sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) (10/27/89)
I am doing some video titling work and I am having a few problems. First, my hardware/software configuration: 1 Meg A2000 CMI VI-500 Video Encoder Impulse's VideoPage Titler Zenith VCR, VHS, 4 head Avanti VHS Tape (okay, so I couldn't pass up a $2 tape!!) RCA playback VCR RCA Color Track 2000 TV. I plugged the CMI encoder into the video port. I used a dual banana plug cord to hook chroma and luma outputs of the encoder to my Commodore 2002 monitor. There are 2 video outs. One is a banana plug composite out, the other a BNC video out. I set the switch on the CMI and the VCR channel selector to channel 3. PROBLEM #1: I can ONLY get a video image from the BNC output. The banana plug composite out gives me nothing. Anyone know why??? PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, color, and size. For white letters on black background, the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. Even though my letters are 42 scan lines in height, some of them are totally illegible!! This I do not understand. Also, some of the colors are very washed out. I would expect this in a 4th or later generation copy, but not in my ORIGINAL!! Possible problem areas are: a) The low quality of VHS tape. b) A problem in my BNC cable. c) A general problem with VHS resolution. d) A problem with poor output from the CMI. e) Hardware mismatch between the Zenith and RCA VCR's. Can anyone out there who may have experienced similar problems putting video images to tape give me suggestions as to the most likely candidates. Some of these I can test. I can use a better tape. I can get a better BNC cable. I cannot afford a better encoder. I can temporarily borrow a friends S-VHS camcorder, record with it, and transfer to VHS. I cannot afford an ED-Beta or S-VHS recorder. I do notice that images come out okay. I believe that this is mostly due to the fact that the resolution of image features is not a crucial when viewing something like the Mandrill image. Text has sharp lines with high contrast. Any other ideas on putting my titling and animation onto VHS tape with the above equipment would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott Sutherland sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu
baer@qiclab.UUCP (Ken Baer) (10/30/89)
In article <735@orange9.qtp.ufl.edu> sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) writes: > >I am doing some video titling work and I am having a few problems. >First, my hardware/software configuration: > > 1 Meg A2000 > CMI VI-500 Video Encoder I use the CMI VI-500 all the time, works great! > Impulse's VideoPage Titler Ahhh, the competition :-). We make Animation:Titler. > PROBLEM #1: I can ONLY get a video image from the BNC output. > The banana plug composite out gives me nothing. > Anyone know why??? BNC output of what? The CMI VI has RCA out. > PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, > color, and size. For white letters on black background, > the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black > background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. Sounds like you need to adjust your text colors. When recording RGB graphics to composite video you have to stay within legal color values. On an RGB display you can set the Red, Green, and Blue values from 0 to 15. But in composite you can only go to 12. If r,g, or b is above 12, it will bleed. And, Red bleeds the worse of all (I guess that kind of makes sense :-). You might also want to invest in a high quality RCA video cable. I have a Signet cable. It has gold plugs, and had extra shielding. It's very nice, and seems to be an improvement over the cheap cables I was using. I got it for $30 at a local audio/video store. >Scott Sutherland >sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu Hope this helps. -- // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises. \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER "I want to be an ..... ARCH VILLIAN!!!" -- Petey Pate.
Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com (10/31/89)
Although your problem with color bleeding may be due to a combination
of factors, at the most basic level, you should be aware that:
- red is traditionally a 'difficult' color in video applications and
is the one most subject to bleed and distortion.
- the Amiga can output intensities which are too 'high' for video
applications. To give an example, on the palette menu of DPaint are
sliders which go up to 15. This outputs a signal above the range
of settings video equipment is accustomed to receiving. They look
great on your monitor, but they don't record well. Try lowering them
to a maximum of about 12 (actually the optimum intensities for each
color differs, to complicate matters, so experiment).
To solve some of these problems, do some test screens where you have red
lettering on a variety of colored backgrounds. Save them to tape, play
them back and make a note of which combinations help minimize the
problem. The interaction of colors can create quite a wide variety of
effects.
Adjust the intensities, and again make some test tape. Every hardware
configuration is subject to subtle differences.
With the amount of equipment you are interfacing, the problem may lie
elsewhere, but doing the above preliminary adjustments will narrow down
the search and perhaps solve part or all of your problem. Good luck.
