C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) (11/03/89)
Several people have shown interest in buying MicroWay's Flicker-Fixer. Then someone else (Bob <....> of Pro-Graphics?) says the Flicker-Fixer fixes a non-problem, namely interlace flicker. I'd like to put the arguments for and against the FF into perspective here if I may. (and I may bunge it up anyway) FLICKER-FIXER: First of all, what do you get with the Flicker-Fixer? You get flicker-free 400 vertical-line displays. This could be 320x400 HAM, 320x400 normal (2-64 colors), or 640x400 hi-res (2-16 colors) OR any of those with your favorite overscan resolution thrown in. Now, the 16 colors in hi-res can be ANY of the Amiga's 4096 colors; for example a grey-scale. This would be good for people who need flicker-free multi-color CAD displays or a 16-color graphics terminal (color X11?) or for desktop publishing. Obviously, flicker is a real feature when you're talking about video applications, but there are times when one may need flicker-free 16-color hi-res. MicroWay has released a modification for the FF to allow the use of a genlock while the FF is still plugged in (I assume this mod. just turns interlace back on). To use the FF, you pay something like $450-599 for the actual board and then you need a multi-sync monitor which costs maybe $500+ (not sure of price). ECS: On the other hand, with ECS you can have a Productivity Mode that gives a screen res. of 640x480 (note: not 640x400!) like that of a Mac II, but you are limited to 4 colors (2-bitplanes) out of a palette of 64 colors. This is great for a professional looking Workbench, but it may not be adequate for hi-res CAD, DTP, or other multi-color work. I would be interested if anyone knows exactly which 64 colors (RGB values) the user can pick from to make the 4 color screen. One final note: I read in Amiga Sentry that the ECS also supports a 1008x800 greyscale display. I think that this is an interlaced display (i.e. flicker). The ECS also has many other special attributes that will make it a must-have for video work. To use the ECS you need to purchase it when it finally gets here ($ ?) and you need a multi-sync or perhaps a Commodore bi-sync (less expensive but non- existant right now). QUESTIONS: Does the flicker-fixer work with 1008x800 greyscale displays with the current chips and a custom driver/monitor? I thought that you could open a 1008x800 window with some custom drivers for a Viking monitor with the current chip set. Is this true? I hope I have given factual info, and maybe someone with ECS knowledge and/or knowledge of the 1008x800 resolution could answer the questions I have. # Baird McIntosh "Oh it doesn't seem like this Blue Sky's here for me..." # # INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet #
new@udel.edu (Darren New) (11/07/89)
What happens if you are using the "productivity mode" of the ECS and you drag down the screen to reveal some other screen on the top half of the display? -- Darren
ms0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Gordon Shapiro) (11/08/89)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.amiga: 6-Nov-89 Re: All this > Flicker-Fixer/.. Darren New@udel.edu (165) > What happens if you are using the "productivity mode" of the ECS > and you drag down the screen to reveal some other screen on the > top half of the display? -- Darren I'd speculate that would happen is analgous to what happens when you drag down a 640 x 200 screen when there's a 640 x 400 screen behind.... the entire view goes into FLICKER_MODE, but the PRoductivity screen would be refreshed normally (not every other scan cycle, or whatever you call it.)
pselver@ssi3b1.zone1.com (Peter Selverstone) (11/09/89)
In article <3241@lab.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: >Several people have shown interest in buying MicroWay's Flicker-Fixer. Then >someone else (Bob <....> of Pro-Graphics?) says the Flicker-Fixer fixes a >non-problem, namely interlace flicker. I'd like to put the arguments for and >against the FF into perspective here if I may. (and I may bunge it up anyway) I appreciate the effort. There are a number of areas where there is confusion. I apologise for the length of this (and other) postings on the subject, but the pre-announcement of the non-interlace capability of the ECS has led to inordinate confusion. This has been going on for two years now and I'm looking forward to the release of 1.4 and the enhanced Denise so that people will be able to see the difference for themselves. >FLICKER-FIXER: >First of all, what do you get with the Flicker-Fixer? You get flicker-free >400 vertical-line displays. This could be 320x400 HAM, 320x400 normal (2-64 >colors), or 640x400 hi-res (2-16 colors) OR any of those with your favorite >overscan resolution thrown in. Now, the 16 colors in hi-res can be ANY of the >Amiga's 4096 colors; for example a grey-scale. This would be good for >people who need flicker-free multi-color CAD displays or a 16-color graphics >terminal (color X11?) or for desktop publishing. The important point is that flicker fixer is compatible all the display modes of the Amiga, is transparent to the system and works with all software. It displays overscan to 704 by 470. It improves the appearance of all Amiga displays by eliminating the visible scan lines of non-interlace modes and de-interlacing the interlaced modes. >Obviously, flicker is a >real feature when you're talking about video applications, but