cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/03/89)
So I went out looking for a new videogame experience and came up with
a new Psygnosis game called "Beast". A couple of things struck me about
the game. First, it is indistinguishable from an arcade game in my opinion,
and two it actually has the nerve to use some of the custom hardware the
Amiga provides for games. That said, on with some of the basics.
Common Formats (representative game): TopView (Xevious), SideView (Menace),
TopView-3D (Zaxxon), SideView-3D (Renegade), 3D-TopView (I Robot),
3D-Internal (Hard Drivin), BackView (Sega Turbo),
FixedView (Centipede).
Game Format : Sideview, Hack-n-Slash type game. The player is an artificially
created beast with augmented speed, strength, ugliness etc.
Concept : Like a lot of games that are 'tendoesq this is a game whereby
the main character has to explore around and come up with things
to advance in the game. Unlike something like DungeonMaster it is
set in a arcade type environment (lots of things to run and punch
and kick at.)
Features : Really nice graphics (what else would you expect from Psygnosis)
and ok sound. The game play is acceptable, but sometimes a bit to
arbitrary in how quickly it kills you off.
NonFeatures : Little or no, "skip-past-this-boring-shit" features. When you
die you get a full 10 - 20sec shot of a graphic with some 'emotive'
music playing in the background. No amount of clicking, firing, or
keypresses will move you on to the startup screen again.
All in all I would reccomend this game, it is fun to play. And it comes with
a free T-Shirt (size large) so there.
Technical stuff now, if you just wanted the review skip to the next message :
Technical flaming below ...
The manual includes a section from the programmers, I can't quite figure
out what purpose it serves. There are three possibilities :
1) The programmers wished to brag about what they had accomplished.
2) Psygnosis wanted to get an antipiracy message out.
3) It has some useful information in it somewhere.
This section bothered me on several counts, not the least of which was the
programmers threatening to work exclusively on game cartridges if the
piracy problem didn't let up. That's great and it gives the forces of
truth and justice another opportunity to point out to pirates that sort
of damage they really do, even though they believe in their own mind that
they don't cause any harm. But what it fails to note is that if they spent
9 months working on all of these custom scrolling routines and such like
that made the gameplay so smooth, then how come they are going to trash
all of that work to go work on Nintendo cartridges?! I believe the answer
lies somewhere in the part of this section that reads [paraphrased]
"... we started college but couldn't cut it so we dropped out to write
games full time ..." It occured to me that these guys may have written
a bunch of whiz bang scrolling routines that are *hard coded* into the
stupid game. And that suggests that maybe they should have stayed in
college a couple of more years. Why not build a scrolling "system"
whether it is a compiled system or a runtime system that can be used
for *any* game. Then of your 9 months, some large fraction of them would
be reusable into any game you built? [Since I'll be in London later this
month I'll see if I can look these guys up and ask them.]
The last thing that truly bothered me about this manual was the stuff about
how there was 3.5 megabytes of data (and only 2 880K disks) and how these
guys were such hot shots, and they left the other 2Meg on my A1000 untouched
when they ran so they always had to re-read all their data when restarting
the game! What is so damn difficult in looking at the exec lists for memory
before you blow it away to see if there is anywhere to store this data of
yours? Anyway, if you are reading this and you are thinking about programming
a game, think about this :
Piracy is currently a fact of life. Decide ahead of time if you can make
money with only 2% of the market and then get to work. Secondly, the more
code you can reuse in games the more valuable the time is spent in developing
it. If you spend 6 months (~$30,000 in "programmer time") in writing a
damn good set of routines, and you use them in 5 games, you only have to
make back $6,000+ on each game to recoup your costs. Secondly, don't
worry about stomping the OS out of existence when you run, but before you
start you should ask it for as much information as possible so that you ca
can make good use of the available resources.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
"If I were driving a Macintosh, I'd have to stop before I could turn the wheel."kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (10/03/89)
In <125648@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes:
Chuck> This section bothered me on several counts, not the least of
Chuck> which was the programmers threatening to work exclusively on
Chuck> game cartridges if the piracy problem didn't let up.
