rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (10/18/87)
Here is the start of a message i was going to send before AmiExpo My father bought a nice program the other day for his Amiga. It was simple, cheap, did the job. It is called (ready?) GraphiCraft. Yup. It does not have a million nice features like DPaint. On the other hand, it was $15 and it works. Sure the output looks like hell but DPaint is awful too and it costs a lot more. Which led me to think: why isn't there more software like this? Why is all the software so complicated and expensive? You can't multitask Analyze with even 512K,which strikes me as ridiculous. I have not bought *anything* for my amiga since DPaint; that product was sufficiently disappointing, and sufficiently expensive, that i felt ripped-off enough for all time. My wife refused to countenance any money spent on another Amiga program- she used DPaint too until we realized we could not print. Now i see Leo's letter about the theory that all Amiga owners are thieves, and that is why software does not sell. I am so mad i cannot see straight. I will *not* buy garbage software, even if i think it will help the Amiga. A $300 home-management package is ridiculous. A $150 spread-sheet is ridiculous- especially the big-pig monolithic program we have been seeing- don't they know how to take advantage of the amiga's strengths? After AmiExpo I bought three programs. First was MicroFiche File, for $74 (show special). This program is fantastic. I can not say enough good things for it; i think of new uses daily. The license is terrific- you are asked not to use it on more than one machine at a time- i can bring my MFF disk into work, use it, take it home and use it on the 500. Good license! Second was HaiCalc. $39!!!! A fine spreadsheet, and guess what ... the PieChart is a separate program! As is BarChart. No Big Pig! PieChart comes up and looks for a copy of HaiCalc and then displays the window. You can bring up more than one window for one sheet. You can use different fonts. and so on. A real good deal! Finally, Money Mentor. Go and see it. $75, show special. I am using it and love it. it has all the feature of the $300 program save price. I think the Amiga is here. This software is priced right, it works, and it has a very solid 'feel' to it. AmiExpo was wonderful! And i had the same feeling as Perry- the Amiga is here to stay. Now if only i knew what to make of HyperCard and its impact on Amy. I just got a 500. Wonderful piece of work. Sure am glad to not have to use KickStart disks any more. That always struck me as a kludge. I like the keyboard and do not mind lack of detachability. The dealer tells me they cannot get enough to sell. BTW my first monitor had a weird problem. In the drag bar, in line with the blue stripes, there was a distortion such that the line looked shorter than all others, resulting in wavy 'click-to-front/click behind' boxes. It was weird; it followed windows around. I at first assumed it was the 500 but it turned out to be the monitor (a 1080). At AmiExpo i saw a 2002 with the same problem! Also Lattice 4.0 was for sale there. Live was there too- an amazing product. All in all a wonderful show. ron -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (10/19/87)
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) wrote: > AmiExpo was wonderful! And i had the same feeling as Perry- the >Amiga is here to stay. I also got that feeling, for the first time in over two years. There really was a lot of excitement in that NYC hotel for a few days. >Now if only i knew what to make of HyperCard and its impact on Amy. At AmiExpo I asked RJ Mical (Father of Inhibition) what -=he=- thought of HyperCard, since he has had some experience with it. He said he thought it was great, but didn't think it would have as large an impact as Apple thinks it will. He thought that for all its good points, end users (CEOs, secys, dentists, etc) would not want to get involved with it and do their own "programming" even though it's really easy to do...it's still programming. Anyway, that's one person's opinion; I'm sure I could find people who would declare him dead wrong. I have not seen HyperCard myself. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
king@dciem.UUCP (Stephen King) (10/20/87)
In article <605@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >other hand, it was $15 and it works. Sure the output looks like hell >but DPaint is awful too and it costs a lot more. Which led me to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am surprised by this statement. I think DPaint is GREAT! What are you comparing it to? >My wife refused to countenance any money spent on another Amiga >program- she used DPaint too until we realized we could not print. