uh2@psuvm.bitnet.UUCP (07/31/87)
The Amiga Dealer here in Erie PA just showed me something pretty
interesting--there is a software bundle deal coming for the A500.
I haven't got the exact deals here in front of me, but most of this
is correct.
For $199 you get
Wordperfect
MaxiPlan 500
SuperBase
Diga!
DeluxePaint II
CLIMate
and a couple more things I cannot remember right now. Looks pretty
exciting to me.
For $99 you get
Deluxe PAint
TexCraft?
and 3 other programs, but I cannot remember what.
The dealer said this is being worked thru user groups, somehow, but
I didn't get that part.
This is a *real* insofar as I saw what appeared to be an Official
Announcement aimed at dealers, from Commodore, so let's hope.
lee
lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) (08/01/87)
In article <17701UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >The Amiga Dealer here in Erie PA just showed me something pretty >interesting--there is a software bundle deal coming for the A500. >I haven't got the exact deals here in front of me, but most of this >is correct. > >For $199 you get > Wordperfect > MaxiPlan 500 > SuperBase > Diga! > DeluxePaint II > CLIMate Whoa, where's my credit card! Your telling me that someday soon new A500 users will be able to get about $600 worth of software for $200?? Wow. THIS one I'll believe when I see it. I ain't holding my breath. -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lachac
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (08/02/87)
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) wrote: >For $199 you get ... Wordperfect ... MaxiPlan 500 ... SuperBase ... >Diga! ... DeluxePaint II ... CLIMate ... and a couple more things ... >This is a *real* insofar as I saw what appeared to be an Official >Announcement aimed at dealers, from Commodore, so let's hope. I would be surprised if Commodore was this stupid. Yes, these are nice packages, and yes, it's great for the users, thus the dealers. But if Commodore thinks the rest of the Amiga Developer community will sit back and endorse this, they're wrong. A couple of developers I spoke with said if this goes through they'll leave the Amiga market and go elsewhere, where the *market* decides what packages will make it, not some blessing from the hardware vendor. [Interesting that many developers are upset at Apple for a similar proposed action... is it a conspiracy?] This [rumored] action will *kill* any chance of any new Amiga product development. Do you think the wonderful MicroFiche Filer would have materialized on the Amiga under these conditions? I'd say not, and the Amiga community would be the worse for it. I don't have any affiliation with any of the above named products or companies. But I'm a commercial developer, and even though I personally won't get burnt by this action, a lot of other Amiga developers will. It also make me fear future Commodore actions to further alienate their developers. This is the first I have heard of this; I hope it's just a nasty rumor. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet}
perry@atux01.UUCP (08/03/87)
In article <1583@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) wrote: > >For $199 you get ... Wordperfect ... MaxiPlan 500 ... SuperBase ... > >Diga! ... DeluxePaint II ... CLIMate ... and a couple more things ... > I would be surprised if Commodore was this stupid. Yes, these are > nice packages, and yes, it's great for the users, thus the dealers. Weeeeeell. This was announced by Gail Wellington on Bix. And also at the BCS meeting that (you and) I attended I think. Your points (made later on the message) are WELL taken. Be interesting to see how this develops. Perry
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (08/03/87)
I see the point that bundling a lot of good software will make
life tuff on software developers, but I am still not sure that this
alone makes it such a bad idea. One of the arguements I've often
had to use in IBM--Mac debates, where IBM has so much ``more''
software, is that you only need one good word processor, Spreadsheet,
etc. etc., not ten of each.
Which would you rather see? 1 million A500's at $800, all with
WordPerfect, Maxiplan, etc., or 300 thousand A500's, most of which
have no good software, and the rest of which have 10 different Word
Processors, etc?
Seems to me that the developers are better off if there are more machines.
lee
rtolly@cca.CCA.COM (Bob Tolly) (08/03/87)
The packages as shown on 2 Commodore flyers are: Package A: $99 (list is $599) Textcraft Plus Aegis Animator Deluxe Paint II Pagesetter Marble Madness Epyx 500XJ Joystick Package B: $199 (list is $1200) Pagesetter Deluxe WordPerfect Superbase Maxiplan 500 CLImate Deluxe Video Diga This will be offered to members of Amiga User Groups in conjunction with their Amiga 500 purchase (although I have to believe we will see it opened up to just about anyone). I agree with Bob Page - this will not encourage people to develop software for the Amiga. The prices are such that it would be hard not to buy one or the other package, even if one doesn't want everything in it, and that will close a good portion of the market for competitors of these products.
eric@hector..UUCP (Eric Lavitsky) (08/03/87)
I believe that the bundled packages mentioned are part of a one
time, one machine per *User Group* deal. It still may leave people
feeling left out, but that would make it not so bad, no?
