a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (09/29/89)
In article <2057@leah.Albany.Edu> wfh58@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond) writes: >I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not >need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent >the wheel). You can open a document, take a clip, close that document, >and go to another to insert the clip. Editors that eliminate unnecessary >features are smaller. I agree that clipboard support is a Good Thing, if only to shut up the Mac enthusiasts out there. Having said that, though... HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT MULTI-WINDOWING IS UNNECESSARY? To me, one of the sublime joys of CygnusEd is being able to have multiple windows open at once. Why should I have to close one document in order to paste text into another? If I want to return to my original document I don't want to have to re-read it, particularly if it's large. ESPECIALLY if it lives on a floppy disk. Here are some other good reasons for multiple editor windows: - taking multiple clips from a document without re-reading - cutting and pasting into multiple documents - visually comparing two documents - viewing or editing two widely separated portions of the same document (e.g. for building a summary or table of contents) Note that I do most of the above every day. I access Usenet through a local BBS and do an ASCII capture, since I don't have any sort of a "read news" facility, or even Unix for that matter. CED is great for snipping out various bits and building other files like my .signature collection. Right now I have the original message in one window as I compose this reply in another. I have enough memory not to worry about the size of CygnusEd, and it's very fast despite its size. Considering that I routinely boil down 400K text files held in VD0: it's hardly an issue anyway. If I have a particularly heavy edit to do on the MS-DOS side of my bridge board, I ship the file over to the Amiga side so I can use CygnusEd - it's that much nicer than anything I have for MS-DOS. I don't want this to sound like a flame, but I just couldn't let such remarks go unchallenged. The clipboard is one of the nicest features of the Mac, and should be adopted on the Amiga - but let's not adopt the Mac's limitations as part of the package. It might be possible to do wonderful things using just a clipboard and no multiple windows, but it would be so much nicer to have both. Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP Not representing ASDG or CygnusSoft, just a satisfied user. "Necessity is the mother of the re-invented wheel."
swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) (09/29/89)
In article <899@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: :In article <8909250219.AA13930@jade.berkeley.edu> GORRIEDE@UREGINA1.BITNET (Dennis Robert Gorrie) writes: :> :>By the way, what is the status of CygnusEd Pro 2, the update? : :Release 2? Coming soon. One of the things taking time is: a manual that's :about three times as comprehensive as the original, a much better editor, :and a few personal things. : :pk : :-- :Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ``We look for things. Things that make us go.'' : UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry : CIS: 76004,1765 PLINK: pk-asdg Since there had been some gripes and discussions about the lack of clipboard use, I thought it fair to bring Perry to task (if the CEDPro release 2 is still as last described to me). While I had high admiration for CEDPro (I use it, but may go to TXed Plus) I was dismayed that the original release ignored the clipboards. So everyone, ask Perry if CED Pro release 2 will support the clipboard. He indicated to me that clipboard support was NOT in CEDPro 2. This stinks royaly!! There is NONONO excuse for this. It's time we let developers know what has been mulling down underneath for so long, hoping to let certain failings go un-noticed, just so the Amiga would survive. Well, it's time to come out of the closet and say it- IF IT DOESN'T SUPPORT CLIPBOARD BUT SHOULD- _I WON'T BUY IT_!! Funny how developers will run to add AREXX (and that's nice) but ignore the clipboard. We need to draw attention to those who ignore this important part of user support. Joel
wfh58@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond) (09/29/89)
In article <1627@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US>, swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) writes: > Since there had been some gripes and discussions about the lack of clipboard > use, . . . > . . . There is NONONO excuse for this. > It's time we let developers know what has been mulling down underneath for so > long, hoping to let certain failings go un-noticed, just so the Amiga would > survive. Well, it's time to come out of the closet and say it- > > IF IT DOESN'T SUPPORT CLIPBOARD BUT SHOULD- _I WON'T BUY IT_!! > I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent the wheel). You can open a document, take a clip, close that document, and go to another to insert the clip. Editors that eliminate unnecessary features are smaller. Note that under WorkBench 1.3 the clips don't have to be put in devs:clipboards. Perhaps the fact that this was true in the past explains why some developers opted away from the clipboard facility. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ William F. Hammond Dept. of Mathematics & Statistics 518-442-4625 SUNYA wfh58@leah.albany.edu Albany, NY 12222 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
cna@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Na Choon Piaw) (09/30/89)
In article <2057@leah.Albany.Edu> wfh58@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond) writes: >I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not >need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent >the wheel). You can open a document, take a clip, close that document, >and go to another to insert the clip. Editors that eliminate unnecessary >features are smaller. Not true. I find that most of the time, I use multiple windows in CED to read different parts of the same part, or even read multiple files side by side. (On the same screen) Besides, have you noticed that CED stores the "cut" buffer between files? That means you can open a document, take that clip you want, close that document, and go to the one you want to add that clip. Agreed, editors that eliminate unnecessary features are smaller, but even so, CED is as fast as I want it to be. (I'd like it to have its own macro language, though --- a fully "low" level one, so that I can program things like show-match-mode in EMACS and add stuff like that. ARexx, good as it is, just doesn't cut it for stuff like that. Not LISP, though.. Something like forth, which is small, would be nice and fast....) >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >William F. Hammond Dept. of Mathematics & Statistics >518-442-4625 SUNYA >wfh58@leah.albany.edu Albany, NY 12222 >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just my opinion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Na Choon Piaw P.O Box, 4067, Berkeley, CA 94704-0067 cna@cory.berkeley.edu Disclaimer: I'm speaking only for myself! piaw@ocf.berkeley.edu "Still on honeymoon with his Amiga...."