Let 'em. Psygnosis are a bunch of college video geeks whose software
is kludgy as hell, stomps all over the OS, makes me wary of rebooting
without keeping my computer off for 30 seconds or more lest it jump
all over my bootdisk because it really reminds me of the sort of thing
pirates used to program for the C64, are extremely ego-bound
considering that every game they write is done from the ground up
without any shared libraries and can't seem to grasp the concept of
being nice to the OS, have absolutely horrible taste in music (I like
nauseating new-wave music sometimes too, but not constantly... this
also seems to be a problem with those who create Sonix scores), and
should have quit while they were ahead after doing Menace instead of
making seven or eight clones of it. I don't know about the other ones,
but Blood Money has a similar booklet (I don't recall what they said
about piracy because I probably tuned it out as per usual) and struck
me as being equally braindamaged.
And with their programming styles and turnaround time, I'd just love
to see them try to get official Nintendo standing..... there's a lot
more competition in that market, too, and their blazing graphics would
probably be quite outclassed since people have already had to learn
how to push the Nintendo to its hardware limits.
I also get annoyed at putting a nice new Menace disk in my drive and
having it say "not a DOS disk" and having to click two requesters
before I can even get the drive to shut off so I can reboot.... but
what can you do....
flame off
--
Robert Jude Kudla <kudla@pawl.rpi.edu> <kudla@acm.rpi.edu> <fw3s@RPITSMTS>
What noisy cats are we.jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu (10/03/89)
In article <125648@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: > The manual includes a section from the programmers, I can't quite figure > out what purpose it serves. There are three possibilities : > 1) The programmers wished to brag about what they had accomplished. > 2) Psygnosis wanted to get an antipiracy message out. > 3) It has some useful information in it somewhere. > > This section bothered me on several counts, not the least of which was the > programmers threatening to work exclusively on game cartridges if the > piracy problem didn't let up. This seems wholly ridiculous. I'm happy they should be upset about piracy, but why yell at someone who just BOUGHT the game? -- James A. Treworgy jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Jules Cisek) (10/03/89)
In article <1989Oct3.031541.21157@rpi.edu>, kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: > > Let 'em. Psygnosis are a bunch of college video geeks... ??? What about Roger Dean who does most of the artwork? In case you don't know, he's the artist famous for his Yes and Asia artwork. -- Fight | // Julius A. Cisek jac423,jules |Don't Like a| \X/ ->crunch<- SUNYA, NY USA @leah.albany.edu | Be a Brave | IB...M MIDI&Amy: I do think it's good... |Slave
kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (10/04/89)
In <2066@leah.Albany.Edu> jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Jules Cisek) writes: Jules> Xref: rpi rec.games.video:2306 comp.sys.amiga:15759 Jules> In article <1989Oct3.031541.21157@rpi.edu>, kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: > > Let 'em. Psygnosis are a bunch of college video geeks... Jules> ??? What about Roger Dean who does most of the artwork? In case you Jules> don't know, he's the artist famous for his Yes and Asia artwork. What game did he do the graphics for? If it was for Menace, it's a sad day indeed for Roger. I could see maybe the cover and inside poster of Blood Money, but none of Psygnosis' other stuff. (Warning: I'm a Yes fanatic.) -- Robert Jude Kudla <kudla@pawl.rpi.edu> <kudla@acm.rpi.edu> <fw3s@RPITSMTS> What noisy cats are we.