\_
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`/)\_ __ //
__ _____________________________________________ `\\)\_ / '~//
/// Julie Petersen (LadyHawke@cup.portal.com) `\\//\\/|'//'
/// (Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com) (\/Yyyy/'
__ /// portal!cup.portal.com!LadyHawke /Yyyy/'
\\\ /// The things he said have never been disproved, //\\ LadyHawke
\\/// ______ only dismissed. _________________________ ///\\\
) (11/01/89)
>In article <735@orange9.qtp.ufl.edu> sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) writes: >> >>I am doing some video titling work and I am having a few problems. >> PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, >> color, and size. For white letters on black background, >> the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black >> background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. RED, is the most difficult colour for your home VCR to produce. The bleeding will also depend on the background colour too. To get good titles is a good bit of trial & error. You have to record a few and then view them to see how they look on playback. As the other response pointed out make sure you keep the RGB values below 12. All of the consumer formats suffer from the colour bleeding, with VHS being the most susceptable. Good cables will help a bit (a good bit if the current cables are poor). Make sure you use the fastest recording speed (SP). Remember, that most 2-head VHS VCR's are optimized for the slow speed and have narrow heads, and switching to SP doesn't really show any real improvement. Make sure the heads are clean, even the tiniest bit of grunge will degrade the signal. > Mark Kaye | | | Box 172, Munster Hamlet | 613-838-3580 | kaye@fscore.dec.com | Ontario, Canada K0A 3P0 | | DEC fscore::kaye or kaye @kao |
jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (11/04/89)
In article <735@orange9.qtp.ufl.edu> sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) writes: >I am doing some video titling work and I am having a few problems. >First, my hardware/software configuration: > CMI VI-500 Video Encoder > PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, > color, and size. For white letters on black background, > the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black > background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. >I cannot afford a better encoder. Solid red or solid blue is the hardest to encode properly to NTSC standards. I have an AmiGen and am disappointed in its output. After reading reviews of the various color encoders and genlocks, and after observing various ones first hand at Amiga shows, I have come to the following conclusion: If you need professional quality composite color output from the Amiga, then you have to spend around $800 or more on a good genlock. -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: JMS@F74.TYMNET.COM or jms@gemini.tymnet.com McDonnell Douglas FSCO | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-D21 | PDP-10 support: My car's license plate is "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | narrator.device: "I didn't say that, my Amiga did!"
hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov (Randy Hammock) (11/07/89)
>> PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, >> color, and size. For white letters on black background, >> the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black >> background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. As many people have stated, RED and BLUE are hard to reproduce under NTSC (Never Twice Same Color). Something else that must be concidered is the saturation or level of the color. At no time should you allow the any one color to exceed 12 on a scale of 0 to 15 when setting the color levels. Also, youe should not let the color level be set lower than 1. This kind of cuts down on the number of colors that can be displayed but keeps the color signals within the normal limits of the NTSC signal levels. I don't remember the values completely but, a color level should not exceed about 70% of the video level and should not be less than about 1%. It has been 15 years since I played in a studio so I don't rememr the values exactly. Randy Hammock AMIGA /// | randy@jato.jpl.nasa.gov Telos - Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA /// | hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov ** GALILEO launch October 1989 ** \\\/// |-------------------------------------------------------------------- \XX/ | "If I wanted your opinions, I'd have given them to you!" - Mock
yuan@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Yuan 'Hacker' Chang) (11/07/89)
In article <745@tardis.Tymnet.COM> jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) writes:
-
-If you need professional quality composite color output from the Amiga, then
-you have to spend around $800 or more on a good genlock.
Is the problem with the genlock, or is it really with NTSC itself?
Aren't there invalid shades in NTSC that the Amiga could easily generate?
So if you avoid using these "invalid shades," the output shouldn't bleed.
--
Yuan Chang "What can go wrong, did"
UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!yuan
ARPA: uhccux!yuan@nosc.MIL "Wouldn't you like to
INTERNET: yuan@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu be an _A_m_i_g_o_i_d too?!?"sjm@sun.acs.udel.edu (Steve Morris) (11/07/89)
In article <2096@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> hammock@mars.UUCP (Randy Hammock) writes: >>> PROBLEM #2: I created a variety of title pages, changing font style, >>> the result is okay. BUT, for red letters on a black >>> background, I get SEVERE bleeding of the colors. > >As many people have stated, RED and BLUE are hard to reproduce under NTSC >(Never Twice Same Color). Something else that must be concidered is the >saturation or level of the color. At no time should you allow the any one >color to exceed 12 on a scale of 0 to 15 when setting the color levels. [other stuff about colors and levels] I am not familiar with titler software packages, but the amiga will generate >Illegal< color signals for NTSC. Some of the packages may limit the palette selections to the allowed range but I wouldn't count on it. If you know someone in a video facility who can get you access to a waveform monitor and vectorscope, see if you can take your machine, or at least a tape of various color combinations, to check them out. As others have already said red is a difficult color to work with. In live production it is avoided in clothing. Unfortunately it seems that quite a few movies have red titles or credits which don't transfer to VHS very well. Just try reading them on a rented movie. If you really want to use red, try reducing the saturation, and also lighten up your black. There is a good chance that your black is also an illegal black. NTSC black is slightly above a "no video" signal level. -Steven
hamilton@intersil.uucp (Fred Hamilton) (11/09/89)
In article <2096@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>, hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov (Randy Hammock) writes: > > As many people have stated, RED and BLUE are hard to reproduce under NTSC > (Never Twice Same Color). Something else that must be concidered is the > saturation or level of the color. At no time should you allow the any one > color to exceed 12 on a scale of 0 to 15 when setting the color levels. > Also, youe should not let the color level be set lower than 1. This kind > of cuts down on the number of colors that can be displayed but keeps the > color signals within the normal limits of the NTSC signal levels. I don't > remember the values completely but, a color level should not exceed about > 70% of the video level and should not be less than about 1%. It has been > 15 years since I played in a studio so I don't rememr the values exactly. Actually, the best way to adjust the levels is to scale the signals once they're in analog form. This would allow you to keep the sixteen levels per color, but stay within the saturation limits of NTSC. > > Randy Hammock > > AMIGA /// | randy@jato.jpl.nasa.gov Telos - Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA > /// | hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov ** GALILEO launch October 1989 ** > \\\/// |-------------------------------------------------------------------- > \XX/ | "If I wanted your opinions, I'd have given them to you!" - Mock -- Fred Hamilton Any views, comments, or ideas expressed here Harris Semiconductor are entirely my own. Even good ones. Santa Clara, CA