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Before getting a bargain on a Canon PJ-1080 color ink-jet printer, I used to make negative prints of DPaint pictures on my B/W Epson. They were no screaming hell, but they were hard copy. The Canon is a good unit, at a really reasonable price. The output is not fantastic, but what do you expect from a <$500 product? A Tektronix ink-jet printer would give wonderful results, but who can afford the multi kilobuck pricetag? >is ridiculous. A $150 spread-sheet is ridiculous- especially >the big-pig monolithic program we have been seeing- don't they know >how to take advantage of the amiga's strengths? Check out MaxiPlan. A well behaved spreadsheet which multitasks, uses RAM disc, runs in a pull-down screen, etc. etc. > > After AmiExpo > >I bought three programs. First was MicroFiche File, for $74 >(show special). This program is fantastic. I can not say enough >good things for it; i think of new uses daily. The license is Glad you are getting something you like, but I still think that there have been good programs for the Amiga for some time now. All one has to do is look. N'est-ce pas? ...sjk -- * Defence & Civil Institute * ...!utzoo!dciem!king * of Environmental Medicine * Stephen J King - Simulation & Training Group - (416) 635-2149
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (10/22/87)
In article <2490@dciem.UUCP> king@dciem.UUCP (Stephen King) writes: >In article <605@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >>other hand, it was $15 and it works. Sure the output looks like hell >>but DPaint is awful too and it costs a lot more. Which led me to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I am surprised by this statement. I think DPaint is GREAT! What are you >comparing it to? > >>My wife refused to countenance any money spent on another Amiga >>program- she used DPaint too until we realized we could not print. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Look, let's just say for the moment that i am joe typical amiga user. Or maybe what C= would like to be typical. I plunk my $90 down for DPaint, and what do i get? 1) A program that takes over 2 minutes to start up- because of the idiotic encoding 2) a program that basically eats my amiga-unless i get > 512K 3) a program that, admittedly, is a pretty fantastic paint program, BUT ... 4) i cannot make copies of those pictures! Or I do the best i can, do figures for an article, send the article out, and get lambasted by the reviewers for the quality of the pictures (which is really annoying). It is a great paint program. From almost every other standpoint it is a complete write-off. I do not much care if it is wonderful if i cannot (after a LOT of trying) get decent b/w output. Maybe it is partly C= fault, i do not know. I really had to wonder, though, if EA ever even tried to print on a 'just folks' printer. I could not believe that they could ship a product whose printed output looked so bad. Compare this to MacPaint (sorry!). you can still go to talks and read articles that have figures done under MacPaint in them PRINTED ON AN IMAGEWRITER; they look OK. >Before getting a bargain on a Canon PJ-1080 color ink-jet printer, Which i cannot afford ... >They were no screaming hell, but they were hard copy in my opinion, barely. Like i say, what is the point of the world's best paint program if you cannot print it? > >Check out MaxiPlan. A well behaved spreadsheet which multitasks, uses >RAM disc, runs in a pull-down screen, etc. etc. > Look, HaiCalc is $60. IT is not a power-user's spreadsheet, but it is plenty for me. My point was that i want less power-user software, and more HaiCalc-like software. Minimum for MaxiPlan is $150, or about 25% of the price of the 500. That price, i think, is nuts. > >Glad you are getting something you like, but I still think that there >have been good programs for the Amiga for some time now. All one has >to do is look. N'est-ce pas? ...sjk Well, i just do not agree. Pre-AmiExpo the only home-management system i could find was in the $200-$300 range. Ridiculous. No wonder no software sold. I should add that i am a victim of Lattice 3.03, which was money well spent only in that it gets me 4.0 for $75, but was almost a total loss otherwise. Oh, and, silly me, Amiga Lisp from MCC. Boy, was that dumb, i realized one day later, but the dealer refused to take it back. I cannot believe that MCC is still in business ... Anyway, the tone of my letter was meant to really say: NICE WORK C= I hope to heck you make it, cause i sure like the Amiga! BTW, MicroFiche Filer, HaiCalc, and Money Mentor are NOT copy protected. And, for the first time in ten years, using Money Mentor, my checkbook balances to the last penny. now that is a miracle. ron P.S. Forgot one thing. I gave some people the impression that HyperCard runs on the Amiga. Sorry. What i really meant was that i was wondering how the existence of HyperCard would affect Amiga sales. Don't know, but have this feeling it is another Jazz.People still really do not want to program, methinks. P.P.S. I like the 500 keyboard, the 500 manual, and really do not miss the detachable keyboard that much. Heck, the 500 weighs less than a 3277 keyboard ... -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (10/22/87)
In article <619@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes:
<I should add that i am a victim of Lattice 3.03,
<which was money well spent only in that it gets me 4.0 for $75, but
<was almost a total loss otherwise.
