weissman@decwrl.dec.com (10/31/89)
I want to buy a computer to use with my MIDI keyboard. I have two purposes in mind: sequencing, and making printed scores. I desperately want to buy an Amiga, since I think it's the best hardware out there. There seem to be several good sequencers available. What worries me is the lack of notation software. As near as I can tell, the only notation software available is Dr. T's Copyist. I played with it some at the dealer's, and came away horrified. The user interface seems horridly baroque. You may be able to make beautiful looking scores with it, but it seems like it would be far too much work. What I really want is a program that will let me enter notes from MIDI (either directly or by importing from a sequencer), and that will also let me *easily* enter notes using the mouse/keyboard. It should take care of the horizontal placement of notes and symbols by itself, and do a reasonable job. (The last requirement eliminates DMCS.) I should be able to tweak the placement of things somewhat (since the computer isn't always going to get it right), but I don't think I need the extreme amount of control that Copyist gives. This isn't a pipe dream. I've used Professional Composer for the Mac, and it does all this. It's far from perfect, but it's good enough for me. The thing is, though, that I don't want a Mac. I want an Amiga. Can someone please convince me that there is Amiga software to do what I want? Either tell me why the Copyist isn't so bad, or inform me of some software that I don't know about. Thanks, Terry Weissman weissman@wsl.dec.com P.S. I hear vague rumors that Passport Systems will be porting their Encore package to the Amiga. Is this true? Any idea when? Is Encore any good? Thanks...
davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) (10/31/89)
In article <8910301728.AA27683@gilroy.pa.dec.com> Terry Weissman (weissman@wsl.dec.com) writes: >I want to buy a computer to use with my MIDI keyboard. I have two >purposes in mind: sequencing, and making printed scores... >Can someone please convince me that there is Amiga software to do what >I want? There most certainly is! A company called Blue Ribbon Bakery, here in Atlanta, is just about to release their new program called "Bars and Pipes." They gave a demo at our October user group meeting, earlier this month, and blew us all away (they wore bakers' hats and passed out cookies too). This program does everything! The company consists of a person who's very much an Amiga programmer (he wrote another commercial program), and a person who's very musical, who made sure that musicians would be happy with this program. See the review and ad in the November AmigaWorld, pages 118-9. David Carter davidc@pyr.gatech.edu
consp13@bingsune.cc.binghamton.edu (Marcus Cannava) (10/31/89)
In article <8910301728.AA27683@gilroy.pa.dec.com>, weissman@decwrl.dec.com writes: > > I want to buy a computer to use with my MIDI keyboard. I have two > purposes in mind: sequencing, and making printed scores. > > I desperately want to buy an Amiga, since I think it's the best > hardware out there. There seem to be several good sequencers > available. What worries me is the lack of notation software. > > As near as I can tell, the only notation software available is Dr. T's > Copyist. I played with it some at the dealer's, and came away > horrified. The user interface seems horridly baroque. You may be > able to make beautiful looking scores with it, but it seems like it > would be far too much work. I, too, have need to produce professional-looking scores from MIDI input, and I can tell you to take another look at Dr. T's copyist professional, because it really has been the ultimate solution for me.. You don't have to use Dr. T's copyist exclusively for the note entry. If you also buy Dr. T's MRS (MIDI Recording Studio, $49, a scaled-down version of KCS), it will read in anything played on the MIDI keyboard, and then you can port the information to Copyist Professional, and print it from there. The results, I've found, are incredible. Give it a try: $150 for Copyist Pro, and $49 for MRS. You'll be very happy. I am. \marc
weissman@gnome9.pa.dec.com (Terry Weissman) (10/31/89)
In article <9496@pyr.gatech.EDU>, davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) writes: > There most certainly is! A company called Blue Ribbon Bakery, here in > Atlanta, is just about to release their new program called "Bars and Pipes." > ... > See the review and ad in the November AmigaWorld, pages 118-9. Thanks for the tip! I just dashed out and bought the November AmigaWorld and read the review and ad. It looks like a wonderful sequencer, with lots of innovative features and ideas that I haven't seen before. However, it doesn't seem to have too much in the way of making printed scores. I called them and they confirmed this; there is some ability to view your stuff in standard music notation form, but no real printing capability. They claimed, though, that