moster@iris.ucdavis.edu (Richard Moster) (11/09/89)
In article <1275@rodan.acs.syr.edu> dkanthar@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Devaprasad Kantharaj) writes: >By the way, your Amiga 1000 is officially not supported anymore. That means >you won't get a new kickstart disk although you can buy the new workbench 1.4 >when it comes out. The new Extended Chip Set will not work with the 1000 either >although if you really want to hang on to it, a third party supplier will sell >a whole new motherboard that will support the 1000 for $700. This motherboard >will also include a video slot compatible with that of the 2000. IS THIS FOR REAL??!!?? Does this mean that I won't be able to run 1.4 on my 1000 without buying new hardware?? If this is true, then I'm going to feel betrayed and abandoned by Commodore.... Richard Moster
thomas@eklektik.UUCP (/dev/tty000) (11/12/89)
Some of that information is true. You will have to buy a third party board to
get all of the features of 1.4. You WILL still get a KickStart disk with 1.4
from what a developer friend of mine has told me. Also, the third party
board is called the Rejuvinator and is made by Greg Tibbs (I thinks that's
his name). It will sell for approx. $500, and for everything that comes on the
board it is a good deal!
--
____
/ / / Amiga 1000 | Thomas "Maverick" Schwarz - Sirius Software
/ / / The Machine | Box 349 Caromar Dr. Mars, PA 16046
____ / / / That Made It | (412) 443-8916
\ \ \/ / / Possible! |
\ \/ / / -- |UUCP: {allegra,cadre}!pitt!darth!floopy!maverick
\/_/_/ First! | or: ...uunet!nfsun!eklektik!thomasdavewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright) (11/14/89)
During the life of a computer (if it is expected to survive for any length of time) there must come a time where the new hardware has features that the old machine did not. Every computer company recognizes this, or their machines would become outdated. Apple did this with the //e and GS, as well as their Macs, and IBM does it too. But for some reason, people who traditionally owned C= equipment seem to think that their machine should be around and be supported forever. As an ex-C= salesman, I got quite sick of people coming in and asking why so few programs were not available on tape or cartridge for the 64 because they did not want to buy a disk drive. Now that many of these people have bought Amiga's, it seems that they want the same thing. The A500 and 2000 have a circuit that allows them to turn off the audio filter. The A1000 didn't. (But someone published a hack for the 1000 that gives it an identical one). The A500 and A2000 have "extra-half-bright" mode. Not all A1000's do. The A500 and A2000 also have a completely different socket for the custom chips which do not fit into the A1000. The A1000 still has it's KickStart on disk, while all the machines produced after it have it on ROM. Now the point of all this diatribe is this. The machines have different capabilities. Unless you expect C= to completely ignore the improvements in the A500 and A2000 (which would sign the death warrant for the Amiga immediately), there is nothing that they can do to make the A1000 up to date. A 3rd party has announced a board for the A1000 that will let you use the new ECS. Why didn't C= come out with it? Simple. It is not in their best interest. A 3rd party can manufacture such a device and make money on it. For C= the whole development would be simply trying to please people who bought a machine over 2 years ago, and have not put any more money into their pockets. As one of the first people to buy an Amiga 1000, I didn't feel left out when the A2000 came along, I simply took it as a good sign in C='s faith that the Amiga line was strong enough to risk the tremendous expense of developing a new machine. And about 6 months later (during their special offer) I upgraded to the new machine myself. You have to realize that the computer field is not static. If you stand still (don't upgrade your machine), you WILL be left behind. This is the same in the auto field, airplane field, electronics field, etc. You can't expect a company to continue to support a product that is not going to generate any more money for them. Any company that tries to do this won't stay in business much longer. How do you think all those people with IBM AT's felt the day that IBM flatly announced the new PS/2's?