The idea is to promote the Amiga 500: offer to every *Commodore* (note,
not just Amiga) user group the chance to buy an A500 and a bunch of
software real cheap so the club can show off the machine at all it's
meetings, eh? and there are a lot of Commodore user groups out there,
just think what the world would be like if all those 64 owners were
enticed into buying A500's ;-)
Eric
ARPA: Lavitsky@RED.RUTGERS.EDU
UUCP: ...{wherever!}ulysses!eric
...{wherever!}rutgers!topaz!eric
SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst La., Piscataway, NJ 08854robinson@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) (08/03/87)
In article <18543@cca.CCA.COM> rtolly@CCA.CCA.COM.UUCP (Bob Tolly) writes: >I agree with Bob Page - this will not encourage people to develop >software for the Amiga. The prices are such that it would be >hard not to buy one or the other package, even if one doesn't >want everything in it, and that will close a good portion >of the market for competitors of these products. I'm not so sure that this is the case. As it is, I am somewhat suprised by the frequency of comments to the effect of "product A does this really well, product B does this other really well, but to get any work done, you really need both" when discussing Amiga software. I suppose this is fostered by the wide degree of data interchangeability. The point being that, although a significant market share will disappear for certain types of programs, the market will not disappear entirely. Take, for example, the continued market presence of terminal programs despite the availability of VT100 2.6 for free. This reduced market share for developers has to be weighed against the phenomenal sales of 500's that will undoubtably result. Smaller share, but bigger pie. Is it worth it? Just a thought. On a different note, from what I saw of Pagesetter Deluxe at SIGGRAPH, I don't think there's much room for competition in that market, bundle or no. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu
cmcmanis@pepper.UUCP (08/03/87)
[I guess this one comes under the heading, you can't please everyone all
of the time. ]
Yes, it is true, Commodore will be offering a 'bundling deal' to User
Group members. On BIX, Gail Wellington of Commodore, posted a message
to the effect that 'real' User groups (those that can send a list of
their members to Commodore) will be given an opportunity to purchase
a discounted system for the club, and the members will be given an
opportunity to by one of these software bundles. Call CBM if you want
more info (Westchester, PA). Bob Page thinks this is a terrible thing
and that several developers will 'drop out' because of it. If I may,
let me state while I think it is a good thing and maybe with enough
discussion we can raise everyones awareness of the issues.
When the Amiga first came out, in October of 1985, the words from press
and general microcomputer using population was "Yawn, neat demos but it
can't do anything." Some people, like our good friend Ed, new that the
machine was powerful but got extremely frustrated because the things that
he wanted to do were impossible. Fortunately everyone who liked to program
and new neatness when they saw it bought one and started writing all sorts
of neat little programs for it. Now, it is 1987, and Commodore is apparently
going to re-introduce the Amiga to the general computer audience. What
they have done to make it attractive to the generic PC user is to offer
them a bundle of programs that they would find useful. In the area of
hardware they essentially offer two machines.
The Amiga 2000 - Expandable, optionally PC compatible *NOW*, with cheaper
harddisks available, and with future growth to a 68020.
The Amiga 500 - Expandable (but not as easily), minorly PC compatible (with
the transformer), expensive harddisks available, but a low entry price.
Now after looking at the neat Demos when the customer say's "Thats great,
but what can it DO?" The dealer can really offer word processing, spreadsheets,
creative tools, and some data bases. There is actually decent software out
there now, and with this bundling deal they can give someone some programs
that do what they are most likely to want to do, for a damn good price. And
*that* can be the difference between a PC-Klone sale, and an Amiga sale. Sure
Joe User can buy an AT-clone for the same price as an Amiga 2000, but all
this other stuff would put him over the top as far as software goes.
This should dramatically increase the saleability of Amigas. That increases
the installed base, and as a developer that increases your potential revenue.
