okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay S J) (11/09/89)
>From: limonce%pilot.njin.net%mwunix@mwvm.mitre.org (limonce at pilot.njin.net@MWUNIX) [Lots of Headers and annoying "you wrote" lines deleted] >How does Commodore-Amiga expect to keep the Amiga "the best kept >secret in the computer industry" if they do things like this? > >Ugh! > >:-) > >-Tom But Tom, wouldn't it be great if one day PC Ragazine changed its name to AmiMagazine and there were hundreds of glossy ads advertising Amiga Clones?? The Woz selling apples(i.e. Delicious, not Macs) on the streets? ----Go ahead guys, blow your cover! --Steve ------------ Stephen Okay Smart:OKAY@TAFS.MITRE.ORG Safe:M20836@mwvm.mitre.org Disclaimer:"Mine!....mineminemineminemineminemine"
okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay, S J) (11/15/89)
>From: limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) >In article <3719@nigel.udel.EDU> okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay S J) writes: > >> But Tom, wouldn't it be great if one day PC Ragazine changed its name to >> AmiMagazine and there were hundreds of glossy ads advertising Amiga >> Clones?? The Woz selling apples(i.e. Delicious, not Macs) on the streets? >> > >> >:-) >> > >> >-Tom >> > >Noooo! Then *EVERYONE* would know about the Amiga and C-A might >actually turn a bigger profit and be able to spend more on developing >new OSs and machines and ... I guess you missed my smilie or you just >forgot to include one yourself :-) > [asstd .sigs deleted] True....and heres something else to chew on: Remember when the Mac first came out and everybody was calling it "insanely great" and yuppies started saying "cool" and "neato" again? When was the last time you heard that??--When was the last time you heard anything about the Mac that contained the word "creative" or "fun" ? --Want to know why those words have been dropped in the Trashcan and double-clicked on? For the simple reason that the Mac became popular and "accepted"...suddenly all the brain-dead yuppies had to have one for their company's DTP work. Then they started using spreadsheets on it, then databases..then accounting software, etc. Suddenly, everything that made the Mac a "neato" machine was squashed out of existence and the words "financially sound", "compatible", "conforms to XXXXX standards" oozed up from the MS-DROSS pit and the Mac was now The Computer For The Rest of Us Well-Heeled Execudroids. Magazines that once catered to the programmer/hobbyist now have "Spreadsheet Shootout --We pick the top 3" plastered across them and you can't slog through a page without the phrase "Office Workgroup Solutions" splattering you in the face at least 3 times. This is what is ahead for our beloved Ami. Not a pretty thought ehh?? The day Amiga World and Transactor blather only about A-MAX and how compatible the Ami is with all the 2nd class machines that have been left behind is the day I find a new machine.... ---Steve (too tired for a .sig but you can be assured that these are only my thoughts, if even that)
gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) (11/16/89)
okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay S J) writes:
True....and heres something else to chew on:
Remember when the Mac first came out and everybody was calling it "insanely
great" and yuppies started saying "cool" and "neato" again?
When was the last time you heard that??--When was the last time you heard
anything about the Mac that contained the word "creative" or "fun" ?
--Want to know why those words have been dropped in the Trashcan and
double-clicked on? For the simple reason that the Mac became popular and
"accepted"...suddenly all the brain-dead yuppies had to have one for their
company's DTP work. Then they started using spreadsheets on it, then
databases..then accounting software, etc. Suddenly, everything that made
the Mac a "neato" machine was squashed out of existence and the words
"financially sound", "compatible", "conforms to XXXXX standards" oozed up
from the MS-DROSS pit and the Mac was now The Computer For The Rest of Us
Well-Heeled Execudroids. Magazines that once catered to the
programmer/hobbyist now have "Spreadsheet Shootout --We pick the top 3"
plastered across them and you can't slog through a page without the phrase
"Office Workgroup Solutions" splattering you in the face at least 3 times.
This is what is ahead for our beloved Ami. Not a pretty thought ehh??