Yeah, 3.03 is about the level of most Unix C compilers, running on
hardware not designed to support an OS that makes that many trips to
all the wells. However, you blew it in not upgrading to 3.10 instead
of staying with 3.03 for the last year. True, it costs a little more
overall, but *I've* had 3.10 to use for the last year. If there's as
much improvment between 3.10 and 4.0 as there was between 3.03 and
3.10, I may quit asking for a real language on the Amiga.
Speaking of which:
<Oh, and, silly me, Amiga Lisp from
<MCC. Boy, was that dumb, i realized one day later, but the
<dealer refused to take it back. I cannot believe that MCC is still
<in business ...
MCC LISP is a true dog. Doesn't look like any LISP popular in the US.
They dropped the single most important feature from Cambridge LISP
when they dropped closure support. The compiler doesn't do to badly,
but they missed some sophmore-level tricks in the optimizer.
As for MCC, remember that they were in business long before there was
an Amiga, and will probably be in business after the Amiga is gone.
They sell that LISP for the ST, and I would have used it if the
support had been at the same level. They also were the first people
with a PIPE: and AUX: device. And there are people here who swear by
their CLI replacement (going to take a look at it one of these days).
I keep wishing they'd put there BCPL compiler on the market. Then I
could cuss at CPTRs in the Exec :-).
<mike
--
And then up spoke his own dear wife, Mike Meyer
Never heard to speak so free. mwm@berkeley.edu
"I'd rather a kiss from dead Matty's lips, ucbvax!mwm
Than you or your finery." mwm@ucbjade.BITNETkeithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (10/25/87)
In article <619@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >In article <2490@dciem.UUCP> king@dciem.UUCP (Stephen King) writes: >>In article <605@louie.udel.EDU> rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) writes: >>>other hand, it was $15 and it works. Sure the output looks like hell >>>but DPaint is awful too and it costs a lot more. Which led me to >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>I am surprised by this statement. I think DPaint is GREAT! What are you >>comparing it to? >> >>>My wife refused to countenance any money spent on another Amiga >>>program- she used DPaint too until we realized we could not print. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Actually, this is one issue to which I can agree. I bought the $199 Cannon inkjet, and the basic output via DPaint does suck. But it's not the printers fault, and I don't really think it was DPaint's fault, it's apparently the fact that C= felt that the way to handle unknown resolution printers was to scale bitmaps, and this tends to take forever and look like shit. The MacIntosh seems to get around this somehow, perhaps by avoiding the problem by making you buy an Apple approved printer of a known resolution and making sure all Apple approved printers have close enough resolution so that they don't have to scale the bitmaps. Obviously few of you out there have tried to use a 24 pin printer, as the @Q)*#&%)(* speed of the driver at such resolutions is appalling. If any of you had been using it in that manner we'd have heard more flaming. 20-30 minutes for a screen dump! Bah! I finally figured out how to fix the output when using the Canon, but it was not particularly straightforward or reasonable to expect a novice to figure out. Some packages out there actually bypass the driver to get more predictable output, as it reflects on the package itself if print quality is percieved to be poor (even if it IS possible to get good output, just novice users can't figure out how). Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd Contel Business Systems 213-323-8170
rminnich@udel.EDU (Ron Minnich) (10/27/87)
In article <1822@cadovax.UUCP> keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) writes: >to figure out. Some packages out there actually bypass the driver to >get more predictable output, as it reflects on the package itself if >print quality is percieved to be poor (even if it IS possible to get >good output, just novice users can't figure out how). How true. I blew people away with demos of DPaint initially; when they saw the printed output, they said: 'if you want to use our McDraw, you can ...'. Consider what you have to do: 1) Buy DPaint 2) Buy Marauder so that you can load it in reasonable time 3) learn how to write a printer driver 4) find out about PrtDrvGen. I predict that by step (2.5) most people will be quite unhappy. ron -- ron (rminnich@udel.edu)
harald@ccicpg.UUCP ( Harald Milne) (01/20/88)
Shoot, it's been 4 days since the AmiExpo in LA, and nobody has said
didly.