auyeung@iris.ucdavis.edu (Tak [UlTech] AuYeung) (11/15/89)
In article <1989Nov13.204336.26531@NCoast.ORG> davewt@ncoast.ORG (David Wright) writes: > >[...] >..................... How do you think all those people with IBM AT's felt >the day that IBM flatly announced the new PS/2's? > But this was one of the reasons why I bought my faithful Amiga 1000! Besides, the PS/2's are quite different from the AT's while the A500 and the A2000 are not THAT different from the A1000. CBM changed the expansion slot (the direction only in the case of the A500) spec. and made life difficult for A1000 owners, the earliest and possibly the most faithful owners... --Tak # # ===== everything's only what it seems to be # # # # ===\ /=== # # >>>>> auyeung@iris.ucdavis.edu # # # # ----X #---# >>>>> Tak-Ying (UlTech) AuYeung \===/ \=== # ===/ \=== # # >>>>> Logical Entity in Netland
moster@iris.ucdavis.edu (Richard Moster) (11/16/89)
In article <1989Nov13.204336.26531@NCoast.ORG> davewt@ncoast.ORG (David Wright) writes: > > During the life of a computer (if it is expected to survive for any >length of time) there must come a time where the new hardware has features >that the old machine did not. Every computer company recognizes this, or >their machines would become outdated. [....] >[....]As one of the first people to buy an Amiga >1000, I didn't feel left out when the A2000 came along, I simply took it as a >good sign in C='s faith that the Amiga line was strong enough to risk the >tremendous expense of developing a new machine. And about 6 months >later (during their special offer) I upgraded to the new machine myself. > You have to realize that the computer field is not static. If you stand >still (don't upgrade your machine), you WILL be left behind. [....] The reason that a company should not abandon a machine that is only a few years old is that it risks developing a negative reputation that can cause future potential customers to avoid buying into their product line. Apparently Commodore realizes this--the rumor that it would no longer support the 1000 was false. Version 1.4 will include a floppy-based version for 1000 owners. I'm sorry if you're disappointed that Commodore is still supporting the machine which you spent so much to replace. Richard Moster
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (11/17/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 6838; Wed 15-Nov-89 17:10:46 PST
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 89 17:09 PST
From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: Amiga 1000 and 1.4
To: "eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM
In-Reply-To: <5947@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
Message-ID: <19891116010949.2.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Date: Wed, 15-Nov-89 16:58:20-PST
Date: 15 Nov 89 20:51:52 GMT
From: Richard Moster <moster@iris.ucdavis.edu>
In article <1989Nov13.204336.26531@NCoast.ORG> davewt@ncoast.ORG (David Wright) writes:
>
> During the life of a computer (if it is expected to survive for any
>length of time) there must come a time where the new hardware has features
>that the old machine did not. Every computer company recognizes this, or
>their machines would become outdated.
[....]
>[....]As one of the first people to buy an Amiga
>1000, I didn't feel left out when the A2000 came along, I simply took it as a
>good sign in C='s faith that the Amiga line was strong enough to risk the
>tremendous expense of developing a new machine. And about 6 months
>later (during their special offer) I upgraded to the new machine myself.
> You have to realize that the computer field is not static. If you stand
>still (don't upgrade your machine), you WILL be left behind. [....]
The reason that a company should not abandon a machine that is
only a few years old is that it risks developing a negative reputation
that can cause future potential customers to avoid buying into their
product line.
Apparently Commodore realizes this--the rumor that it would no
longer support the 1000 was false. Version 1.4 will include a
floppy-based version for 1000 owners.
I'm sorry if you're disappointed that Commodore is still
supporting the machine which you spent so much to replace.
Richard Moster
that's not the issue! When the *software* is upgraded (like a new OS
release) every machine which runs the current operating system should be
updated (with features like (for example) virtual memory which require
an MMU, or new graphics modes which require enhanced chip sets,
optional, of course). However, the issue being discussed here is
HARDWARE upgrades. I don't think one can expect every hardware
enhancement to today's amigas (or tomorrow's) to be available for
yesterday's amigas (or today's). I don't ever EXPECT my A2000 to be a
full 32 bit bus machine!! That would require all new custom chips, and
probably an entirely new motherboard--essentially an all new machine.
I'd rather be able to trade in my A2000 for one of the new machines.
Similar arguments hold for some of the HARDWARE (not software)
differences between the current A1000/A500/A2000.
