rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu (Brewski Rogers) (11/29/89)
Recently, I had the opportunity to screw around with an Apple 3 for a few hours. Yes, that's "APPLE ]|[" the old sequel to the apple 2 which died a pitiful and ignominious death. This computer is from circa 1982, a true computing dinosaur. Anyway, it had one feature that I would really like to have on my own computer: pressure sensitive cursor keys. When editing a file for example, you could push the key normally, and scroll slowly through the file, or push the key a little harder, and the cursor would double its speed! The cursor keys had a nice feel, too. It was easy to select either slow or fast mode. If you pushed normally, it felt like a normal key, bt with a bit more force, you could feel a slight click, and the cursor went into turbo mode. This seems like a really useful feature to me. Even though some people may say the mouse is all you need, there are plenty of times when a cursor key is more appropriate for cursor movement. And there are times for fine cursor control, and times for *speed* So does anybody know why no other computer has this feature? It doesn't seem as though it would add much to the price of the keyboard, although I don't know how reliable it would be. The apple 3 was about seven years old, and the keys still worked great. ------------------------------------------------------ Quantum _\/_ 2727 Eel Bruce (6502 RULES!) Rogers |\ Duck ( 0 0) Davis, Ca 95616 Quantum Duck Software, |\ \______/ / \\\ 916-756-2684 rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu |\ < < | \/ "It's better to be the real thing than the right thing." \________/ Quark!
richard@calvin.EE.CORNELL.EDU (Richard Brittain) (11/29/89)
In article <6080@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu (Brewski Rogers) writes: >Recently, I had the opportunity to screw around with an Apple 3 for a few >hours. Yes, that's "APPLE ]|[" the old sequel to the apple 2 which .. >When editing a file for example, you could push the key normally, >and scroll slowly through the file, or push the key a little harder, >and the cursor would double its speed! The cursor keys had a nice feel, I've never seen this in hardware, but I played with a Zenith 286 machine once that implemented something similar in the keyboard bios routines. If you held a key down, you got an autorepeat after some delay time, then after some number of slow repeats, it switched to high gear and took off at high speed. I think the hardware was pretty standard - you could do this with any pc type bios, but I've never heard of it anywhere else. Richard Brittain, School of Elect. Eng., Upson Hall Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 ARPA: richard@calvin.spp.cornell.edu UUCP: {uunet,uw-beaver,rochester,cmcl2}!cornell!calvin!richard
bb16@prism.gatech.EDU (Scott Bostater) (11/29/89)
In article <2508@calvin.EE.CORNELL.EDU> richard@calvin.spp.cornell.edu (Richard Brittain) writes: >In article <6080@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu (Brewski Rogers) writes: >>When editing a file for example, you could push the key normally, >>and scroll slowly through the file, or push the key a little harder, >>and the cursor would double its speed! The cursor keys had a nice feel, >I've never seen this in hardware, but I played with a Zenith 286 machine >once that implemented something similar in the keyboard bios routines. If >you held a key down, you got an autorepeat after some delay time, then after >some number of slow repeats, it switched to high gear and took off at high >speed. I think the hardware was pretty standard - you could do this with >any pc type bios, but I've never heard of it anywhere else. This isn't quite what the Apple /// did. The change in cursor speeds was a function of how *hard* you pressed, not how long you kept the key pressed. What it would require is a multi-level key that would have three or more states (off, on, and really on). It's been a while since I was "lucky" enough to use an Apple ///, but if memory serves me right, only the cursor keys had this option, to get turbo speed on normal characters required pressing both the desired key and either the open or closed apple key. As far as why the keyboard lasted 7+ years, its probably because it hasn't been used much in the last 5 years :-) Realisticly, I would imagine that its a lot easier (and cheaper) to build a 2 position switch than a multiple position switch. I've seen a few programs around that allow the cursor to speed up if the key been pressed for a long time, but normally they go from too slow to too fast. What we really need is some mechanism that monitors eye movement and moves the cursor to whatever portion of the screen we're looking at :-) It should be able to tell if we purposely blink our right eye or left eye or double blink both eyes :-) . -- Scott Bostater GTRI/RAIL/RAD (Ga. Tech) "My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from Him" -Ps 62.1 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!bb16 Internet: bb16@prism.gatech.edu
nsw@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Neil Weinstock) (11/30/89)
In article <6080@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu (Brewski Rogers) writes: > >Recently, I had the opportunity to screw around with an Apple 3 for a few >hours. Yes, that's "APPLE ]|[" the old sequel to the apple 2 which >died a pitiful and ignominious death. This computer is from circa 1982, >a true computing dinosaur. Anyway, it had one feature that I would really >like to have on my own computer: pressure sensitive cursor keys. >When editing a file for example, you could push the key normally, >and scroll slowly through the file, or push the key a little harder, >and the cursor would double its speed! The cursor keys had a nice feel, >too. It was easy to select either slow or fast mode. If you pushed >normally, it felt like a normal key, bt with a bit more force, you >could feel a slight click, and the cursor went into turbo mode. Hey, I like it, aftertouch on computer keyboards! So when are we going to see velocity sensitive keyboard? Hit it soft, get lower case. Hit it harder, get upper case. Hit it really hard, get boldface. The possibitilities are endless! Then we can get a pitch bend wheel to control sub/superscripting... Did the Apple /// keyboard have a weighted piano-action? ;-) ;-) ;-) ________________ __________________ ____________________________ //// \\// \\// \\\\ \\\\ Neil Weinstock //\\ att!cord!nsw or //\\ "Oh dear, now I shall have //// //// AT&T Bell Labs \\// nsw@cord.att.com \\// to create more Martians." \\\\ \\\\________________//\\__________________//\\____________________________////
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (11/30/89)
In article <7185@cbnewsm.ATT.COM> nsw@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Neil Weinstock) writes:
:Hey, I like it, aftertouch on computer keyboards! So when are we going to
:see velocity sensitive keyboard? Hit it soft, get lower case. Hit it harder,
:get upper case. Hit it really hard, get boldface. The possibitilities are
:endless! Then we can get a pitch bend wheel to control sub/superscripting...