there are >times when one may need flicker-free 16-color hi-res. MicroWay has released >a modification for the FF to allow the use of a genlock while the FF is still >plugged in (I assume this mod. just turns interlace back on). Flicker fixer never turns interlace on or off. It operates in parallel and simultaneously with the existing display and has a separate output connector. Using an inexpensive composite adapter like the A520, you can have an NTSC composite, interlaced signal at the same time as a high quality non-interlace display. The problem with genlocks has been that while in genlock mode, the sync signals upon which flicker fixer depends are modified. There is no problem using an external genlock on a machine with a ff in the video slot, but the ff display will be messed up. The compatibility option is an inexpensive piggyback board which allows simultaneous non-interlace display with some external genlocks. >To use the FF, you pay something like $450-599 for the actual board and then >you need a multi-sync monitor which costs maybe $500+ (not sure of price). > >ECS: >On the other hand, with ECS you can have a Productivity Mode that gives a >screen res. of 640x480 (note: not 640x400!) like that of a Mac II, but you >are limited to 4 colors (2-bitplanes) out of a palette of 64 colors. The ECS operates more or less like other Amiga modes with respect to overscan. The 640x480 specification for the productivity mode simply reflects improved support for overscan in 1.4. Flicker fixer specifies 470 pixels vertical resolution because that is the practical limit of the wb screen under 1.2/1.3. Most users already set their wb screen size to about 700 x 470 using morerows and many well behaved applications (propage, for example) open their screens to that size. Flicker fixer supports screens to 704 horizontal by whatever the system allows vertical (in NTSC). The existing flicker fixer will automatically work with 640x480 under 1.4. Note that productivity mode will require a multisync monitor. A significant drawback of productivity mode will be chip memory contention. When using a 4 color productivity screen, System performance will be affected in the same way that 16 color hires screens affect the current display. To obtain performance similar to the current workbench, only 2 colors may be used in productivity mode. I have outlined other differences in an earlier posting, <1989Nov3.032037.24321@ssi3b1.zone1.com>. >This >is great for a professional looking Workbench, but it may not be adequate for >hi-res CAD, DTP, or other multi-color work. I would be interested if anyone >knows exactly which 64 colors (RGB values) the user can pick from to make the >4 color screen. Each of R, G and B may take the values 0,5,10,15. > One final note: I read in Amiga Sentry that the ECS also >supports a 1008x800 greyscale display. I think that this is an interlaced >display (i.e. flicker). This has nothing to do with ECS. This resolution is not possible with ECS. You have confused the A2024/Hedley/Moniterm with ECS. >The ECS also has many other special attributes that >will make it a must-have for video work. There is no problem using the new Agnus and Denise in a 2000/2500 with a flicker fixer installed. All compatible modes are handled fine. Any incompatible modes are available at the normal RGB connector. >To use the ECS you need to purchase it when it finally gets here ($ ?) and >you need a multi-sync or perhaps a Commodore bi-sync (less expensive but non- >existant right now). > >QUESTIONS: >Does the flicker-fixer work with 1008x800 greyscale displays with the current >chips and a custom driver/monitor? I thought that you could open a 1008x800 >window with some custom drivers for a Viking monitor with the current chip >set. Is this true? The A2024 and the Moniterm monitors have their own scan conversion electronics and do not require ECS. They are 2 bitplane monochrome monitors. The 1008 x 800 resolution is obtained by sending successive portions of the image through the Amiga display system. The chunks are reassembled by the special electronics. You are supposed to be able to choose either 10Hz or 15Hz rates for complete frame update. The slower rate produces less chip memory contention. In the case of the A2024, the circuits are in the monitor itself. The moniterm has functionally equivalent circuits implemented as a video slot card. A "jumpstart" disk exists which is supposed to allow these products to be used with 1.3. Support is supposed to be integrated into 1.4. I believe the A2024 has not been released, the status of the Moniterm product is unclear. This display scheme was developed before the ECS was designed. Most of this information was released at the DevCon before last. It was repeated at the last DevCon and I expect we will hear still more at the next DevCon. The effect of the premature announcement has been to ensure that no other high quality monochrome displays would be developed for the Amiga. >I hope I have given factual info, and maybe someone with ECS knowledge >and/or knowledge of the 1008x800 resolution could answer the questions I have. I hope I've helped clarify things. ># Baird McIntosh "Oh it doesn't seem like this Blue Sky's here for me..." # ># INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet # -- Peter Selverstone ...{mit-eddie,pyramid,datacube}!mirror!ssi3b1!pselver Spy Pond Systems pselver@ssi3b1.zone1.com Arlington, MA BIX:pselverstone PLINK:pselverst CIS:72527,2652