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/05/89)
A sad day for Roger Dean indeed. This man is one of the greatest commercial fantasy artists in the world, and he's hooked himself to a bunch of loser video-games. Every time I see a Psygnosis game with a Roger Dean cover, I get the same sick feeling I get when Jerry Pournelle ruins another good SF writer by collaborating with him. -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.hackercorp.com 'U` ``Back off dude! I'm a topologist!'' -- Andrew Molitor <amolitor@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
pete@i-core.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) (10/05/89)
>The last thing that truly bothered me about this manual was the stuff about >how there was 3.5 megabytes of data (and only 2 880K disks) This is pretty common in advertising for games. Rmmember Sodan's claims? Well, it comes close to those figures if you unpack all the graphics, sound, and data structures. Whoop de doop. Pack it all up and you've got 2 880K disks. >and how these guys were such hot shots, and they left the other 2Meg on >my A1000 untouched when they ran so they always had to re-read all their >data when restarting the game! What is so damn difficult in looking at the >exec lists for memory before you blow it away to see if there is anywhere to >store this data of yours? Anyway, if you are reading this and you are Are you kidding? A Euro game hacker look at an exec list? The game programmers in Europe wouldn't look at a Commodore guidelines manual, let alone follow one. -- (^\__/^) pete@i-core.uucp uunet!iconsys!caeco!i-core / . . \ <=== BEWARE! The Snugglesoft Bear! \ ~ / <=== Spawn of Satan and the downfall of Western Civilization! ( )( ) Pete Ashdown - Slack Monger Extraordinare - Amiga Evangelist
jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Jules Cisek) (10/05/89)
In article <1989Oct4.212248.10564@i-core.UUCP>, pete@i-core.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) writes: > Are you kidding? A Euro game hacker look at an exec list? The game > programmers in Europe wouldn't look at a Commodore guidelines manual, let > alone follow one. You're right, although it's not just the Europeans. Most game programmers use their own guidelines. But we've heard enough. It's not like anyone is forcing you to buy their software. Someone else might like it. -- Fight | // Julius A. Cisek jac423,jules |Don't Like a| \X/ ->crunch<- SUNYA, NY USA @leah.albany.edu | Be a Brave | IB...M MIDI&Amy: I do think it's good... |Slave
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/07/89)
In article <1989Oct4.212248.10564@i-core.UUCP> (Pete Ashdown) writes: >Are you kidding? A Euro game hacker look at an exec list? The game >programmers in Europe wouldn't look at a Commodore guidelines manual, let >alone follow one. Well for what it is worth, I'll be in London in a couple of weeks and if I can find them, I try to set up lunch or something so that we can chat about such things. I have the address of Psygnosis, but don't have the address for "Reflections" or whatever they call themselves. If anyone on this net knows where I can reach these guys by telephone, please let me know. Thanks, [The programmers for the game "The Shadow of the Beast", pbl by Psygnosis] --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "If I were driving a Macintosh, I'd have to stop before I could turn the wheel."
deva@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves) (10/11/89)
Has anyone had any problems with Beast hanging on them at certain points
of the game?
I just got this game, and although it looks *GREAT*, I am a bit peeved
to see it crash right after the "Disk 2 credits", or when you enter your
home. (in the tree)
It looks as though it is going to the limits of chip ram, and doesn't care
to check if it is sometimes going beyond those limits.
In one moment of desperation, I stripped my 1000 of every accessory --
hard drive, 2nd disk drive, etc..., (who said game playing wasn't fun!:-)
and guess what -- it worked!! -- ONCE... :-(
A couple of my friends tried it out on their machines -- one has a brand
new 500 -- he had the same problems I had. The other one had a stripped
1000 -- he said it worked fine for him. (huh?)
Anyway, it looks like we have a 33% success rate with this game so far.
_________________
/\_______________/\
/ / \ \
/ / David Alves \ \
/ / Deva Software \ \
/ / (408)997-1747 \ \
/ / deva@cup.portal.com \ \
\/_________________________\/
\_________________________/akg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Hughey) (10/13/89)
In article <22972@cup.portal.com> deva@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves) writes: > >Has anyone had any problems with Beast hanging on them at certain points >of the game? > >I just got this game, and although it looks *GREAT*, I am a bit peeved >to see it crash right after the "Disk 2 credits", or when you enter your >home. (in the tree) > I haven't had problems with it; I have a very early 1000 with 512K RAM, as basic of a system as you get (it does have an external drive). Admittedly, once it died when I first inserted the second disk, but that was the usual disk-seating problem that I have periodically, its being an extremely old drive and all. BTW, is there any easy way past the triceratops-like creature (the next big monster past the skull sled)? All I know to do is to go for the "power-punch" potion and then try to punch the triceratops repeatedly. Only problem is, I always seem to die, no matter how fast I punch or how many "lives" I have left. (I've had as many as 10, going into this.) Is this really all there is to it, or is there something easier? Mike H. P.S. First there was SMB for the Nintendo, then Zelda, now there's Beast for the Amiga. Ah, at last WE get to contribute needlessly to the traffic on this group with spoilers/spoiler requests. HAHAHAHAHA ... :-)
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/13/89)
In article <22972@cup.portal.com> (David Michael Alves) writes: >Has anyone had any problems with Beast hanging on them at certain points >of the game? No, I've used it on a 2000 and a 1000 and both seem to work fine. The game does "hang" when it is about to read in a giant opponent but generally after a moment or two Mr. Badguy appears and everything continues normally. (Well generally I die but that is a different problem all together.) So far it has never crashed. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "If I were driving a Macintosh, I'd have to stop before I could turn the wheel."
