lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/27/89)
In <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? > >The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 >emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. Or unless someone else decides they want to write one, neh? >-- Marco Papa 'Doc' -larry -- " All I ask of my body is that it carry around my head." - Thomas Alva Edison - +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
AIN14994@merrimack.edu (11/28/89)
I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX
Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed
on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using
an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work.
Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? I would greatly
appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Thanks,
Edward Greenwoodpapa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (11/28/89)
In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: > I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (11/29/89)
In article <835@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >>In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >>>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? >> >>The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 >>emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. > >Or unless someone else decides they want to write one, neh? Sure. But to give you an idea of the effort involved, may I suggest that you pick up a VT240 (or VT340) Programmer's Manual. Not something you want to embark on just as a moonlighting job, with no money up front. There is one VT240 emulator for the Mac and about 3 for the PC. All of them have been produced by major companies, larger than any of the Amiga companies (except for WordPerfect, Inc.). But the MAJOR hurdle to justifying such an effort is that it isn't clear whether Commodore sees that market as strategic for the Amiga, and even then whether the Amiga can make it as a business tool. I don't disagree that it is possibly a chicken-and-egg type of problem. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu (11/30/89)
In article <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? > > The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 > emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. > > -- Marco Papa 'Doc' Please! Give Commodore a break. Are they required to come out with every piece of software than anyone might find useful? That's what the third parties are for. Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. -- James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu (11/30/89)
In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > In article <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >>> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? >> >> The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 >> emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. >> >> -- Marco Papa 'Doc' > > Please! Give Commodore a break. Are they required to come out with every piece > of software than anyone might find useful? That's what the third parties are > for. Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is > Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 > with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with > Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. > (^^that's my writing) my bust on that; have since learned that that's not what a VT240 is... but GKS is a device-independent graphics system, so he should be able use a Tektronix emulator quite successfully for that effect. > -- > James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- > jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET -- James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (11/30/89)
In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is >Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 >with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with >Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. "Anyway, check your facts" :-) You are "confused", dude. If the only thing you need is Tektronix graphics, then there are commercial and PD programs for the Amiga that provide that. As far as Tektronix graphics is concerned, the VT240 doesn't provide anything more than these packages (that is, VT240 does not provide Tek 4105/7 color graphics). BUT, a VT240 includes all the stuff in a VT220 (including multinational support), sixel graphics and REGIS graphics. Not a simple undertaking or like somebody has suggested: "take Dave Wecker's VT100 and hack a VT240 into it" :-) Just pick up a VT240 manual and from the SIZE of it you'll get an idea at what effort would be involved in such a project. The size of the few companies that built such a beast for the Mac and the PC is larger than any of the Amiga developers, save for WordPerfect. I can tell you because I tried, there is NO independent software publisher in the Amiga market TODAY that would fund such a project WITHOUT some help from Commodore (since venture capitalists are totally absent in the Amiga market). And maybe there is a reason: the market is just not there (BTW: there is no problem in getting funding for games, if you are interested in such things). -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
manes@topsy.UUCP (Mark D. Manes) (12/01/89)
In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > In article <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > > In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: > > > > The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 > > emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. > > > > -- Marco Papa 'Doc' > > Please! Give Commodore a break. Are they required to come out with every piece > of software than anyone might find useful? That's what the third parties are > for. Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is > Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 > with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with > Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. > -- > James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- Eeek gad, you folks with the exception of Marco are suffering from a unixgasm. Silly to assume that vt240 is nothing more than a Tektronics terminal with a DEC keyboard. I have 20 vt240's around, and their major claim to fame is sixel graphics. AS a tektronics terminal, they suck. It is my understanding that GKS is the replacement standard for the DEC sixel graphics that is in a vt240. Most people who want a vt240 emulator want to be able to use REGIS graphics, not for tektronics emulation. REGIS and SIXEL graphics is difficult and tedious considering the resolution of the Amiga. PC companies make big money in creating emulations for these type of terminals, because it is not a trival matter. Marco, you were right on target. -mark=
riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) (12/01/89)
In article <4289@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >>> In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >>>> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>>>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>>>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>>>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>>>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? [...lots of misunderstandings about the vt240 deleted...] >... but GKS is a device-independent graphics system, so he should be >able use a Tektronix emulator quite successfully for that effect. IF the tektronix driver was installed with GKS on his system, and IF the program(s) he is using lets the user select the workstation type of he has source code and can change the workstation type, or the program(s) already uses the vt240 tektronix emulation. If there's no tektronix specific driver available on his system, or there's no way to select tektronix as the workstation type, then tek emulation won't do a lot of good. -Dan Riley (riley@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) -Wilson Lab, Cornell U.
