lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (09/06/89)
In <8909060608.AA02404@jade.berkeley.edu>, CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes: >This of course excludes all the ppl in Europe, Oz, etc. etc. >who wouldn't mind being able to get ahold of their updates... Just a minor point. People (I assume that's what 'ppl' is) in Euope, Oz, etc. etc. are not 'all excluded'. On Compuserve, we regularly see folks calling in from South America (Venezuela, Colombia, Argentina, etc.), Europe (Switzerland, Germany, France, Denmark, etc.), the middle east (Bahrain), England (London), Australia (Melbourne, Sydney), New Zealand (Aukland, Christchurch) Japan (Tokyo, Osaka) Puerto Rico (San Juan), Panama (The US military base), and so on. The charges from Canada are not overwhelming, especially taking into account that some of these folks pay in the order of $50-70 US per hour. Granted, some of them may have 'bucks bleeding from their wallets', but many don't, and use the service for the occasional download of important software. I think in this case, you might say it is important software. I won't speak about the other services' charges, but a download of the new WB stuff from Compuserve will cost in the order of about $3.00 US. Let's call that $5.00 US in case you get lost on there for a while. This is based upon a call using Datapac from Canada ( surcharge of $10.00/hr. US.. thanks Canada ), at 2400 baud, using B+ protocol (Access!, JRComm, etc.). If it isn't worth that to you, I guess you'll just have to wait until your local dealer has it and can give it to you. -larry -- The Mac? Oh, that's just like a computer, only slower. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) (09/06/89)
What about the rather large number of us who DON't Have access to Bucks, or Compuspend, or Genie or Plunk or whatever those services are really called??? For example, for Canadians to access any of these services, there are major league data access charges that at least double the cost of getting to any given service... This of course excludes all the ppl in Europe, Oz, etc. etc. who wouldn't mind being able to get ahold of their updates... Can we at LEAST get it shipped out via Comp.binaries.amiga???? We'll at least know that Bob Page won't have screwed around with it... ( and of course, this ignores the whole issue of the fact that a heck of a lot of ppl won't even know about it, as they don't HAVE modems at ALL!!! (SO how are THEY supposed to get the Damn thing???? ) Thank you CBM for updating your system software, but GEEZE you make it bloody difficult for those of us WITHOUT money bleeding out our wallets to GET the updates... Now can someone come up with an approved method for the rest of the universe to get WB1.3.2 unlike the small group of ppl who have access to premium cost computer services??? JpC -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan P. Crone CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET cronejp@mcl.UUCP Amiga-L@uregina1.bitnet List moderator. Heisenberg might have been here...
swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) (09/07/89)
In article <8909060608.AA02404@jade.berkeley.edu> CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes:
:What about the rather large number of us who DON't Have
:access to Bucks, or Compuspend, or Genie or Plunk or whatever
:those services are really called???
[a bunch of whinning left out]
:Thank you CBM for updating your system software, but GEEZE you
:make it bloody difficult for those of us WITHOUT money
:bleeding out our wallets to GET the updates...
:
:Now can someone come up with an approved method for the rest
:of the universe to get WB1.3.2 unlike the small
:group of ppl who have access to premium cost computer services???
:
:
:JpC
:--------------------------------------------------------------------
:Jonathan P. Crone CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET cronejp@mcl.UUCP
:Amiga-L@uregina1.bitnet List moderator.
For the life of me, I don't see why you are complaining. For one, we may
see dealers eventually giving out updates (this seems as logical if not
more logical than via BBS's).
Be happy that CBM is trying to get it out at all. How many other companies
"give away" updates like CBM is doing with 1.3.2? Have you seen what the
new TOS for Atari is going for, or DOS for IBM, or System x.x for the Muc?
Now I'm starting to get sick of this type of incesant whinning over such
petty gripes. No one can demand CBM make WB updates available at all, let
alone by such a thoughtful way CBM has attempted.
Be glad THEY had the guts to actually use modern day telecommunications for
a worth while purpose. Quite raggin' on them, at least it's a step in
the right direction.