their package made a better front-end to the Copyist than other sequencers, since their internal model is more musical and thus they save more useful information out to the standard Midi files. Who knows; it may even be true... Anyway, they're sending me brochures with lots more information; I'll try to remember to give a summary when I get it. I also have pricing and availability information: - Starts shipping in three weeks (I never know whether to believe this kind of cliam). - Price is $299; there will be a 30-day introductory price of $235. - They say that in the material that they'll be sending will be a coupon good for a free demo version. (The demo won't be able to load or save files.) For more info, you can contact them at: Blue Ribbon Bakery 1248 Clairmont Road, Suite 3D Atlanta, Georgia 30030 (404) 377-1514 If you've actually seen a demo of Bars&Pipes, I'd love to hear what kind of abilities you saw that related to the printing of musical scores. - Terry Weissman weissman@wsl.dec.com
riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) (10/31/89)
In article <9496@pyr.gatech.EDU> davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (David Carter) writes: >There most certainly is! A company called Blue Ribbon Bakery, here in Atlanta, >is just about to release their new program called "Bars and Pipes." >[...] The company consists of a person who's very much an Amiga >programmer (he wrote another commercial program), and a person who's very >musical, who made sure that musicians would be happy with this program. I believe the "Amiga programmer" in question is Todor Fay, who wrote Soundscape for Mimetics. I though Soundscape had a lot of potential, but never really lived up to it. Bars and Pipes might be good, or it might not, but I intend to approach it with a certain amount of caution (even more than usual). If the "musical person" did her job right, then it could be a really nice program, but Todor by himself doesn't seem to be too great on user interface design or quality control. -Dan Riley (riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) -Wilson Lab, Cornell U.
davidc@pyr.gatech.EDU (DAVID CARTER) (10/31/89)
In article <9180@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) writes: >I believe the "Amiga programmer" in question is Todor Fay, who wrote >Soundscape for Mimetics. I purposely did not mention Todor or Soundscape for fear that it might cause some bias. So that I am not putting words in his mouth, let me say that it was my impression that even he was not pleased with how Soundscape turned out. When talking to people, he repeatedly asked them not to talk about "Sound******". >If the "musical person" did her job right, then it could be a really nice >program Melissa Gray (the "musical person") did. And I think Todor has become much better at user interfaces too. In any case, you'll have the opportunity to try the demo version first before you buy. After the demo, several people (who are into music and own or have used various other music programs) wanted to place their orders on the spot. A comment heard from people sitting next to me in middle of the auditorium -- "this blows Dr. T's away." David Carter davidc@pyr.gatech.edu
lamb@thumper.bellcore.com (John W. Lamb) (11/01/89)
In article <8910301728.AA27683@gilroy.pa.dec.com>, weissman@decwrl.dec.com writes: > As near as I can tell, the only notation software available is Dr. T's > Copyist. I played with it some at the dealer's, and came away > horrified. The user interface seems horridly baroque. You may be > able to make beautiful looking scores with it, but it seems like it > would be far too much work. > > What I really want is a program that will let me enter notes from MIDI > (either directly or by importing from a sequencer), and that will also > let me *easily* enter notes using the mouse/keyboard. It should take > care of the horizontal placement of notes and symbols by itself, and > do a reasonable job. (The last requirement eliminates DMCS.) I > should be able to tweak the placement of things somewhat (since the > computer isn't always going to get it right), but I don't think I need > the extreme amount of control that Copyist gives. If you are willing to buy both DMCS and The Copyist, you can enter the score in DMCS, import it into The Copyist, tweak as needed and then print with good results. Since I often arrange things at the (computer) keyboard, I can use DMCS to play the music until I am satisfied with it and then use The Copyist to get a nice printout. Actually, the interface in The Copyist is not all that bad once you have memorized the keyboard equivalents for the commands you use most often. I don't have a MIDI compatible instrument, so I can't comment on entering notes that way. No matter how you do it, producing good looking sheet music is a lot of work. After using both programs separately and together many times, it still takes me 1 or 2 hours per page to get something I'm happy with.