Allright, I'll kick it off, everybody jump in!
Although this show was a bit small by my standards, it was non the less
very exciting. CBM wasn't there, but I feel they knew they didn't have to be!
So what's new you ask?
Well, a lot!
I finally saw the Video Toaster from NewTek, and let me say here, words
just can't describe it. (It could if you talked Pro TV Studio).
A really remarkable product! (I should add a vapor product, since only
a prototype was shown). No promised dates.
While in vapor mode, a NewTek representive said that the VT operates
in RGB, not just NTSC! NewTek had a camera pointed into the crowd, and showed
the realtime video effects. All kinds of effects. It would be a fair to compare
this setup to a $100,000 electronic effects machine in TV studios!
Live! and Very Vived!(Mandela) was there.
Mandela is really strange, people would walk to the booth and stand in
in front of a camera, while watching a monitor, and stick out various bodily
appendages to activate sound effects. Pretty strange to watch this interaction.
Live! was there. But I was a little unhappy to find out that Live! will
not capture Interlaced HAM. I don't know if this a hardware restriction or
not.
Oh, wait, SuperGen was there too. It looks like a finely honed product,
it really looks like the ultimate in Amiga Genlocks. So is the Pro price.
Well that's all for video, at least for realtime video!
Graphics, ok.
Byte by Byte was showing some awesome animations (like the lower part
of a RoboCop strutting about) on a huge 37 inch direct view monitor.
Aegis was strutting her stuff too. I finally saw a slew of AH
(Allen Hastings) videos, like "Apocalypse Real Soon Now". Hot stuff. Mini
movies made on an Amiga.
Aegis was promoting their new game "Ports of Call" which is one of the
reasons I'm posting this at 3:00 in the morning. Or is that 4:00?
MicroIllusions was demoing Photon Paint, this is so hot, it's going to
redefine Amiga paint programs forever (at least for a while). A full HAM paint
program, with unbelievable snap perspectives, teardrops, etc. Ships in 2 weeks.
Music, ok.
Music-X was in high gear. Dr. T was there, but in a way hugely
ignored, not unlike the way Dr. T ignored the Amiga. Tuff.
Hardware.
Well, I was surprised a bit by the CSA booth. That 68030 board really
is a screamer. CSA was demoing Mandelbrot generations simulateneously with
thier 68020 and 68030, for comparision. Obviously, the 68030 screamed.
I didn't even bother to ask about the price. They also had a 800meg WORM.
I don't think I even touched the tip of iceberg.
I won't try to say that this is all there was, just some.
Who was there?
That was like reading "Who's Who" in the Amiga world.
Dale Luck
Leo Schwab
David Joiner
Allen Hastings
Rob Peck
Richard Sexton
John Foust
Harald Milne 8^)
The list just goes on and on. It was fun! I should have stuck around
for the up elevator!
Forgive me if I offended anyone, deleted anyone, or anything, I just
thought boingers had the right to know!
