johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch) (08/29/89)
I find it hard to believe but in over a year of reading this group I have never seen anybody complain about the position that the caps lock occupies. Am I the only one who tries to hit control characters only to get C or E in my text (or whatever)? When I saw the keymap editor my heart leaped for joy because I thought I could make the caps lock into another control key and move the caps lock to an unused position. Unfortunately the keymap editor can't do that :-( Does anybody have a program which would allow me to fix this "problem"? John Munsch
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/29/89)
In <3101@spudge.UUCP>, johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch) writes: >I find it hard to believe but in over a year of reading this group I have never >seen anybody complain about the position that the caps lock occupies. I never bothered complaining, because the caps lock key is in the wrong place on every single keyboard I know of. To me, the only place for a caps lock key is 50 ft. or more away from my fingers. :-) >Am I the only one who tries to hit control characters only to get C or E in my >text (or whatever)? When I saw the keymap editor my heart leaped for joy >because I thought I could make the caps lock into another control key and move >the caps lock to an unused position. Unfortunately the keymap editor can't do >that :-( >Does anybody have a program which would allow me to fix this "problem"? I don't think you'll have much luck. The caps lock is a special one, requiring a press and release for 'key down', and a press and release for 'key up'. I could be wrong though. -larry -- The Mac? Oh, that's just like a computer, only slower. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
charles@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (08/31/89)
> I find it hard to believe but in over a year of reading this group I > have never seen anybody complain about the position that the caps lock > occupies. Am I the only one who tries to hit control characters only > to get C or E in my text (or whatever)? When I saw the keymap editor > my heart leaped for joy because I thought I could make the caps lock > into another control key and move the caps lock to an unused position. > Unfortunately the keymap editor can't do that :-( > John Munsch You are not the only one. I complained about this years ago when I had an Amiga 1000. Eventually, I opened the case and switched the keys with a knife and a soldering iron. When I sold it, the buyer was glad I had switched them. So there are at least three of us. Since then I have bought an Amiga 2000. I have not yet performed this surgery on its keyboard, but I plan to. -- Charles Brown charles@cv.hp.com or charles%hpcvca@hplabs.hp.com or hplabs!hpcvca!charles or "Hey you!" Not representing my employer. "Don't try this at home, kids. These stunts are very dangerous."
fnf@estinc.UUCP (Fred Fish) (08/31/89)
In article <5660056@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM> charles@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM (Charles Brown) writes: >Eventually, I opened the case and switched the keys with a knife and a >soldering iron. When I sold it, the buyer was glad I had switched >them. So there are at least three of us. I agree that the positions of the caps-lock and control keys on most "modern" keyboards are highly unsatisfactory (or less politely, they suck!). The control key belongs immediately to the left of the 'A' key on any self-respecting keyboard. The caps-lock key can go just about anywhere that it won't be hit by mistake. >Since then I have bought an Amiga 2000. I have not yet performed this >surgery on its keyboard, but I plan to. It probably won't work since the keys are different sizes, unlike the A1000 where they were the same size. -Fred -- # Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA # 1-602-491-0048 asuvax!{nud,mcdphx}!estinc!fnf
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (09/01/89)
(Another fussy keyboard user speaks...)
The CAPS LOCK key is where it is because IBM said so. That's
the way it is in their latest revision of the PC keyboard, and few
other manufacturers of 80x86-based machines have the guts to go
against it. (One who does is Zenith, who were making nicely laid-
out keyboards long before IBM brought their original (!) views to
keyboard design. Fortunately, Zenith saw no reason to stop doing
it right.)
After 8 years of keyboard design and re-design, IBM has just
about got it right. I've heard of clone keyboards that let you
flip a switch and swap keycaps between CAPS LOCK and Control -
this would give a quite nice keyboard layout.
The Mac has a nice big Control key back where it belongs.
Personally, I can live with CAPS LOCK and Control sharing the
position to the left of the A key, although I'd really prefer
putting CAPS LOCK far enough away that I'll hit it only when I
want to. The free space could then be taken up by a wide Control
key that will be easy to hit.
*** FLAME ON ***
As a person who makes his living through a keyboard, I'm
disgusted with the games being played by major manufacturers over
their keyboards. I'll provide my own keyboard, at my own expense,
rather than use some of the garbage that's out there. "Oh, you'll
get used to the layout," people say. Sure. Try getting used to a
layout when you're using four radically different keyboards every
day.