rouaix@fitou.uucp (Francois Rouaix) (09/30/89)
My 2 cents: An editor that makes full use of the clipboard: AZ Version 1.40 is available on fish disk 228. The author took special care in the clipboard routines, so that it'll work with other products using the Clipboard (Excellence, Gizmoz (from 1986, and they were using the clipboard all right), Cloanto, and others). Even if you have your favorite editor, you might want to check your clipboard routines with AZ ;-) --Francois
new@udel.edu (Darren New) (10/03/89)
>In article <2057@leah.Albany.Edu> wfh58@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond) writes: >>I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not >>need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent [ . . . much flames about multi-windows deleted . . . ] Funny, when I read this I naturally assumed that the poster meant that with clipboard support, the editor need not support multi windows because you can start the editor more than once and talk back and forth. I didn't imagine that the poster meant that you only needed one window. Sheesh! (Or maybe I'm wrong...) -- Darren
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (10/04/89)
Received: from GEORG.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 41539; Fri 29-Sep-89 12:19:57 PDT
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 89 12:19 PDT
From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: CygnusEdPro Bug --> NO CLIPBOARD SUPPORT
To: "eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM
In-Reply-To: Your message of 29 Sep 89 12:08 PDT
Message-ID: <19890929191951.0.KOSMA@GEORG.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not
need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent
the wheel). You can open a document, take a clip, close that document,
and go to another to insert the clip. Editors that eliminate unnecessary
features are smaller.
perhaps you haven't fully explored the power of modern text editing
facilities, but there are MANY MANY more benefits of multiple windowing
(and having multiple files loaded simultaneously) than simple
cut-and-paste. For example, reading two (or more) files simultaneously,
reading different parts of one file simultaneously, allowing source
compare functionality, as well as making the cut-and-paste jobs easier
(and easier to plan too...if you're only looking at one document at a
time it can be tougher to figure out what you need to pull out of one
and paste into the other).
so, anyway, who's going to port the full gnuemacs to the amiga? ;-).
monty
kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.comjac@muslix.llnl.gov (James Crotinger) (10/05/89)
In article <2057@leah.Albany.Edu> wfh58@leah.Albany.Edu (William F. Hammond) writes: >I agree. Please note that an editor that uses the clipboard does not >need to have a multi-windowing facility (i.e., does not need to reinvent >the wheel). You can open a document, take a clip, close that document, >and go to another to insert the clip. Editors that eliminate unnecessary >features are smaller. Well, I'm also very vocal about Amiga's lack of clipboard support. I also work with Mac (only when I have to!) and Suns, and I often get very frustrated when I go back to the Amiga and can't to/from every window in sight! There is just no good excuse for this on a multitasking machine! However, the clipboard is no substitute for multiple windows! Certainly there are times when this is true, but not always. I really like the emacs model, where you can have multiple windows and multiple buffers, not all of which may be showing. I also like being able to open side-by-side windows in emacs (gnuemacs anyway). Occaisionally this is very useful. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >William F. Hammond Dept. of Mathematics & Statistics >518-442-4625 SUNYA >wfh58@leah.albany.edu Albany, NY 12222 >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim