C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) (11/17/89)
How many old C64 owners/users are there out there? I persuaded my parents to buy one over the course of years...first Christmas, we got the computer...a few months later we got a Datasette (cassette tape)...second Christmas we got a disk drive (1541, slow as he**)...few months later I bought a Fast Load cartridge from Epyx (sped that 1541 up real good at the time)...third Christmas we got a printer... [Funny, they agreed to get my A2000 system as an educational expense. :-) ] Anyway, I 'obtained' a *lot* of games for the C64 (that's mostly what I used it for) and I was really struck by the incredible quality in the theme music on those games. The programmers really seemed to put some time into pushing the C64's SID (sound chip) to its limits. I particularly remember the games Gyruss (Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D minor), Trolls and Tribulations (had assorted Bach, Mozart, etc), Rambo (cool music, non-classical), Bump-N-Jump (don't know what it's called, but it's classical), and many others. I also used Compute's SIDPlayer/Editor program (actually bought it!) and I like alot of the songs done on the C64. Particulary nice is the C64 version of Bach's Two-Part Invention #13 --- this was the theme music for the C64 commercials of the early 1980s...anyway, I do not 'obtain' games for the Amiga (improved sense of morals/ethics) so I do not know if anyone has managed to create similar sounding stuff in Amiga music. The C64 had a certain sound to it that is hard to duplicate exactly. For one thing, most Amiga music uses digitized drums and instruments which were not available on the C64. Still, the C64 was/is a gem of a music machine in its own simple-computer-music way. Recently while I was home, I discovered that the SID in my C64 has gone bad and not all of the 3 voices play correctly. *Sigh* So, I just got a little sentimental about the whole thing and wondered if anyone had similar opinions of C64 music and C64 game music? Also, does anyone know of games for the Amiga that have a more simplistic music to them---preferably sounding like the C64 game music. You know, a SID chip emulator on the Amiga that would play any song arranged for Compute's SIDPlayer would be incredibly cool! Dreams... reminiscing to the glory days of 8-bits, # Baird McIntosh "...Can you hear me running; can you hear me calling you?" # # INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet #
prem@geomag.fsu.edu (Prem Subrahmanyam) (11/17/89)
In article <4295@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: >of C64 music and C64 game music? Also, does anyone know of games for the >Amiga that have a more simplistic music to them---preferably sounding like the >C64 game music. You know, a SID chip emulator on the Amiga that would play >any song arranged for Compute's SIDPlayer would be incredibly cool! Dreams... Geez, wouldn't it be nice if they made CD's that sounded like tapes? (with all the hiss and fuzz and stuff). That's about what you seem to be asking. The SID was what was done with music on personal computers until something like what was put in the Amiga came out. I personally HATED the sound of the SID....almost sounded like an electronic calculator trying to expand it's musical repertoire or something like that. I was elated when I heard what they were doing with the Amiga (pre-release hype). I had always wanted something that sounded _REAL_ instead of like a SID (FAKE). Of course, when I actually heard the Amiga going at it, I was absolutely thrilled--finally, something that sounded like music. Recently, I arranged my own version of "Chariots of Fire" in Sonix....with the Amiga, I could create a nifty cool sounding base line, add a really nice electronic piano sound, and intersperse digitized trumpets between the piano.....all I wish is that I had one more voice so that I could add a drum line....of course if I had a MIDI drum machine, then I could cook....but, that's truly dreaming while in college. I guess the extra voices (expand them to 8, why don't you, C<) could go on my 3000 wish list. Please, though, no "Simply Isn't Doing it" chips or emulators...it's like 1,000,000 steps backwards. Yes, do all the songs, but do them with really killer sounds instead of the calculator sound of the SID. ---Prem Subrahmanyam p.s. Don't you guys wish that the Amiga had a voice emulator that sounded like a Speak&Spell :->
northrup@wpi.wpi.edu (Jim Northrup) (11/18/89)
In article <4295@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) >How many old C64 owners/users are there out there? I persuaded my parents to >sentimental about the whole thing and wondered if anyone had similar opinions My friends and I used to play BallBlazer on my old C64 (got rid of it shortly before buying my Amiga) --- we'd play for a few hours, and then spend the next several hours humming the theme music, often without realizing it. My only similar Amiga experience has been with Blood Money. That's a lot harder to hum though. :-)