If standardization is so unimportant, why don't some car
manufacturers swap the gas and brake pedals for variety's sake?
Say it's unimportant to a taxi driver who, at the end of the day,
gets into his own car, hits the wrong pedal, and runs into a tree
before he gets a chance to re-adapt.
I can see two reasons for keyboard manufacturers moving keys
all over the place. First of all, the people who design these key-
boards might really not know what they're doing. It's easy to
design trash if you don't have to use it day in and day out; this
is as true with hardware as it is with software.
The second reason is a bit sinister. Perhaps a vendor wants
users to become accustomed to a peculiar layout that nobody else
makes. This gives that vendor a subtle psychological lock-in which
would work in his favour if a user ever tried out someone else's
equipment; nobody else's keyboards would feel right.
*** FLAME OFF ***
There. I'm glad I got that off my chest. BTW I find Amiga
keyboards to be among the better ones. I like the 1000's keyboard
a bit more than the 2000's because of the large backspace key -
it's easier to hit when I make mistakes. The 1000's keyboard also
has a nicer touch (more tactile feedback) than the 2000's keyboard.
Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP
"This is my new .signature," Tom concluded.C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) (09/01/89)
In a previous posting, Larry Phillips responds to a posting by johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch): >>Am I the only one who tries to hit control characters only to get C or E in >>my text (or whatever)? When I saw the keymap editor my heart leaped for joy >>because I thought I could make the caps lock into another controlkey and move >>the caps lock to an unused position. Unfortunately the keymap editor can't do >>that :-( >>Does anybody have a program which would allow me to fix this "problem"? >I don't think you'll have much luck. The caps lock is a special one, requiring >a press and release for 'key down', and a press and release for 'key up. I >could be wrong though. > >-larry In regard to caps lock requiring a press and release for 'key down' and another press and release for a 'key up', on the KEYBOARD screen of Sonix 2.0, you can define the caps lock key as a note. Then whenever you press it, you get a note out of the speakers. Wouldn't that indicate that Sonix is reading each press and release of the caps lock as a 'key down/key up' pair? Sonix seems to treat the caps lock like any regular key... I am not an Amiga programmer and I have no real experience with keymaps; there may be something I am missing here. # Baird McIntosh (this space available for advertisement or witty quote.) # # INTERNET- c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu BITNET- c503719@umcvmb.bitnet #
jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (09/01/89)
In article <3101@spudge.UUCP> johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch) writes: >I find it hard to believe but in over a year of reading this group I have >never seen anybody complain about the position that the caps lock occupies. I was very glad to see that CAPS LOCK key in the same position as it is on the VT100 and the LA36. My fingers have this habit if pressing CAPS LOCK whenever they have to type 3 or more uppercase letters, and CAPS LOCK again when done. (This comes from writing too much code in the MACRO-10 assembler using the convention of code in all caps and comments in upper and lower case.) The reversal of CAPS LOCK and CONTROL on the HP2621 gives me problems. However, note the past tense in the first line of the above paragraph. My fingers don't use CAPS LOCK as much as they used to. (Something about switching to a OS that allows (demands) lowercase in file names and commands.) And CAPS LOCK affects the keyboard and all windows, not just the one currently selected by the mouse. So my fingers won't get upset now if the CAPS LOCK button becomes nonfunctional, but they will complain quite loudly if the CONTROL key is moved any closer to the "A" key. They say the position is critical, and the effort to reach that distance is irrelevent. (Anyone else have fingers that 'talk' to the brain ? :-) Looking at the relative positions, one would get the impression that the manufacturer feels that the CAPS LOCK key is more important than the CONTROL key. As long as they are selling to the general public, where non-programmers outnumber programmers several to one, this is so. The number of people out there that know how to use a CAPS LOCK key (and think they need it) far exceeds the number of people that know how to generate a Control-C character (or even need to know). But nothing I say will change the fact that serious computer users are a vocal lot, complain when things that could be changed are not changed to match their personal preferences, and have opinions that differ from mine. So there! :-) -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: JMS@F74.TYMNET.COM or jms@tymix.tymnet.com McDonnell Douglas FSCO | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-D21 | PDP-10 support: My car's license plate is "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | narrator.device: "I didn't say that, my Amiga did!"
jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (09/02/89)
In article <220@estinc.UUCP> fnf@estinc.UUCP (Fred Fish) writes:
)I agree that the positions of the caps-lock and control keys on most
)"modern" keyboards are highly unsatisfactory (or less politely, they suck!).