But you argue, "I was working on Whiz-Paint and now everyone gets Deluxe
Paint with this bundle that *decreases* my potential revenue." To which I
would argue that it does not. Even while Deluxe Paint has a > 75% penetration
into the Amiga market, people still buy Aegis Images. Why? Because everyone
is different and there is always a way to improve on something. And now,
with the 50% more Amigas out there you get 50% more bucks for the same
amount of market penetration.
And what about Atari? The Mega ST could be trouble if Atari gets it's act
together. Why? Because they have Mac compatibility now, which is a feature,
and if the add multitasking the people in the world who thought the IBM
Color Graphics Adapter was state of the art will opt for it's lower price.
I see the 'bundle' as being a real sore spot for Atari because it makes the
Amiga more 'Mac like' with a word processor and a paint program, than PC
like. And a lot of people percieve Mac's as being classier than IBMs.
So to wind down, and to give me a chance to don my Asbestos Free heat suit,
I think that the bundles are a great idea, and will only help the Amiga
market and the Developers. Bob, and others please enlighten me, as to why
this is the end of the earth. I really want to know.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) (08/04/87)
in article <13635@topaz.rutgers.edu>, lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Gerard Lachac) says: $ In article <17701UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: $>The Amiga Dealer here in Erie PA just showed me something pretty $>interesting--there is a software bundle deal coming for the A500. $>I haven't got the exact deals here in front of me, but most of this $>is correct. $> $>For $199 you get $> Wordperfect $> MaxiPlan 500 $> SuperBase $> Diga! $> DeluxePaint II $> CLIMate $ $ Whoa, where's my credit card! Your telling me that someday soon new A500 $ users will be able to get about $600 worth of software for $200?? $ THIS one I'll believe when I see it. $ I ain't holding my breath. Well, I'm the treasurer and Technical Consultant for the Acadiana Commodore Computer Club, and I can definitely say that yes, Commodore asked us for our mailing list, which we sent them, and yes, a week after that, Commodore sent us the details of the offer, which are close to what is mentioned above (I believe the price mentioned was $299, though -- unfortunately, I sent my copy of the letter to the newsletter editor so she could put it in the next edition). Unless someone stole a bunch of stationary from West Chester and started sending fake mail, I must assume that Commodore is serious about this offer. Note that it is ONLY available to user group members, and it is too late to join your local user group now -- we already sent in our mailing lists! Commodore supposedly is going to directly mail the actual certificates etc. to the people on the mailing list. All in all, it seems like a pretty good way to get the Commodore 64/Commodore 128 people to upgrade to the Amiga 500... most of them have been saying "Yeah, an Amiga would be nice, but what about all our SOFTWARE that we've spent years accumulating?!". -- Eric Green elg%usl.CSNET Ollie North for President: {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg A man we can believe (in). Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 BBS phone #: 318-984-3854 300/1200 baud
kent@xanth.UUCP (Kent Paul Dolan) (08/04/87)
In article <19938@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> robinson@renoir.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Michael Robinson) writes: >In article <18543@cca.CCA.COM> rtolly@CCA.CCA.COM.UUCP (Bob Tolly) writes: >>I agree with Bob Page - this will not encourage people to develop >>software for the Amiga. The prices are such that it would be >>hard not to buy one or the other package, even if one doesn't >>want everything in it, and that will close a good portion >>of the market for competitors of these products. > >I'm not so sure that this is the case. As it is, I am somewhat suprised >by the frequency of comments to the effect of "product A does this really >well, product B does this other really well, but to get any work done, >you really need both" when discussing Amiga software. I suppose this is >fostered by the wide degree of data interchangeability. > >The point being that, although a significant market share will disappear >for certain types of programs, the market will not disappear entirely. Take, >for example, the continued market presence of terminal programs despite the >availability of VT100 2.6 for free. This reduced market share for >developers has to be weighed against the phenomenal sales of 500's that >will undoubtably result. Smaller share, but bigger pie. Is it worth it? >Just a thought. (Here I am, still holding this Commodore common stock, see...) Didn't we learn a lesson when Apple tried this with the Mac? You bundle a moderately good package really cheap with the purchase of the hardware, and all development work in that area comes to