C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) (11/20/89)
In article <whatever it was>, c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (me, myself, I) said: > > [ stuff about how I liked a lot of old C64 music done with the SID Editor > and some of the theme music that was put into C64 games.] Then, in article <374@geomag.fsu.edu>, prem@geomag.fsu.edu (Prem Subrahmanyam) writes: >Geez, wouldn't it be nice if they made CD's that sounded like tapes? (with >all the hiss and fuzz and stuff). That's about what you seem to be asking. You obviously have no respect for the past! :-) >The SID was what was done with music on personal computers until something >like what was put in the Amiga came out. I personally HATED the sound of >the SID....almost sounded like an electronic calculator trying to expand >it's musical repertoire or something like that. I was elated when I heard >what they were doing with the Amiga (pre-release hype). I had always wanted >something that sounded _REAL_ instead of like a SID (FAKE). Of course, when I'm sorry you don't appreciate the sounds of the C64. However, I must say that my original post was not meant to get negative feedback. It's fine if you *hated* the C64's music/sound features; I am really only interested in the opinions of people who *liked* the C64's sound and music. Obviously the fact that you *don't* like that old sound has no bearing on my opinion (Gee, now that you mention it, those C64 songs really are poop! :-) and your post has been of no help to me. This is not a flame, but your post seemed to be. >Please, though, no "Simply Isn't Doing it" chips or emulators...it's like >1,000,000 steps backwards. Yes, do all the songs, but do them with really >killer sounds instead of the calculator sound of the SID. >---Prem Subrahmanyam Oh, you're too kind...maybe you mean it would be about 100^100000000 steps backwards. Jeesh, hyperbole at it's worst. I actually got a response from *Harry Bratt* who was a co-author of Compute's SID Editor/Player programs. He said that he and Craig Chamberlain had considered doing an Amiga sound-card of some kind, but they wanted to make it something special and they just didn't have the time to do it. The sad truth is that Sonix scores get really old unless you have a source of new and exciting digitally sampled instruments or a digitizer yourself. But opinions do vary; I was really looking for a more positive response (which is all I have gotten in the few mail replies I have received). # Baird McIntosh "...Can you hear me running; can you hear me calling you?" # # INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet #
colyer@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (11/20/89)
I personally liked alot of the old C64-SID music. The thing is at one time I actually considered writing a SID Player to SMUS format converter. However it never materialized... Oh Well... As to a source of new sounds one might try a program called Synthia by The Other Guys... I've never actually used it but it's supposed to be pretty good. -- #include <standard.disclaimers> #define JAMES_COLYER COLYER@silver.bacs.indiana.edu
piaw@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Na Choon Piaw) (11/20/89)
In article <4468@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: >The sad truth is that Sonix scores get really old unless you have a source of >new and exciting digitally sampled instruments or a digitizer yourself. But >opinions do vary; I was really looking for a more positive response (which is >all I have gotten in the few mail replies I have received). Well, I've got a digitizer (AMAS --- anyone remember my posting requesting for help? No one answered :-(), and I've done some sounds in it.. (Including a 4 minute song broken up into 7 files) Unfortunately, they're all too big (800K/file for about 50 seconds of stereo sound digitized at 12kHz), and I don't think there are enough people with that much RAM so it doesn't have lots of mass appeal. In fact, it's so big it won't even fit into CHIP ram, and I've got to use a special sound program (called "sound") that reads it into FAST ram and then moves it chunk by chunk into CHIP ram. Unfortunately, it GURUs often... Anyone got a better alternative? (I want to digitize samples in as big as possible) Oh yeah, if you want the sounds, mail me for them, and I'll uuencode them and send them to you. Beware, though, these are HUGE files. (Up to 1MB, could take forever to download on 2400 baud --- I transfered them using a tape cartridge...) Oh yeah, they're all Japanese music soundtracks from animation. (I'm an anime fan.. So sue me.. :-) ) Some of them have hissing and cross-talk, but most of it sound pretty good. (The 4 minute song I did sounds the best) ># Baird McIntosh "...Can you hear me running; can you hear me calling you?" # ># INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Na Choon Piaw P.O Box, 4067, Berkeley, CA 94704-0067 piaw@cory.berkeley.edu Disclaimer: I'm speaking only for myself! piaw@ocf.berkeley.edu "Still on honeymoon with his Amiga...."
prem@geomag.fsu.edu (Prem Subrahmanyam) (11/20/89)
In article <4468@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: >I'm sorry you don't appreciate the sounds of the C64. However, I must say >that my original post was not meant to get negative feedback. It's fine if >............... >has been of no help to me. This is not a flame, but your post seemed to be. I'm sorry, you just touched off a sensitive spot in me. See, a long time ago, I was a budding musician (now, I am sort of a musician). One Christmas , my parents bought some C64 music composition software for our C64...the name escapes me at the moment, but it was the really hyped one that came in 3 different packages that each did something different. Well, I tried, and tried and tried and......tried to use it to do something musical, to make some nice sounds, etc.....all met with miserable failure. These were in the days before the Amiga, or even CD's had been released. Well, soon in some of the Compute! magazines, there were some articles describing the Amiga and what it would do....from the first description, I was hooked...see I had also tried to do some painting with some C64 paint software and got so frustrated when I tried to color over a specific spot with one color and had the entire vicinity painted that color instead of the line that I was trying to paint. When I heard of the palette that the Amiga would support and the musical capabilities it would have, I set my heart on getting one as soon as possible. When I actually went by and heard a demo of the Miami Vice theme on the Amiga they had there, I knew that *THIS* is what I had been looking for, only in vain, alas, for the C64 to be doing. Well, since then I've thoroughly enjoyed the sophistication of the Amiga as compared to the C64. Now, I will admit, I did like their selection of songs created on the C64....they were really well done for the technology available....but imagine Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" done on the Amiga with a digitized choir, real string sounds, real whatever else sounds, etc. to make it like the real thing. Isn't that a lot more appealing? Like I said before, it would be really nice to have the *SONGS* done on the C64 all redone and jazzed up for the Amiga, but at least to me, it would be unacceptable to have the same *SOUNDS* as the C64 (calculator trying to be Mozart). This is just one opinion, though. Again, I'm sorry for the harsh tone, but it touched on a lot of frustration felt in dealing with the limited capabilities of the C64 in my past. ---Prem Subrahmanyam
ms0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Gordon Shapiro) (11/21/89)
Well, I, for one, agree with you. The C64 music was great. My all-time favorites were the themes to Shard of Spring and, of course, M.U.L.E. I even tried porting the latter to DMCS, with limited success, due to its cruddy sampled sounds. I may try again with Sonix (which is more suited for that kind of up-beat perky music).
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (11/21/89)
In article <5697@wpi.wpi.edu>, northrup@wpi.wpi.edu (Jim Northrup) says: > >My friends and I used to play BallBlazer on my old C64 (got rid of it shortly >before buying my Amiga) --- we'd play for a few hours, and then spend the >next several hours humming the theme music, often without realizing it. #define ORAL_HISTORY_MODE on BallBLazer was created by a guy named Peter Langston, a sort of Da Vinci type guy. He was on leave from Bell Communications Research aka Bellcore, which is the place the the guys at Bell Labs think of as the far out research guys. Langston is the creator of many of the landmards of Unix computing, and also an occaomplishedmusician. One thing that makes the BallBlazer music good is that it is algorithmic--- that is, it doesn't really repeat exactly, though it stays within a tight framework. Langston discussed that algorithm, plus several others in a paper that is published in the Confernence Proceedings of the Usenix Tech. Conference, 1986, PO box 7, El Cerrito, CA 94350. There used to be a phone number that you could call. Langston's computer would answer and compose a couple of tunes, just for you. PS--Oral history means I am making this all up.
mitchell@janus.Berkeley.EDU (Evan Mitchell) (11/21/89)
In article <89324.115732UH2@PSUVM.BITNET> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: > >BallBLazer was created by a guy named Peter Langston, a sort of Da Vinci >type guy. He was on leave from Bell Communications Research aka Bellcore, >which is the place the the guys at Bell Labs think of as the far out >research guys. Langston is the creator of many of the landmards of >Unix computing, and also an occaomplishedmusician. > >One thing that makes the BallBlazer music good is that it is algorithmic--- >that is, it doesn't really repeat exactly, though it stays within a tight >framework. > >PS--Oral history means I am making this all up. Really? Sounds good to me. BTW, wasn't the original Ballblazer (and rescue from Fractalus) designed on the greatest 8-bit of all time, the Atari 800? I remember being amazed at the fact that they could squeeze more than 16K into a cartridge... -Evan _______________________________________________________________________________ | Evan Jay Mitchell EECS/ERL Industrial Liaison Program | | mitchell@janus.berkeley.edu University of California at Berkeley | | Phone: (415) 643-6687 | | "Think, it ain't illegal...yet!" - George Clinton | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
ja26612@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/22/89)
Try AudioMaster II for making long samples. It should let you use all of your fastram. It also lets you sample up to 40Khz. It's a really nice program. Jeff Axelrod