)The control key belongs immediately to the left of the 'A' key on any
)self-respecting keyboard. The caps-lock key can go just about anywhere
)that it won't be hit by mistake.
)
)>Since then I have bought an Amiga 2000. I have not yet performed this
)>surgery on its keyboard, but I plan to.
)
)It probably won't work since the keys are different sizes, unlike the A1000
)where they were the same size.
)
)-Fred
Unless you do your surgery in software.
On some Fish Disk and on the disks handed to developers at DevCon, there
is a Commodity named NoCapsLock. Guess what it does? The version handed
out at DevCon also converts middle mouse to shift-left.
Source is provided: it would be easy to hack it to track capslock
down/up and have it simulate "control."
There is a little TSR that fixes PC AT keyboards (where control is out
of reach). I can't imaging living without it, when dealing with one of
those things.
jimm
--
Jim Mackraz, I and I Computing "... the signs are very ominous,
{cbmvax,well,oliveb}!amiga!jimm and a chill wind blows."
- Justice Blackmun
Opinions are my own. Comments are not to be taken as Commodore official policy.kuan@iris.ucdavis.edu (Francisco Kuan) (09/02/89)
Huh?? I'm confused. I've always thought the control key was supposed to be immediately to the left of the 'a' key. Every keyboard I've seen, from terminals, apple //'s, IBM clones, Macs, amigas, all stick thecontrol key there. The only exception is the new IBM PS/2's, which stick the caps lock where the control key should be.
swarren@eugene.uucp (Steve Warren) (09/05/89)
In article <5250@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> kuan@iris.ucdavis.edu (Francisco Kuan) writes: >Huh?? I'm confused. I've always thought the control key was >supposed to be immediately to the left of the 'a' key. Every >keyboard I've seen, from terminals, apple //'s, IBM clones, Macs, >amigas, all stick thecontrol key there. The only exception is >the new IBM PS/2's, which stick the caps lock where the control >key should be. In my office right now there are two different models of C. Itoh terminals (one very old and one very new). These VT100 terminals both place the cap-lock key to the left of the "A" key, with the <CTL> key left of the cap-lock key. --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------- {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
charles@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM (Charles Brown) (09/06/89)
>)> Since then I have bought an Amiga 2000. I have not yet performed this >)> surgery on its keyboard, but I plan to. >) It probably won't work since the keys are different sizes, unlike the A1000 >) where they were the same size. >) -Fred I can still do it. I just have to stick labels on the keys because I cannot switch the keytops anymore. > Unless you do your surgery in software. > On some Fish Disk and on the disks handed to developers at DevCon, there > is a Commodity named NoCapsLock. Guess what it does? The version handed > out at DevCon also converts middle mouse to shift-left. > Source is provided: it would be easy to hack it to track capslock > down/up and have it simulate "control." > Jim Mackraz I looked at this shortly after I bought my Amiga1000 years ago. It looked impossible. All keys on the keyboard report up/down events to the Amiga EXCEPT the CapsLock key which only reported down events. It still would be easy to ignore the CapsLock, but that is not good enuf. It has been a long time since I looked at this, and the documentation is several miles and several hours from here. So correct me if I am wrong, but I think it won't work in software and that a hardware fix is the only way to do it. -- Charles Brown charles@cv.hp.com or charles%hpcvca@hplabs.hp.com or hplabs!hpcvca!charles or "Hey you!" Not representing my employer.
CSD29_R3%UNO.BITNET@vm.tcs.tulane.edu (09/08/89)
In article 1662@convex.uucp swarren@eugene.uucp (Steve Warren) writes: ->in article (forgot the number) kuan@cris.ucdavis.edu (Francisco Kuan) ->writes: ->> All the PCs (apple //, Amiga, etc.) have the control key next to the ->> a key. The only exception is the PS/2 from IBM. -> I am using C Itoh vt100 terminal and etc. ,etc. I have a Commodore 128 and an Amiga, and they both have the caps lock (shift lock on the 128) next to the a key. Apples and Macs must be a bit screwy in that all the keyboards that I've seen (yes even the old Facit typewriters) have the shift (or caps) lock key next to the a key. -Dave @ University of New Orleans. CSD29_R3@UNO P. S. Sorry for not quoting exactly. I quoted from memory, and that could get a bit cluttered at times. --Dave..