:[...]
:;-) ;-) ;-)
Sure, and if you hit it with a hammer, you get Bold Uppercase. Hit the
period hard, and you get an exclamation point. Just brush it, and you get
a question mark.
etc..
:-)
--Mikeglenn@synaptx.Synaptics.Com (Glenn Gribble) (12/01/89)
[Discussion about Apple /// multi-level cursor keys deleted] The best cursor accelerator I have ever seen was the Knob on HP 98x6 machines. The knob was located at the upper left of the keyboard so your hands don't have to leave the keyboard. When turned it sent horizontal cursor motion commands. Shift caused vertical cursor motions. Turn faster and the cursor moves faster. HP deleted the knob when they changed to a "standard" keyboard. :-( Why are 90% of keyboard "advances" retarded? -- Glenn Gribble glenn@synaptics.com uunet!synaptx!glenn
Sullivan@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (12/04/89)
>[Discussion about Apple /// multi-level cursor keys deleted] > >The best cursor accelerator I have ever seen was the Knob on HP 98x6 >machines. The knob was located at the upper left of the keyboard so >your hands don't have to leave the keyboard. When turned it sent >horizontal cursor motion commands. Shift caused vertical cursor >motions. Turn faster and the cursor moves faster. HP deleted the >knob when they changed to a "standard" keyboard. :-( > >Why are 90% of keyboard "advances" retarded? > Sounds like a brain dead version of a trackball. Including trackballs to emulate cursor movement keys is interesting, but not nearly so useful as having a separate pointer which is controlled by the trackball (or mouse since they are similar in function.) As mice (or trackballs) go, I would prefer not to have them integrated into the keyboard. It sounds like a reasonable "advance" to me... -ss
unhd (Jason W Nyberg) (12/04/89)
In article <7185@cbnewsm.ATT.COM> nsw@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Neil Weinstock) writes: >Hey, I like it, aftertouch on computer keyboards! So when are we going to >see velocity sensitive keyboard? Hit it soft, get lower case. Hit it harder, >get upper case. Hit it really hard, get boldface. The possibitilities are >endless! Then we can get a pitch bend wheel to control sub/superscripting... > >Did the Apple /// keyboard have a weighted piano-action? > >;-) ;-) ;-) > If I had one of these, my programs would look like shit. (I have a very short temper when it comes to debugging)yy p>;-) ;-) ;-) (By the way, due to keen interest, Lollybob should be in comp.sys.binaries soon now. Not right now, but soon, so relax!) --------------------------------------- | ^v^ | Jason Nyberg | I \ / SKIING! | | v | ---------------------------------------
wiseman@tellab5.TELLABS.COM (Jeff Wiseman) (12/04/89)
In article <1118@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>, mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) writes: > :get upper case. Hit it really hard, get boldface. The possibitilities are > :endless! Then we can get a pitch bend wheel to control sub/superscripting... > :[...] > :;-) ;-) ;-) > > Sure, and if you hit it with a hammer, you get Bold Uppercase. Hit the > period hard, and you get an exclamation point. Just brush it, and you get > a question mark. > Hey guys, do you have any idea what this might do to the mental state of a frustrated programmer?? My experience has always been that the pressure applied to a key is directly proportional to the level of frustration of the typer (sp?). This means that a highly stressed individual could very quickly accelerate to a state of total insanity as his typing went from plain to italic to bold to bold-italic, etc. :-) Of course, then again, I never seem to pound on my mac keyboard the way I do on my UNIX terminal at work. Hmmm..... -- Jeff Wiseman: ....uunet!tellab5!wiseman OR wiseman@TELLABS.COM