================
I have to agree with these sentiments. I have felt for a long time
that there are really two personal computer markets out there -- the
people who want their own computer, and the business market. These
two markets are largely different in their needs. For example,
"standardization" is a high priority in the business market. It is a
lower priority for the individual market. Low price/high performance
is a high priority for the individual market. It is not for the
business market.
Unfortunately there is more money in the business market. Once the
Amiga becomes a big seller in that market, it is almost inevitable
that that market will call the shots.
The result of this process can be seen in such anomalies as people
still worrying about the 640k limit, brought about by the introduction
of the IBM personal computer, a machine that was obsolete when it was
introduced, but which became a "standard". (I overheard a
conversation a few months ago at a big computer store: "I have 2 megs
in my computer but I don't know what to do with it"). Someone has
described the effect of IBM's introduction of this thing as calling a
ten-year halt to innovation in the personal computer world.
The point of all this, is, really, that we need to "know our friends
from our foes". In a sense, if Amiga makes it big in the business
world, it will mean that it will become a different machine. It won't
be the innovative machine with the great price/performance ratio that
we all bought, but instead, will be a platform for running the big
three applications that businesses want -- word processors,
spreadsheets, and database managers. The Amiga would probably be very
good at this; they might sell a lot of them. Then who has the say in
where development effort goes? Me, who will buy an Amiga, keep it for
4 or 5 years, then upgrade when I get the money? Or some
mis-manager (pun intended) who can order them by the hundreds?
Thus, I am somewhat skeptical about whether all the "good" things that
are happening are really good for me (I mean the me that represents
many of the readers of this group!). What I really want is for
Commodore to stay hungry enough so I matter to them, but not so hungry
that they starve. But on the other hand, I suppose all those Amiga
folks that suffered through the lean times should be able to get some
reward.
Thus goes capitalism.
Disclaimer -- these ramblings bear no relation the official opinions
of my employer.
-Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.compete@i-core.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) (11/26/89)
This talk about how the Mac and the IBM's eventually became slaves to the execudroid brings about another idea. Is the Amiga, the last great machine of the hacker? What I'm speaking of is not the pirate/hacker, but the classic hacker. The person who buys a machine, then programs/modifies it to his own delights. The Apple II was a great example of this and I am starting to realize that the Amiga is probably the last example of it. Every computer introduced now is either shut up tight, or costs ten grand and is a "workstation." Try starting a Fish disk collection on a NeXT, har har. I've seen some wild developments on the Amiga since I bought one in early '86. Everything from a program that plays "La Conda Via" on my disk drive to its ever increasing graphics capabilities (anyone seen NewTek's Dynamic Hires yet? WOW!). I just don't think that if I invested in a brand, spanking new Mac IIci with AU/X, I would see that kind of "underground innovation." I also don't seem to think tha any bunch of hardware hackers are going to get together and create another dream machine like the Apple II was and the Amiga was as well. Is innovation dead? Is this severe rambling?
hue@netcom.UUCP (Johathan Hue) (12/04/89)
In article <1989Nov26.075959.822@i-core.UUCP> pete@i-core.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) writes: >Is the Amiga, the last great machine of the hacker? What I'm speaking of is >not the pirate/hacker, but the classic hacker. The person who buys a >machine, then programs/modifies it to his own delights. The Apple II was a >great example of this and I am starting to realize that the Amiga is >probably the last example of it. Right. The only reason I have to own a computer is to have something to fool around with, and IMHO the Amiga is the only computer on the market that's fun to fool around with, regardless of price. I know all of you know how wonderful the Amiga is, so I don't need to tell you what I like about it. What's fun about a PC clone or a Mac? At work I have both a NeXT and IBM PS/2-80 (running UNIX) on my desk. I wouldn't want either one at home, except maybe for running a USENET node. Both are great for doing work, but neither is any fun. The most fun we've had with a NeXT so far is to animate a chainsaw and have it play back chainsaw noises recorded on my Amiga. -Jonathan