a complete halt. Do we really think that Deluxe Paint II is the last word in paint programs? More important, what kind of a response is this to Aegis for all the fine work they have done on Images and follow on software, giving a tremendous boost to Amiga 1000 sales, to suddenly cut them off at the knees by bundling a competitors product with the hardware? If Commodore does this, they will get a short term boost in sales, but the long term result will be stagnant software development, and a machine perceived by the potential purchasers as past the exciting part of its life cycle, and therefore on a downhill slide. I mean, the proposed packages have pretty well blown away all but the games market. Talk about your excellent way to be thought of as a games machine; what else will be the perception if all that is left of the software development effort is games makers? As a user about to buy a machine, I guess I'd get pretty excited about such a bundle, but as a developer, I'd much rather see a bundle that says: choose one from each of ( textcraft, scribble,... ), ( Deluxe Paint II, Aegis Images,...), (Lattice C, Aztek C, ...), (TDI, Benchmark, ...), ...[sorry if I don't know all the players' names], so that the market was still open to all the competent packages. Better still not to bundle at all, and thereby avoid damaging the software (and thus ultimately the hardware) market with biased economics. I think it would do a lot less damage to bundle an assortment of the really snazzy games, since games are what most folks get into first when they get the box home. Let each games house nominate their best example game, as a come on to sell more games. Unlike editors, databases, or spreadsheets, games don't directly eliminate the competition by making a sale; in fact, selling one great game probably promotes the sale of the next one [Hey, EA, Where's my Bard's Tale II?] both by the same vendor, and by other vendors with a good reputation, so probably no-one on the developers' side would feel the goring of their ox quite so painfully as on the productivity and business and programming sides. While I'm chiding CBM, are you guys ever going to get us a debugged AmigaBASIC? If not, please unbundle it so that the market will open to competition. I was appalled to get my 1.2 upgrade and see not one word about fixes to the bugs and disfeatures of AmigaBASIC. This is a prime example of why not to bundle software. What impetus has EA to debug Deluse paint II, say, if they are already guaranteed a sale with every Amiga? They have already saturated the market. Similarly, why should Microsoft provide an IFF save and restore capability in AmigaBASIC, or fix the long integer multiply bug? It won't increase their sales one whit. As a stockholder (albeit pretty small potatoes) I see the bundling decision as a way to damage the long term health of the Amiga product line, and recommend against it in the strongest terms. I didn't mind the precipitous price drop after the management massacre; the market always overreacts to shakeups, and it may (or may not, I'm in no position to judge) have been a perfectly sound business decision. On the other hand, with the example of the Mac software market, which only recovered when software bundling with the Mac stopped, CBM has plenty of evidence that this is a _bad_ decision, and should avoid it like the plague. The word we have over the net from Europe is that the 500 is selling itself. Why mess up a good thing? [Exit soapbox.] Kent, the man from xanth. -- Kent Paul Dolan, LCDR, NOAA, Retired; ODU MSCS grad student // Yet UUCP : kent@xanth.UUCP or ...{sun,harvard}!xanth!kent // Another CSNET : kent@odu.csnet ARPA : kent@xanth.cs.odu.edu \\ // Happy USPost: P.O. Box 1559, Norfolk, Virginia 23501-1559 \// Amigan! Voice : (804) 587-7760 -=][> Last one to Ceres is a rotten egg! -=][> Show me a religion which has NEVER been used as an excuse to commit murder, and I'll give up ethical atheism. Until then, it is to laugh.
rtolly@cca.CCA.COM (Bob Tolly) (08/04/87)
In article <2768@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com> eric@hector (Eric Lavitsky) writes: >I believe that the bundled packages mentioned are part of a one >time, one machine per *User Group* deal. It still may leave people >feeling left out, but that would make it not so bad, no? > Actually, there are two separate deals, both described in the same mailing. One is a one machine (system actually) per user group. However, the user group is asked to send in their mailing list, so that the bundled package deal may be offered to each member by direct mail. Bob
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (08/05/87)
There seems to be a lot of confusion and distress about the new user's group
promotion. Please read the words! This is a nice, but very limited promotion
designed to put an A500 and software in the claws of each "Commodore" (ya know,
C64/C128/etc) users group and their members. One demo system per group, one
software bundle for each member that buys an A500 within the 75 day period.