Come you guys, stop holding out!
Brought to you by, a CCI 6/32. Say Richard, are you still bummed out?
If you are really still bummed, I've got my raytraced asbestos on!
Works too! (at least in my mind!)
--
Work: Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI), Advanced Development Group (ADG)
Irvine, CA (RISCy business! Home of the CCI POWER 6/32)
UUCP: uunet!ccicpg!haraldlwall@devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) (01/21/88)
Did anyone go with the idea of comparing Desktop Publishing software? I wanted desperately to go but my wife said I couldn't, and she was right. I'm particularly interested in how Shakespeare compares to the others. You see, I've got this HP Paintjet on order... Larry Wall lwall@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (01/21/88)
In article <9508@ccicpg.UUCP> harald@ccicpg.UUCP ( Harald Milne) writes: > > > Brought to you by, a CCI 6/32. Say Richard, are you still bummed out? Uhh, no. Anti depressents. I bummed out ? -- "...and before too long I might, see those flashing red lights" richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, philabs!cadovax, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richard
spencer@eris (Randal m. Spencer [RmS]) (01/24/88)
Recently on *comp.sys.amiga* lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) wrote: ...Did anyone go with the idea of comparing Desktop Publishing software? ...I'm particularly interested in how Shakespeare compares to the others. ...You see, I've got this HP Paintjet on order... ... ...Larry Wall What is it about that darn'd HP, seems where ever I go these days people are asking me about getting a driver for it. I didn't write the driver I didn't make the printer, yet I am like the "Keeper of the Driver". Well, darn it. I saw it posted here, what happened to it? Anybody archive it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Randy Spencer P.O. Box 4542 Berkeley CA 94704 (415)222-7595 spencer@mica.berkeley.edu I N F I N I T Y BBS: (415)222-9416 ..ucbvax!mica!spencer s o f t w a r e AAA-WH1M -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
cna@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Na Choon Piaw) (10/17/89)
Don't forget AmiExpo. Santa Clara is on 20th - 22nd (This Friday to Sunday...). Anyone going to organize a USENET gathering? Or any other kind of gathering for that matter? I'll be hanging around there from 21st to 22nd... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Na Choon Piaw P.O Box, 4067, Berkeley, CA 94704-0067 cna@cory.berkeley.edu Disclaimer: I'm speaking only for myself! piaw@ocf.berkeley.edu "Still on honeymoon with his Amiga...." -------------------------------------------------------------------------
monsoor@csusac.csus.edu (Matt Monsoor) (10/18/89)
Because of the Major Earthquake in the Bay Area [Santa Clara is just north of the epicenter (sp?)]. Will there still be an AmiEXPO????? Or will it be scheduled for another date?? -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Matthew G. Monsoor | UUPC: {ucdavis|lll-crg}!csusac!monsoor | | (916) 278-6288 | Internet: monsoor@csusac.csus.edu | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
stan@teroach.UUCP (Stan Fisher) (10/18/89)
In article <18439@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> cna@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Na Choon Piaw) writes: >Don't forget AmiExpo. Santa Clara is on 20th - 22nd (This Friday to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Sunday...). Anyone going to organize a USENET gathering? Or any other kind >of gathering for that matter? Which, by the way, IS STILL ON. According to the folks at 1-800-32AMIGA, the quake didn't effect the San Jose/Santa Clara area enough to cause a problem for AmiEXPO. I hope the spirit of the show isn't too badly effected in light of the tragic earthquake. With the way the news portrayed the effects in the San Jose area last night (the 17th) I wasn't sure if AmiEXPO would be postponed/relocated/canceled. Stan Fisher - stan@teroach.phx.mcd.mot.com - asuvax!mcdphx!teroach!stan Motorola Microcomputer Division, Tempe, Arizona - Voice (602) 438-3228 Call our User Group BBS "M.E.C.C.A." running Atredes 1.1 @ (602) 893-0804