stevep@galadriel.bt.co.uk (Steve Paine) (10/06/89)
Hi there. I know youve argued about the Roland D5 and Kawai K1 before but I need a little help from my friendly net users. (grovel off!) Basically I have a few questions. 1) Does multitimbral mean I can play (with an 8 voice multitimbaral machine) the full range of 8 voices with 16 note polyphony at the same time? My first thought is that i'm going to have to sacrifice some of the polyphony to get more voices. Is this the case? 2) With regard to the D5's percussion section, does it count as one voice. i.e can I play seven other voices along with all the percussion sounds. (I think I'm getting more confused by the minute here!) 3) Wait for it... which would be the best machine to buy taking the following into consideration: a) It would be a first 'real' keyboard for me. (Casio had a fair amount of trade from me a few years ago!) b) The technicalities of programming voices should'nt prove a problem as I can pick that sort of thing up fairly easily. c) I dont want some 'all singing, all dancing' 'beatbox' thats going to be impressive for a week and then useless to me (not neccesarily out of date) within no time. d) I intend to start piano lessons at the same time as getting the keyboard, so something to practice on between lessons would be nice. (P.S. Which has the nicest sounding piano on it?) e) I have an Amiga which i'd like to use to write some music with. (Just for fun.) f) I havent got a reverb/effects unit. g) I havent got a drum machine. Any responses would be greatly appreciated and also any old D5 vs K1 mail would be nice. Thanks a million. - Steve. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
russ@prism.gatech.EDU (Russell Shackelford) (10/08/89)
In article <382@galadriel.bt.co.uk>, stevep@galadriel.bt.co.uk (Steve Paine) writes: > Hi there. > I know youve argued about the Roland D5 and Kawai K1 before but I need a little help from my friendly net users. (grovel off!) > > Basically I have a few questions. > > 1) Does multitimbral mean I can play (with an 8 voice multitimbaral machine) the full range of 8 voices with 16 note polyphony at the same time? My first > thought is that i'm going to have to sacrifice some of the polyphony to get more voices. Is this the case? > As best I can tell (from messing around with my K1 and my AT with seq'er), I can sequence any combination of whatever 8 multi-sounds I have loaded at any given moment. Each of the 8 sounds can be one or more sounds, i.e., one sound (voice? my terminology sucks, I', sorry) can be, a drum in one zone of the keyboard, another drum in another zone. The rule seems to be that you can combine 4 sound sources into one voice. Some instrument sounds my in fact require 4 sources to "sculpt" the sound appropriately, in which case each of yer 8 vioces is in fact one instrument; on the other hand, if you can get sounds you like out of only 2 sources, then each of your voices can in fact be two distinct instrument sounds, for a max of 16. At the moment, I;ve got the K1 loaded with (1) accoustic bass, (2) "kick" bass, (3) piano, (4) organ, (5) flute, (6) bass drum AND snare (in different zones of the keyboard, (7) tom-tom and hihat (in different zones of the keyboard, and (8) unused. Thus, I am using 7 of my 8 "multi" voices, but I have the effect of 9 instruments. Of these 9 sounds, any 8 notes may be played simultaneously, as the K1 will dynamically assign to yer needs. > 2) With regard to the D5's percussion section, does it count as one voice. > i.e can I play seven other voices along with all the percussion sounds. > (I think I'm getting more confused by the minute here!) > Can't speak for the specifics of the D5, except to say that I didn;t like its drum sounds as well as the K1's. On the K1 drums eat as many voices as you require, BUT (as described above) you can get 2 drum sounds per voice, e.g., I'm using 2 of my 8 voices for drums but get 4 drum sounds. > 3) Wait for it... which would be the best machine to buy taking the following into consideration: > a) It would be a first 'real' keyboard for me. (Casio had a fair > amount of trade from me a few years ago!) I'm a keyboard virgin, so what do I know, but I liked the K1 keyboard better: the keys are bigger (longer) than the D5's; the K1 has aftertouch, which the D5 doesn't; the two feel different to me but I'm not sure which is better, they're just different in feel. > b) The technicalities of programming voices should'nt prove a problem > as I can pick that sort of thing up fairly easily. I've got the "Big Noise" K1 Editor and librarian running on my AT. This makes programming voices both trivial and fun. It cost me $89 at Micro Music in Atl. The only thing I don't like is that it is copy protected which both (a) makes it a consumable, and (b) pisses me off. It comes with approx 1000 sounds for the K1, some of which are duplicates of the factory settings. FYI, I also got the PRISM seq'er there ($80). Both PRISM and Big Noise are primarily mouse-driven, which is fine with me, so you'd also want a Logitech mouse (best there is in my book). I also opted against the $99 midi card (401 compatible) in favor of the one for $169 that has SMPTE, etc, for synching with a portastudio (which I don't have one of yet) and which allows chase lock, or whatever they call it such that you don't have to start the tape at the beginning every time. > c) I dont want some 'all singing, all dancing' 'beatbox' thats > going to be impressive for a week and then useless to me > (not neccesarily out of date) within no time. I think the K1 us superior in this area. > d) I intend to start piano lessons at the same time as getting the > keyboard, so something to practice on between lessons would be nice. > (P.S. Which has the nicest sounding piano on it?) I like the K1 piano sounds better. The factory settings include 2 piano sounds, both of which sound good to me, just different (one's softer). > e) I have an Amiga which i'd like to use to write some music > with. (Just for fun). Whoops. I wouldn't have gone on about my AT setup had I read this 1st. Perhaps