This may not sound like much, but note that there are something like 750 such
groups in existance.
Lists of the participating dealers and user's groups are available for the cost
of postage for any developers or marketers not included who would like to gain
some direct benefit from the promotion.
Anyhow, here is a slightly edited description of the promotion that was
intended to explain things to dealers and developers:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMODORE USER GROUP PROMO
==========================
Commodore USA has announced two exclusive offers being made to recognized
Commodore User groups and their members.
THE USER GROUP OFFER
====================
The GROUP is offered the opportunity to buy ONE Amiga system per group
consisting of:
A500 computer with
A501 (512k extra memory)
A1080 monitor
A1020 5.25in drive with Transformer s/w
A1680 modem
Price is $999.95. Purchase is direct from CBM, certified cheque in advance
and is only being offreed until 30 Aug 1987. To be eligible, the group must
have provided an up-to-date list of members.
Each group will also receive 10 PD disks, three free magazines, some technical
info, a software list and AmigaMail. About 750 User's Groups are eligible.
THE USER GROUP MEMBER OFFER
===========================
Each member of a participating User Group will be notified of the member offer
by direct mail within about the next two weeks. (Mailings to dealers and the
group presidents have all ready been made.) The member who purchases an Amiga
500 from a participating dealer is eligible to buy ONE of two special software
packs at a special offer price.
Pack A costs the member $99 and consists of DPaint II, Aegis Animator,
Marble Madness, Texcraft Plus, Pagesetter and an Epyx joystick.
Pack B costs the member $199 and contains Pagesetter Deluxe, Maxiplan 500,
Superbase Personal, Word Perfect, CLI Mate, Diga, and Deluxe Video.
This promotion will run from 15 Aug to 31 Oct 1987 at Participating dealers.
WHAT'S IN IT FOR YOU
====================
The objective of the User Group Promo is to develop a large installed
base of Amiga 500s fast. This means more potential customers for your own
products. Remember that it is one or the other on the software packs.
To help you reach this audience we have prepared the lists of participating
groups and dealers. To get your copy, send a large (9x12inch) SAE (self-
adressed envelop) stamped with 4 first class stamps to Lauren Brown at CATS
usual address. Mark the envelop CUG LISTS.
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV
Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (08/05/87)
In article <2172@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes:
<There seems to be a lot of confusion and distress about the new user's group
<promotion. Please read the words! This is a nice, but very limited promotion
<designed to put an A500 and software in the claws of each "Commodore" (ya know,
<C64/C128/etc) users group and their members. One demo system per group, one
<software bundle for each member that buys an A500 within the 75 day period.
<This may not sound like much, but note that there are something like 750 such
<groups in existance.
I'm confused. This looks like an *excellent* way to get a lot of
Amigas into users hands. What's Commodore doing doing something like
that? :-).
Congrats to CBM for coming up with such a good way to convince
C64/C128/Vic-20 (yeah, I still know a few) owners to upgrade to an
Amiga. I hope it works as well or better than I think it will.
<mike
--
How many times do you have to fall Mike Meyer
While people stand there gawking? mwm@berkeley.edu
How many times do you have to fall ucbvax!mwm
Before you end up walking? mwm@ucbjade.BITNETlishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) (08/05/87)
It seems to me that the opponents to Commodore's short Bundled
Software plans are over-reacting a little bit. As information posted
to the net from a Commodore person has shown, this is an *extremely*
limited offer. Moreover, you have to belong to a User Group to get
the deal in the first place.
Now, suppose you are someone like me, who is interested enough in the
Amiga (I have been following it since the very first machines came
out, with several of my friends being either associated with major
Amiga magazines as well as owning some of the FIRST development
systems out there) but, being a student, do not have enough money YET
to buy one (although I am scraping the bottom of my barrel to buy an
A500 soon). Also, since I am a student without an Amiga, I have not
yet officially JOINED a user-group, even though I have been to
meetings of the local one. However, I have read the net (because of
the good discussions on the machine) for quite a while now, just to
keep up on the good and bad points, and because I like to know what
Commodore is up to (I own a c64 and a very old VIC20).