BTW- CI$ and PLINK have NO monthly charge or minimum. It costs only a sign-up
fee. After that, one can go get the new WB for a rather decent price only
when THEY want it (for less than a cost of a disk too). No need to
use it, unless you need to. $25-$30 for a sign up that lasts a life time isn't
too bad, is it?
If you must rag on something, pick something worthwhile.
--
- Joel E. Swan
[ swan@jolnet.UUCP <> PLINK ID: Amiga*joel ]
[ "Amigas.... for the rest of us." <> CI$ : 74746,3240 ]
[ "...peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:8 ]portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) (09/07/89)
In article <1506@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) writes:
Be happy that CBM is trying to get it out at all. How many other companies
"give away" updates like CBM is doing with 1.3.2? Have you seen what the
new TOS for Atari is going for, or DOS for IBM, or System x.x for the Muc?
Apple actually gives away new releases of the System on commercial
services such as Compuserve. If you want the fancy version of the
release, on disks with Apple labels together with pretty printed books
in an attractive box, you pay money at your local Apple dealer.
This is nothing different than the way Commodore is currently doing
things, and I hear few Apple owners complain about the way Apple
distributes their updates.
Leave Commodore alone. They go through considerable effort to prepare
a maintenance release of 1.3, and all you people can do is bitch and
moan.
--M
--
__
\/ Michael Portuesi Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, Inc.
portuesi@SGI.COM
"$16,000! And all he wanted to do was dip us in plaster!"filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) (09/08/89)
In article <7850@cbmvax.UUCP> Andy Finkel writes: >But, on one of the "dollar drains" its not coming to your system unsolicited. >(a copyright is still valid in that case, but a license probably isn't.. > like a letter, the sender still holds the copyright on the contents, > the reciever owns the media.) So the answer is yes, its more valid >or enforcable when posted on one of those "dollar drains" then when >posted here. Whether or not it is valid or enforcable at all I have >no personal opinion on; but it is less so on Usenet. There are at least two well-established methods of >solicited< distribution on Usenet/Internet. One is FTP, useful only for IP-connected sites; the other is a mailable archive server, useful for all Usenet-connected sites. In both cases the user must explicitly request a file in order to receive it. Yes, either could be spoofed. I believe that CI$ or any of the other "dollar drains" could also be spoofed -- more effort would be involved, but it could be done. I suggest that Commodore contact several trusted FTP and archive server sites, give them permission to act as primary distribution points for 1.3.2, and give them correct copies. One of the uiuc sites would be good for FTP; I don't know of any Amiga archive servers but suspect that someone who runs one for PClones would be willing to act as a secure site for a single important Amiga file. >3) You'd like virus writers and Usenet mail spoofers to be defeated > by a byte count and checksum. > (so would I, but I don't think it has a chance.) Sure. But let's not be overly paranoid. If someone really wants to get a virus into people's machines, there are lots of routes by which to do it. Any particular machine's protection against viruses is only as good as the weakest part. FTP or archive-server access to a known site is a little unsafe, but so is buying a disk at a dealer [which might have been a floor demo, exposed to viruses, then re-shrink-wrapped in the back]. If a particular >user< believes FTP/archive-server to be unsafe, they can still get it from CI$ or a dealer. Personally, I would trust CI$ slightly more than FTP from uiuc -- but not $3 worth more. >Bela< >andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy >Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Bela Lubkin * * filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us CIS: 73047,1112 @ * * ...ucbvax!ucscc!gorn!filbo ^^^ REALLY slow [months] R Pentomino * Filbo @ Pyrzqxgl (408) 476-4633 & XBBS (408) 476-4945
bjc@pollux.UUCP (Betty J. Clay) (09/08/89)