someone else can use the info.... > f) I havent got a reverb/effects unit. Reverb/effects: I'm shopping for a used Alesis MidiverbII. They show up around here used for $125-175 from time to time. Everybody seems to think they're bargains, as far as I can tell. > g) I havent got a drum machine. > > Any responses would be greatly appreciated and also any old D5 vs K1 mail would be nice. Thanks a million. > Some folks suggested to be that the K1-II might be the way to go. I opted against that, due to the fact that it is exactly a K1 plus reverb/effects plus ethe drums don't eat yer voices (in the same way; there are limits, dunno what they are). I spent $600 for a used Kq w/ stand and pedal, coulda done marginally better but I was in a hurry. Plan to spend ~$150 for a Midiverb II, for a total of $750. If I need more voices (which I don't yet by any means), I'll spend $200-250 for another used Box to use with the K1 keyboard. I figure this will cost the same/less than a K1-II, be a more gradual expenditure, gimme more flexibility and more options, and gimme more voices, both in numbers and in kind. I have several long files that I posted here about a month ago about the K1 and related matters. If you missed them and want them, lemme know, I'll mail'em to you. They're summaries of net input from others. -- Russell Shackelford School of Information and Computer Science Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA, 30332 russ@prism.gatech.edu (404) 834-4759
ddn@cbnews.ATT.COM (David D. Nason) (10/09/89)
In article <382@galadriel.bt.co.uk> stevep@galadriel.bt.co.uk (Steve Paine) writes: >Hi there. > I know youve argued about the Roland D5 and Kawai K1 before but I need a little help from my friendly net users. (grovel off!) > > Basically I have a few questions. > >1) Does multitimbral mean I can play (with an 8 voice multitimbaral machine) the full range of 8 voices with 16 note polyphony at the same time? My first >thought is that i'm going to have to sacrifice some of the polyphony to get more voices. Is this the case? The answer isn't real straight-forward (at least it wasn't to me). On the D5, you have "32 note polyphony", meaning that you can play 32 of the D5's "partials" simultaneously. "Partials" are the basic unit of sound on the D5 and they are combined to make up timbres/patches/voices/etc. Typically, the D5 "voices" are comprised of 1-4 partials. You can indeed assign 8 different voices to the 8 timbres in multi-timbral mode and play them simultaneously, but the real limit that I've run in to is the 32 partials. For example, you might have a rich piano sound which takes up 4 partials per note - there might be 5 note chords or whatever and thus there are 5*4=20 of your 32 partials. A friend of mine who has a K1 says he's run into the same thing (although the terms used by the different manufacturers are different so be careful when comparing). > >2) With regard to the D5's percussion section, does it count as one voice. >i.e can I play seven other voices along with all the percussion sounds. >(I think I'm getting more confused by the minute here!) The rhythm section is a separate timbre from the other 8. In other words, you can play all of the rhythm sounds on the rhythm timbre and still have the other 8 timbres for whatever you want (still keeping in mind the 32 partial limit). > >3) Wait for it... which would be the best machine to buy taking the following into consideration: > a) It would be a first 'real' keyboard for me. (Casio had a fair > amount of trade from me a few years ago!) > b) The technicalities of programming voices should'nt prove a problem > as I can pick that sort of thing up fairly easily. > c) I dont want some 'all singing, all dancing' 'beatbox' thats > going to be impressive for a week and then useless to me > (not neccesarily out of date) within no time. > d) I intend to start piano lessons at the same time as getting the > keyboard, so something to practice on between lessons would be nice. > (P.S. Which has the nicest sounding piano on it?) > e) I have an Amiga which i'd like to use to write some music > with. (Just for fun.) > f) I havent got a reverb/effects unit. > g) I havent got a drum machine. > >Any responses would be greatly appreciated and also any old D5 vs K1 mail would be nice. Thanks a million. > I'm not real familiar with the K1, but I've been real happy with the D5. I'm not a keyboard player, so most of the power of it for me has been realized through a sequencer that I'm using with it. The manuals are real easy to read so it's easy to learn how to use. There's a multitude of nice sounds already programmed in, some better than others. I think the piano sounds are good. I also think the D5 has much better rhythm sounds than the K5 (a particular comparison I made when I was shopping). On the other hand, the K5 has after-touch - the D5 doesn't. The K1 is a little noisier than the D5. I got my D5 for about $750. That's about all I can tell you in terms of comparisons. If you want to know more about the D5, e-mail me and I'd be glad to fill you in. david n
eczjr@clan.clan.nott.ac.uk (John Richards) (10/11/89)
I'm new to this net and couldn't get access to the mod.announce.newusers group so please excuse failings. Last year I bought a Yamaha DX27 secondhand, and now wish I'd saved for a better multi-timbral with aftertouch etc. machine. Still with my Atari ST and Steinburg Pro24 sequencer have been having a lot of fun. I now wish to upgrade my system and intend doing this by buying an expander box(synth without keyboard). I realise that this means that I will have to add after-touch effects manually to my compositions but I feel that this is the best way forward. What I want to know is can anyone reccommend a good expander that is multi-timbral and comes with good string voices (specifically violin, viola and cello). I did not understand most of what Russell said at first reading and will go back and re-read his reply later. If anyone can summarise how many simultaneous notes in how many voices can be got from the synths I will be grateful. John Richards