Looking at these bundled software packages I say "WOW! that is a
really good deal!" However, I can not get one, since I am not
associated officially with any user group. ***ONLY*** those in user
groups will be offered the deal, and ***ONLY*** if they buy an A500
within the next 75 days (pretty limiting). But who is in these user
groups right now? People who already own other Amigas, mostly 1000's
I would assume. Now, it seems to me that what Commodore may be doing
is giving those with an A1000 an excuse to go out and save a lot of
money by converting to an A500 and getting a lot of nearly free
software that would otherwise be rather expensive. Look at the math:
-Point: user group member already has an A1000, so has no
reason to buy an A500
-Fact: Commodore comes up with this nifty bundled software
pasckage, something like what follows:
1) Pay ~$100, get ~$600 worth of popular software
2) Must buy an A500 to get this deal.
So, the user group member can figure on the following:
-if he buys an A500, he will be *more* compatible with
Commodore's future machines ('cause we all seem to believe
that there will soon be a LOT of A500's out there)
-Now this user group member can get a great savings on
software as well as have an excuse to upgrade to the
(soon to be) most popular Amiga model for the same price
(approx.) that he would otherwise spend on the machine
alone:
Without bundled software With bundled software
------------------------ ---------------------
A500 = about $600 A500 = about $600
software = about $600 software = about $100
Total -------- Total ------
$1200 $700
It looks to me like the user group member has a really good excuse to
upgrade (downgrade?) to an A500, because it would would cost him as
much as all that software he wanted to buy anyway. Note that the user
group member also has ALL of the periferals needed, because he probably
has an A1000 with those periferals, so he has no need to buy any extra
equipment. Also note that he gets an even BETTER savings with package
number two, which is only ~$200 (I used package number one above).
So where does that leave everybody? Well, for the normal, non-user
group member like myself, we still need to go buy the A500 at normal
cost, and we get no discounts on software. For the user group member
with an A100, he can now upgrade to the A500 and get a good amount of
software real cheap, all for the price of an A500 alone. For
Commodore, they now have quite a few more A500 owners out there, and
can focus on the A500 as the new mass-market machine (bye-bye c64, and
maybe even A100).
For the developers I don't see that much of a problem (although I am
not a developer). Sure, a lot of user group members will now have the
same pieces of software, but then again there will be a lot more
machines out there (i.e. A500's). So the developer can concentrate on
getting his stuff to work primarily on the A500, without having to
worry that much about incompatibilites with the A1000 (although a good
product will work the same on both machines). And in all honesty,
some of those programs aren't that hot. I've have used Aegis Animator
on a room-mate's system for many hours, and it really isn't all that
hot. The new video programs will probably do a LOT more than Aegis
Animator. Marble Madness may be a good game, but I've gotten bored
playing my friend's version for only a few hours (now, if they bundled
either Starglider or Faery Tale Adventure, THAT would be something!).
Textcraft is nice, but I would be more worried about all those
Wordperfects going out in bundle number 2; then again, I have not seen
a really *AMAZING* word processor on the Amiga yet, so I think that
there is much room for improvement (although Wordperfect just may be
that word processor). From what people have told me, Pagesetter is
already the pinnacle of page layout programs, and has the market well
sewn up without the bundling. As for the other software, I do have
any experience with it, so I can't comment there.
The real thing that worries me is the downfall of the A1000, which
seems to me is sort of happening here. I still prefer it over the
A500 and A2000, but it seems that Commodore wants to move on and
slowly phase out the A1000 (even though it is compatible with the
other machines). It seems that this deal is an effort to do just
that. I am faced with the choice of buying a friend's A1000 (he is
upgrading to an A2000) or getting a new A500. I would like the A1000,
but I think (unfortunately) that the A500 is the way to go (especially
considering how many of them will be out there soon).
One final comment: the bundled software with the Apple Macintosh was
available to everyone, so that puts it in a different league than
Commodore's limited A500 software bundling. Comparing the seems to me
like comparing watermelons and walnuts.
Sorry about the length...I just got carried away again. I've got my
flame-proof BVD's on now, so go ahead and fry me to a singe about what
I wrote above. All included above is just speculation, and there is
always the possiblity that I am completely and undeniably wrong [how
is that for a disclaimer? :-) ]
--
Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp
Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu
\{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishkarichard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (08/05/87)
Yeah, I have to agree here. Bundling all that good software can only help.
It causes potential buyers to regard the Amiga as a more 'serious' machine.