In article <1506@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> swan@jolnet.UUCP (Joel Swan) writes: >In article <8909060608.AA02404@jade.berkeley.edu> CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes: >:What about the rather large number of us who DON't Have >:access to Bucks, or Compuspend, or Genie or Plunk or whatever > >For the life of me, I don't see why you are complaining. For one, we may >see dealers eventually giving out updates (this seems as logical if not > >BTW- CI$ and PLINK have NO monthly charge or minimum. It costs only a sign-up >fee. After that, one can go get the new WB for a rather decent price only > - Joel E. Swan Joel - thank you for expressing my opinion so nicely! I have been reading this group from the beginning of the Amiga. It has seemed to me that the group jumps on Commodore no matter WHAT they do! If there are no bug fixes, there is constant complaint about things not getting fixed. If they do get fixed, there is no possible way to please people about the manner of distribution. Commodore has really tried hard to please this time (and at other times as well), and the complaints are still pouring forth. Perhaps you have a free account on Usenet - many people do not. I know of many who pay dearly for access to THIS service. CompuServe and the others are not all that expensive in comparison, if you have to pay for Usenet. As for that signup fee, even that is not hard to get around. I know that CompuServe, in particular, is always putting free introductory packs in magazines, all kinds of products, etc. With one of those packs, you do not have to pay a sign-up fee at all, and you get $15 worth of free online time. I think it was PC magazine that had them only a few weeks ago, and most modems include them in the package. Look around. You'll probably find one - and that free $15 will be far more than enough to download the update. You will find it in AmigaTech Forum, Library 15. Betty --------------------------------------------------------------------- Betty Clay ......texbell!pollux!bjc CompuServe 76702,337 --------------------------------------------------------------------- .
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (09/08/89)
In <2335@cpsc6a.att.com>, crs@cpsc6a.att.com (Chris (I'm a programmer, not a Doctor!!) Seaman) writes: >I am not trying to complain about Commodore's maintenance release >procedures. I am simply trying to find a way to get a copy without >paying the exorbitant fees charged by the "national" BBS systems. Yea.. better to let others pay the freight here on Usenet, then make all sorts of demands that you get even better value for the money others spend on your behalf. >I understand that the intent is to make it available through local >dealers, but this, in my opinion, can lead to a greater chance for >virus infection than distribution over Usenet. It also assumes that >my local dealer will even bother to get a copy. (I know of a few >who wouldn't). If he doesn't, you need a new dealer. If he takes no precautions to ensure that the disk he gets from Commodore remains uninfected, then he needs a new head. If he sells Amigas, he will get the new stuff with them. Think, willya! >Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman It's tempting. -larry -- The Mac? Oh, that's just like a computer, only slower. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
) Seaman) (09/09/89)
portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) writes:
<
< Leave Commodore alone. They go through considerable effort to prepare
< a maintenance release of 1.3, and all you people can do is bitch and
< moan.
<
< Michael Portuesi Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, Inc.
I am not trying to complain about Commodore's maintenance release
procedures. I am simply trying to find a way to get a copy without
paying the exorbitant fees charged by the "national" BBS systems.
I understand that the intent is to make it available through local
dealers, but this, in my opinion, can lead to a greater chance for
virus infection than distribution over Usenet. It also assumes that
my local dealer will even bother to get a copy. (I know of a few
who wouldn't).
I applaud Commodore for making the upgrade available. As many have
pointed out, it is more than any other company would do. However, the
upgrade does me no good unless I can somehow get it to my Amiga. Until
that time, it may as well not exist.
--
Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | ///
crs@cpsc6a.att.com <or> | /// Only AMIGA
...!att!cpsc6a!crs | \\\/// Makes it Possible!