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (12/01/89)
In article <275@topsy.UUCP> manes@topsy.UUCP (Mark D. Manes) writes: >Eeek gad, you folks with the exception of Marco are suffering from >a unixgasm. Silly to assume that vt240 is nothing more than a Tektronics >terminal with a DEC keyboard. >[....] >Most people who want a vt240 emulator want to be able to use REGIS graphics, >not for tektronics emulation. REGIS and SIXEL graphics is difficult and >tedious considering the resolution of the Amiga. PC companies make big >money in creating emulations for these type of terminals, because it is >not a trival matter. > >Marco, you were right on target. Gee, thanks. For the interested ones, one starting point might be your local PC store: check out Smarterm 240 by Persoft (for PCs) or White Pine Mac240 (for the Mac). True, none of them is cheap, but a "real" VT240 ain't cheap either :-) -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu (12/01/89)
In article <21476@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >>Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is >>Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 >>with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with >>Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. > > for the Amiga that provide that. As far as Tektronix graphics is concerned, > the VT240 doesn't provide anything more than these packages (that is, VT240 > does not provide Tek 4105/7 color graphics). BUT, a VT240 includes all the > stuff in a VT220 (including multinational support), sixel graphics and REGIS > graphics. Not a simple undertaking or like somebody has suggested: "take > Dave Wecker's VT100 and hack a VT240 into it" :-) Just pick up a VT240 manual > and from the SIZE of it you'll get an idea at what effort would be > involved in such a project. I've heard of emulators with Sixel graphics, (never heard of REGIS though)... sounds like most of the work has been done with Handshake already. How much harder could it be to add a few graphics modes? (Tektronix emulators are a dime a dozen). I guess it probably would be done if there was enough interest, but VT100 (and 220 for some people) is probably enough for the bulk of the population. > > -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -- James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (12/02/89)
In article <4386@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >I've heard of emulators with Sixel graphics, (never heard of REGIS though)... ^^^^ >sounds like most of the work has been done with Handshake already. How much >harder could it be to add a few graphics modes? ^^^^^ REGIS graphics has been around for at least 10 years, on DEC terminals (initially on the VT125). The tone of your question clearly demonstrates that you haven't the faintest idea of what you're talking about. Do your research: go to your university computing center or library and pick up a VT240 manual. Check it out and then make statements. The VT240 has a miriad of other functions besides REGIS, TEK and SIZEL graphics (multinational support, downloadable fonts, remappable keyboards, printer support, just to name a few ), none of which is included in a plain VT100. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
jtreworgy%eagle.wesleyan.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu (12/07/89)
In article <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? > > The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 > emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. > > -- Marco Papa 'Doc' Please! Give Commodore a break. Are they required to come out with every piece of software than anyone might find useful? That's what the third parties are for. Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. -- James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
jtreworgy%eagle.wesleyan.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu (12/07/89)
In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > In article <21427@usc.edu>, papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >> In article <13259@merrimack.edu> AIN14994@merrimack.edu writes: >>> I am currently taking a Graphics course using GKS on a Digital VAX >>>Computer. As far as I know, graphics can only be drawn and displayed >>>on Digital VT240 Terminals. I would like to be able to work by phone using >>>an Amiga. I've tried both VT100 and VT220 emulators but these don't work. >>>Does a VT240 or similar emulator exist for the Amiga? >> >> The answer is NO. It will stay that way unless CBM decides that a VT240 >> emulator is a 'strategic' product for the Amiga. >> >> -- Marco Papa 'Doc' > > Please! Give Commodore a break. Are they required to come out with every piece > of software than anyone might find useful? That's what the third parties are > for. Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is > Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 > with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with > Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. > (^^that's my writing) my bust on that; have since learned that that's not what a VT240 is... but GKS is a device-independent graphics system, so he should be able use a Tektronix emulator quite successfully for that effect. > -- > James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- > jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET -- James A. Treworgy -- No quote here for insurance reasons -- jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu jtreworgy%eagle@WESLEYAN.BITNET
papa%pollux.usc.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu (12/07/89)
In article <4287@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtreworgy@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >Anyway, check your facts... I use GKS on a Vax and all it needs is >Tektronix emulation to display graphics. I suspect a VT240 is simply a VT220 >with Tektronix built in. There are several freely distributable programs with >Tektronix emulation available for the Amiga. "Anyway, check your facts" :-) You are "confused", dude. If the only thing you need is Tektronix graphics, then there are commercial and PD programs for the Amiga that provide that. As far as Tektronix graphics is concerned, the VT240 doesn't provide anything more than these packages (that is, VT240 does not provide Tek 4105/7 color graphics). BUT, a VT240 includes all the stuff in a VT220 (including multinational support), sixel graphics and REGIS graphics. Not a simple undertaking or like somebody has suggested: "take Dave Wecker's VT100 and hack a VT240 into it" :-) Just pick up a VT240 manual and from the SIZE of it you'll get an idea at what effort would be involved in such a project. The size of the few companies that built such a beast for the Mac and the PC is larger than any of the Amiga developers, save for WordPerfect. I can tell you because I tried, there is NO independent software publisher in the Amiga market TODAY that would fund such a project WITHOUT some help from Commodore (since venture capitalists are totally absent in the Amiga market). And maybe there is a reason: the market is just not there (BTW: there is no problem in getting funding for games, if you are interested in such things). -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (12/07/89)
I guess mmdf@udel.edu is at it again. Can you fix that sucker, guys, PLEASE? I got at least 50 repeat messages today from udel. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Chris_F_Chiesa@cup.portal.com (12/10/89)
Speaking from several years' experience with VT240's in both ReGIS and Sixel, believe me, ReGIS alone is Godawful complex. There are commands and subcommands and options and suboptions and several levels of save/restore for dozens of variables; bitmap manipulations and masks and polygon fills and arc-splining and text and macros... Whew. A terse, two-lines-per-command DESCRIPTION of ReGIS commands, alone, comes to about five or six pages just in the "reference card." It's more like FORTY pages in the programmer's manual... I still have a fond dream of someday writing a ReGIS interpreter, but by golly I haven't gotten a handle on it yet after four years of brainstorming... :-)
Sullivan@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (12/11/89)
> >Speaking from several years' experience with VT240's in both ReGIS and >Sixel, believe me, ReGIS alone is Godawful complex. There are commands >and subcommands and options and suboptions and several levels of save/restore >for dozens of variables; bitmap manipulations and masks and polygon fills and >arc-splining and text and macros... Whew. A terse, two-lines-per-command >DESCRIPTION of ReGIS commands, alone, comes to about five or six pages just >in the "reference card." It's more like FORTY pages in the programmer's >manual... Forty pages?!? That is nothing. Look at a tektronix manual some time. I've only played with the ReGIS subset which is implemented on the digital GIGI, but it was much less complex than say, a basic interpreter. Probably the most complex part of ReGIS is that you can specify the same command several different ways. Rather than hardcode the meaning of each command it would be neccessary to interpret them. Still I can't believe that there aren't any companies out there that are willing to do this. ...I just flipped through the GIGI manual. The full command descriptions are in chapter 12 which is only 25 pages long... -ss