bchivers@smiley.uucp (Brent Chivers) (11/09/89)
In article <1766@thumper.bellcore.com> lamb@thumper.bellcore.com (John W. Lamb) writes: >If you are willing to buy both DMCS and The Copyist, you can enter >the score in DMCS, import it into The Copyist, tweak as needed and >then print with good results. > >I don't have a MIDI compatible instrument, so I can't comment >on entering notes that way. Using a MIDI keyboard with DMCS is an adequate, but not good, way to enter music. I haven't found anything better yet. It is far faster than using the mouse. The main headache is that DMCS's concept of keypress duration is non linear. And adding ties to notes is a nuisance. There should be some command (with keyboard equiv) to add ties backwards from the active (last-entered) note. This would be less of a problem if DMCS could count time past the end of a measure -- to continue and automatically tie the notes, instead of making you enter 2 (or more) separate notes. And I find that DMCS tends to crash more than one desires from a working tool, especially if you're going fast and the score is large. On the other hand, I've tried using several MIDI sequencers that can save SMUS files, but their quantize functions have all done an abysmal job of turning what I played into what I want to see. You may say that the problem is my style of playing, but I have reason to believe that I am a competent musician, so if the software can't understand me I've got no use for it. -----------------------+----------------------------------- Brent Chivers | bchivers%mwunix@gateway.mitre.org W154-Z646 |
ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (11/13/89)
In article <1766@thumper.bellcore.com> lamb@thumper.bellcore.com (John W. Lamb) writes: > >If you are willing to buy both DMCS and The Copyist, you can enter >the score in DMCS, import it into The Copyist, tweak as needed and > >No matter how you do it, producing good looking sheet music is a >lot of work. After using both programs separately and together >many times, it still takes me 1 or 2 hours per page to get >something I'm happy with. I have just begun reading the AMiga newsgroup. I have an ATARI 1040ST .. am considering the Amiga 3000 or the Atari TTx Music: I use NOTATOR for the Atari. While The Copyist is also available for the ATARI, i can't see spending 1-2 hours per page. I did close to 300 pages one week for the Pacific Northwest ballet. Notation and midi-event data are fully integrated. No file conversion or program switching is necessary. I am reading this newsgroup to find out if anything like NOTATOR even exists for the AMiga... as i am growing very interested in the open architecture of the Amiga line and may in fact leave the ATARI world. -kevin ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) (11/13/89)
In article <4414@blake.acs.washington.edu> ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: :In article <1766@thumper.bellcore.com> lamb@thumper.bellcore.com (John W. Lamb) writes: :> :>If you are willing to buy both DMCS and The Copyist, you can enter :>the score in DMCS, import it into The Copyist, tweak as needed and :> :>No matter how you do it, producing good looking sheet music is a :>lot of work. After using both programs separately and together :>many times, it still takes me 1 or 2 hours per page to get :>something I'm happy with. : :I have just begun reading the AMiga newsgroup. :I have an ATARI 1040ST .. am considering the Amiga 3000 or the Atari TTx : :Music: I use NOTATOR for the Atari. While The Copyist is also :available for the ATARI, i can't see spending 1-2 hours per page. :I did close to 300 pages one week for the Pacific Northwest ballet. :Notation and midi-event data are fully integrated. No file conversion :or program switching is necessary. : :I am reading this newsgroup to find out if anything like NOTATOR :even exists for the AMiga... as i am growing very interested in the :open architecture of the Amiga line and may in fact leave the ATARI world. Unfortunately there is nothing close to the power of Notator for the Amiga. It really is a pitty because the Amiga could probably blow the Atari version from the water. Still, no one has really maxed the Amiga out in terms of midi software or notation software. Notator is a remarkable feet of software engineering on an average to above average piece of hardware. I do wish the Amiga software developers would not rely so heavily on the Amiga's hardware magic and instead (in addition to) push their software creativity to the limits, as was done with Notator. I would give anything to see C-Lab do Notator on the Amiga. Sigh, What a dream. (To those Amiga users who have never seen Notator by C-LAB, I HIGHLY recommend you run down to the nearest Music dealer who knows the Atari and Notator and watch it run. You will be Amazed. I wish some Amiga music-software developers would look at it and get inspired!) :-kevin :ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu Joel Swan