kai@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu (10/15/89)
I borrowed the game for a weekend recently, and during those two days my machine hung twice (once the screen went blank and the power transformer made that high-pitched whine our old VT100 terminals made after the supply was fried; the second time the Beast image half-appeared at the bottom of the stairs when entering the tree, then the screen went bright green, then black with intermittent short white horizontal lines). Both times I had been playing the game for an hour or more, and each time, turning the machine off and on was sufficient to return to normal. (My machine is pretty vanilla; 2000 with 2088 and 8-Up DIP w/4meg). I have had no other hardware problems before or since (the whining power supply episode took my battery-backed clock back to 1978, too). I decided not to buy the game after that experience, though it was a hard decision; it is an impressive game. -- Chris Huson Kuck & Associates, Inc. 1906 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL 61820 uiucuxc!kailand!chris chris@kai.com
chrisl@caen.engin.umich.edu (Chris Lang) (10/16/89)
In article <42600052@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu> kai@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu writes: >I borrowed the game for a weekend recently, and during those two days >my machine hung twice (once the screen went blank and the power transformer >made that high-pitched whine our old VT100 terminals made after the >supply was fried; the second time the Beast image half-appeared at the >bottom of the stairs when entering the tree, then the screen went bright >green, then black with intermittent short white horizontal lines). Both >times I had been playing the game for an hour or more, and each time, >turning the machine off and on was sufficient to return to normal. (My >machine is pretty vanilla; 2000 with 2088 and 8-Up DIP w/4meg). I have had the exact same problem with "Beast". I had thought it was perhaps due to a somewhat flakey drive and the copy-protection scheme, but maybe not. My machine is even more vanilla - a 1000 with external floppy and 1 Mb of RAM. (Plus a hard drive that was not connected at the time.) Does ANYONE have an idea why the game does this? I don't want to have to take it back just because of this; it really does look like a nice game. -Chris -- Chris Lang University of Michigan 4622 Bursley-Lewis, Ann Arbor, MI, 48109 chrisl@caen.engin.umich.edu -or- chrisl@cup.portal.com (313) 763-1832 work: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 900 Victors Way, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108 (313) 995-0300
deva@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves) (10/16/89)
>>>>Has anyone had any problems with Beast hanging on them at certain points >>>>of the game? >>>>---David Alves >>>I haven't had problems with it; I have a very early 1000 with 512K RAM, as >>>basic of a system as you get (it does have an external drive). Admittedly, >>>once it died when I first inserted the second disk, but that was the usual >>>disk-seating problem that I have periodically, its being an extremely old >>>drive and all. >>>---Mike Hughey >>No, I've used it on a 2000 and a 1000 and both seem to work fine. The game >>does "hang" when it is about to read in a giant opponent but generally >>after a moment or two Mr. Badguy appears and everything continues normally. >>(Well generally I die but that is a different problem all together.) So far >>it has never crashed. >>---Chuck McManis >I borrowed the game for a weekend recently, and during those two days >my machine hung twice (once the screen went blank and the power transformer >made that high-pitched whine our old VT100 terminals made after the >supply was fried; the second time the Beast image half-appeared at the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >bottom of the stairs when entering the tree, then the screen went bright ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >green, then black with intermittent short white horizontal lines). Both >times I had been playing the game for an hour or more, and each time, >turning the machine off and on was sufficient to return to normal. (My >machine is pretty vanilla; 2000 with 2088 and 8-Up DIP w/4meg). >---Chris Huson My experience has been the same as Chris Huson's. The beast image half- appears at the bottom of the stairs after entering the tree (home). I would like to think it is a problem with the disk and not my machine (all my ram checks out OK). So I'll be exchanging the disk for another in the hopes of having a game that doesn't crash like Chuck and Mike seem to have. Thanks for the input guys. _________________ /\_______________/\ / / \ \ / / David Alves \ \ / / Deva Software \ \ / / (408)997-1747 \ \ / / deva@cup.portal.com \ \ \/_________________________\/ \_________________________/
veenu@cbnewsj.ATT.COM (veenu.r.rashid) (10/26/89)
I recently purchased "Shadow of the Beast", and it doesn't seem to even *work* on my 68010 processor. It goes through the intro sequence fine, then when the opening screen comes on, it hangs.. and I mean *hang*. The only thing that'll reset it is a cold reboot! Has anyone else noticed the same problem? Any fix available? ruze