monty
kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.comwolfe@cygnus.nm.paradyne.com (Mike Wolfe) (11/18/89)
In article <5947@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> moster@iris.ucdavis.edu (Richard Moster) writes: < The reason that a company should not abandon a machine that is >only a few years old is that it risks developing a negative reputation <that can cause future potential customers to avoid buying into their >product line. Yeah, like SUN. This really hurt them :-). ---- Mike Wolfe UUCP {uunet,att}!pdn!wolfe PHONE 813-530-2196 DOMAIN wolfe@pdn.paradyne.com
bartonr@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Robert Barton) (11/18/89)
davewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright) writes: > A 3rd party has announced a board for the A1000 that will let you use the new > ECS. Why didn't C= come out with it? Simple. It is not in their best interest. > A 3rd party can manufacture such a device and make money on it. For C= the > whole development would be simply trying to please people who bought a machine > over 2 years ago, and have not put any more money into their pockets. Selling them a board would put more money in their pockets than selling them nothing except for maybe an Enhancer package every 2 or 3 years. They would be selling ROMs and Super Agnus chips to people who wouldn't otherwise be buying them. signature deleted
swarren@eugene.uucp (Steve Warren) (11/21/89)
In article <1984@psueea.UUCP> bartonr@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Robert Barton) writes: > > Selling them a board would put more money in their pockets than selling them >nothing except for maybe an Enhancer package every 2 or 3 years. They would >be selling ROMs and Super Agnus chips to people who wouldn't otherwise be >buying them. I am sure that it would be a nightmare to try to support a "hacker" style hardware upgrade. Commodore would have no control over who would install it or the assembly process. As the manufacturer they would probably find themselves in court because people didn't assemble or install it correctly. They would have to document it and track the upgrade. They would have to distribute support documentation to all their dealers and make sure it was being supported "out there". They would get blamed for the inevitable incompatabilities that would be introduced by the upgrade, so they would have to come out with ECNs to the upgrades to make everything work right. Not to mention the impact on their image - "Commodore, they're the ones that expect you to build your own upgrade." Selling an assembled upgrade that costs as much as a complete A500 CPU box would probably open them up to more ridicule than acclaim, and I am pretty sure that they would need to price it in that range to make it pay for itself in support and development costs. Ultimately they would probably rather that you just buy a 500 to get the new chips. Stick your 1000 in the corner with a Lucas card in it chugging away on some ray-tracing, it doesn't even need a monitor for that ;^). But if you really want total compatability for your 1000, there is always the rejuvenator. Costs about what a 500 does (but it yields a 1000 with increased functionality - more ram, kick-rom, video port, etc). So what's the problem with that? Seems like a pretty reasonable situation to me. DISCLAIMER - I own a 1000 --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------- {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
kgschlueter@violet.waterloo.edu (Kevin Schlueter) (11/24/89)
In article <1989Nov13.204336.26531@NCoast.ORG> davewt@ncoast.ORG (David Wright) writes: > > But for some reason, people who traditionally owned C= equipment >seem to think that their machine should be around and be supported forever. >As an ex-C= salesman, I got quite sick of people coming in and asking why >so few programs were not available on tape or cartridge for the 64 because >they did not want to buy a disk drive. Ok, I was one of the early A1000 owners. I bought a somewhat overpriced machine and helped keep Commodore in business. I expect some kind of upgrade path (there was NO trade up deal for Canadian owners). My father purchased a RS Model 16. When the T6000 came out, Tandy offered to upgrade his M16, and, they offered the upgrade at a lower price to those who had paid the original, higher price for the M16. I fully expect Commodore to update their machines and eventually make them incompatible with the old models. However, I also expect them to make an effort to partially accomodate the owners of the older machines, up to the limits of that older machine's hardware capabilities. You might claim that I'm being unrealistic. Perhaps I am. One thing I do know is that I will hesitate before buying another machine from Commodore. If enough people are as "unreasonable" as I am, Commodore will go out of business. Maybe Commodore's shareholders will be consoled by the fact that it was "unreasonable" people who put the company out of business.
schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger X2502) (11/25/89)
In article <18532@watdragon.waterloo.edu> kgschlueter@violet.waterloo.edu (Kevin Schlueter) writes: > >Ok, I was one of the early A1000 owners. I bought a somewhat overpriced >machine and helped keep Commodore in business. I expect some kind >of upgrade path (there was NO trade up deal for Canadian owners). My >father purchased a RS Model 16. When the T6000 came out, Tandy offered >to upgrade his M16, and, they offered the upgrade at a lower price to >those who had paid the original, higher price for the M16. > >I fully expect Commodore to update their machines and eventually make >them incompatible with the old models. However, I also expect them to make >an effort to partially accomodate the owners of the older machines, >up to the limits of that older machine's hardware capabilities. Tandy is to be praised for the support they have given for their orphaned machines, such as the T2000 (80186 based MSDOS machine, not a PC-compatible). But it is interesting to note that they have now abandoned the Tandy 6000 line completely (admittedly the line had a long history starting back with the Z80 based Model II, then Model 12, Model 16 and finally T6000). It appears that with this move, no upgrade or conversion path was offered. There might be some parts support still offered, but there is no mention of the T6000 in the current RS catalog. -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger CompuServe: 74236,1645 Standard Disclaimer ARPAnet (Defense Data Network): schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************