fidonet: Fred Fish via 1:363/9
"Fred.Fish"> Internet: Fred.Fish@mamab.FIDONET.ORG
"Fred.Fish"> Usenet: ...!peora!rtmvax!libcmp!mamab!Fred.Fish
Robin> Uh, folks, I know Fred gets around, but somehow I wonder if
Robin> he's moved from estinc so suddenly.
Not a chance.
Robin> Fred, care to comment?
Quite possibly.
Robin> Ok, so maybe I don't have a sense of humor. But I didn't see
Robin> any smileys either.
If it was intended as a joke, it was one in *extremely* poor taste.
Robin> Or is this a site for mail availability of the disks?
Hardly. This is one of half a dozen blatently poor forgeries in
comp.sys.amiga and comp.sys.amiga.tech. [The same jerk tried one
supposedly from me, also.]
Robin> (In that case, the presentation is a bit obscure.)
Obscure? Just poor. These are probably the absolute WORST forgeries
I've *ever* seen on the net. [most manage to at least get the "From:"
line correct.]
Deven
--
Deven T. Corzine Internet: deven@rpi.edu, shadow@pawl.rpi.edu
Snail: 2214 12th Street, Troy, NY 12180 Phone: (518) 271-0750
Bitnet: deven@rpitsmts, userfxb6@rpitsmts UUCP: uunet!rpi!deven
Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible.andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (08/09/89)
In article <SHADOW.89Aug8131728@pawl.rpi.edu> shadow@pawl.rpi.edu (Deven T. Corzine) writes: >Robin> Or is this a site for mail availability of the disks? > >Hardly. This is one of half a dozen blatently poor forgeries in >comp.sys.amiga and comp.sys.amiga.tech. [The same jerk tried one >supposedly from me, also.] > >Robin> (In that case, the presentation is a bit obscure.) > >Obscure? Just poor. These are probably the absolute WORST forgeries >I've *ever* seen on the net. [most manage to at least get the "From:" >line correct.] > ENOUGH! Sorry for shouting, but its getting real silly. >Deven >-- >Deven T. Corzine Internet: deven@rpi.edu, shadow@pawl.rpi.edu >Snail: 2214 12th Street, Troy, NY 12180 Phone: (518) 271-0750 >Bitnet: deven@rpitsmts, userfxb6@rpitsmts UUCP: uunet!rpi!deven >Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible. What the problem looks like is a lot like a malfunctioning Usenet->Fidonet gateway which is busy munging headers incorrectly. I've sent email to the systems at what should be the gateway, and to the site next to it telling them about the problem. There's no need to flame about it here...flame them in email, if you must. andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. The Law of Software Envelopment Every program at MIT attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot expand are replaced by ones which can. Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
11tstark@gallux.gallaudet.edu (Timothy Stark) (08/11/89)
Hey Fidonet people,
Where are your body mails??? I get some mails which contains
nulls. I hope this server should be fixed.
Thanks.
-- Tim Stark
Timothy Stark Bitnet: 11tstark@gallua.bitnet People/Link: OCS130
Gallaudet University Internet: 11tstark@gallux.gallaudet.edu GEnie: T.STARK1
P.O. Box 1453, 800 Florida Ave., N.E., Washington, DC 20002
"Gallaudet University is the only university for the deaf in the world."