The Home of the Killer Smiley | \XX/ejkst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Eric J. Kennedy) (09/09/89)
Is the two-interlaced-one-non-interlaced-screen bug fixed in wb 1.3.2? Or will that take a change to the ROMs to fix? I am *royally* sick of getting stung by this bug. BTW, I don't hear much appreciation out there, so let me say it: Thank you, Commodore-Amiga, for providing this update and making it available at no cost! -- Eric Kennedy ejkst@cis.unix.pitt.edu
langz@asylum.SF.CA.US (Lang Zerner) (09/10/89)
In article <21.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) writes: >[FTP or mail archive services are not unsolicited] One of the uiuc sites would >be good for FTP; I don't know of any Amiga archive servers Try archive-server@kilowatt.sun.com. >Personally, I would trust CI$ slightly more than FTP from uiuc -- but not $3 >worth more. $3! $3! Ooooooooh. Break the bank! I had no idea you guys were all quibbling about three measly dollars (I don't include Canadians and non-Americans here). Why didn't you complain when you bought your Enhancer package at the dealer for $10-15 (or did you -- maybe I've got a mental block against whining)? Come on you guys, three dollars one-time charge for an update? You know what IBM charges for an update? And if you spent as much time thinking about the situation as you did bitching about it, you might have come up with some solutions for eliminating even that ridiculously small cost. CI$ hands out free sample packs including $10 or $15 worth of online time all over the place. When you face a problem, why don't you use your brain and your eyes first -- not your mouth. Followups to alt.flame -- Be seeing you... --Lang Zerner langz@asylum.sf.ca.us UUCP:bionet!asylum!langz ARPA:langz@athena.mit.edu "...and every morning we had to go and LICK the road clean with our TONGUES!"
filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) (09/10/89)
In article <3890@asylum.SF.CA.US> Lang Zerner writes: >In article <21.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) writes: >>Personally, I would trust CI$ slightly more than FTP from uiuc -- but not $3 >>worth more. >$3! $3! Ooooooooh. Break the bank! The point was not the money. The point was that I trust an FTP site about as much as I trust CI$. I >have< a CI$ account and will probably get 1.3.2 from there next time I log on.
C506634@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Eric Edwards) (09/11/89)
In article <7847@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes: >Usenet is indeed international and I'd like to use >it as a distribution medium, but... >(yes, there's a but) [......] d ?" > "Yes, Your Honor. My computer was just sitting there, and poof, > there it was in the spool directory. I didn't ask for it or anything.") > >(perhaps this is one reason that the GNU software hasn't been posted > to comp.sources ? Just wondering.)
dwi@manta.NOSC.MIL (Steve Stamper) (09/12/89)
I wrote a short program that fixes this several months ago. i posted it on bix and could maybe put it on this ftp site. (the interlaced/non interlace screen cycle bug in intuition that is) The program is called fixintuition, it is a hack but works. -Roger Uzun
blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (09/13/89)
From article <19481@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, by ejkst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Eric J. Kennedy): > > Is the two-interlaced-one-non-interlaced-screen bug fixed in wb 1.3.2? > Or will that take a change to the ROMs to fix? I am *royally* sick of > getting stung by this bug. Likewise! A question on this bug: If it hasn't been fixed, would forcing ALL screens into interlace avoid the problem? I saw a version of SetLace that pops up a requester and asks if you want to force all screens into interlace. If that would work as a band-aid, it sure would be a big help. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 Here: utah-cs!esunix!blgardne {ucbvax,allegra,decvax}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne There: uunet!iconsys!caeco!i-core!worsel!blaine (My Amiga running uucp) "Nobody will ever need more than 64K." "Nobody needs multitasking on a PC."
bartonr@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Robert Barton) (10/03/89)
ejkst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Eric J. Kennedy) writes: > Is the two-interlaced-one-non-interlaced-screen bug fixed in wb 1.3.2? Is this bug possibly hardware-related? I have tried to duplicate this with my A1000, but no matter what mix of interlaced and non-interlaced screens I use, I can switch between them in any order with no problems. (Not that I'm complaining.)
armhold@topaz.rutgers.edu (George Armhold) (10/06/89)
Ok, there's been quite a bit of discussion/flames regarding Commodore's policy regarding the 1.3.2 distribution. I downloaded the zoo archive from Compuserve, and I would like to make it available in the lab where I work (Faculty/Staff Development Center, Rutgers University.) My question goes out to CBM: can I legally distribute WB 1.3.2 from this lab? If not, is there some way I can get special permission? Having the disk in this lab would make alot of people happy, seeing as there are quite a few Amiga's here at Rutgers (owned by the students, that is) and the Jersey Amiga Users Group meets here every month. This would be a great way to make the upgrade available. Thanks, -George