So what about the guy who was gonna write a paint program but gave up
because 'everybodty has Dpaint' ? So improve on it dummy ! Make it
do things Dpaint doesnt do. Make a Dpaint for HAM and EHB modes. Handle
24 bit color in software, and display in any old mode you feel like, but
print true color. If you want to get fancy you could sequence images through
(Liquid Lights' for example) a film recoder and get outstanding images.
Even if a program has only a couple of features Dpaint or whatever doesnt
have, people will still buy it, because if you are serious about graphic
arts, you want ALL the tools you can get. I prefer Dpaint, but I really like
the color handling in Images.
As Bill Volk and Keith Doyle pointed out at the big user group meeting at
SIGGRAPH, If you are serious about video, you will want to get ALL the programs
you have seen here tonight.
There is room for everyone.
--
Richard Sexton
INTERNET: richard@gryphon.CTS.COM
UUCP: {akgua, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, ihnp4, nosc}!crash!gryphon!richard
"It's too dark to put the key in my ignition..."cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (08/05/87)
One of the more interesting facets of the bundled software deal is that
the retail price on the total set of packages in group B is about $1200.
So you could reword the agreement to the effect, buy these six packages
(or however many it is) at list price, and then get an Amiga 500 for free.
Makes it a little easier to rationalize adding a 500 to the collection,
and then when Jet comes out I can go multiplayer mode!
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (08/06/87)
in article <2172@cbmvax.UUCP>, grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) says: > > There seems to be a lot of confusion and distress about the new user's group > promotion. Please read the words! This is a nice, but very limited promotion > designed to put an A500 and software in the claws of each "Commodore" (ya know > C64/C128/etc) users group and their members. Ok, it's a great deal, but where does this leave my user's group? We are an Amiga only group that has been active for about a year, but we've never bothered to get "officially recognized" by Commodore. As an officer of our group I've already been getting questions about this bundled software deal. What do we have to do to get official recognition from Commodore, and will that make our members eligible? Or are we out in the cold on this one? -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 540 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 UUCP Address: {ihnp4,ucbvax,decvax,allegra}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne Alternates: {ihnp4,seismo}!utah-cs!utah-gr!uplherc!esunix!blgardne seismo!usna!esunix!blgardne
john13@garfield.UUCP (08/07/87)
[] Well, this all sounds good to me. I think we all know that people won't be greatly motivated to buy a system if the bundled software is low-grade (eg Graphicraft, Textcraft), and if Joe Guru wants to write a better program in one of the categories covered by the bundle, then I'm sure CBM will take due note and offer him the opportunity to be in the next deal. Of course, the decision on which titles to include is somewhat subjective, but hey, that's life. It is only a limited time offer, right? And only available to user group members? So it isn't like every single A500 owner is going to be forced to get the software too. What I want to know is... what is the status WRT Canadian user's groups? Ours is registered with Commodore, but we haven't heard any noises about the offer aside from the net and a mysterious ad in "Commodore" magazine. My dream, of course, is that the deal would be offered retroactively to all A1000 buyers as a note of thanks for their "act of good faith" in Commodore by investing when the going was shaky. That would definitely be a big boost for the Commodore fan club :-). John, Vice President, Pleasantville Commodore User's Group -- "I would have promised those terrorists a TRIP TO DISNEYLAND if it would have gotten the hostages released. I thank God they were satisfied with the missiles and we didn't have to go to that extreme." -- preliminary draft of Ollie's testimony
mb@munnari.oz (Michael Bednarek) (08/10/87)
In article <3862@garfield.UUCP> john13@garfield.UUCP (John Russell) writes: > [...] >What I want to know is... what is the status WRT Canadian user's groups? And what about us poor relatives Down Under? The Melbourne Amiga Users Group, Inc., had ~650 members prior to yesterday's meeting (does that make us the second largest AUG?). So far, we haven't heard anything about this (or about anything else, for that matter) from C-A Aus. Will this deal be available in oz?
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (08/10/87)
In article <1776@munnari.oz> mb@munnari.oz (Michael Bednarek) writes: > In article <3862@garfield.UUCP> john13@garfield.UUCP (John Russell) writes: > > [...] > >What I want to know is... what is the status WRT Canadian user's groups? > > And what about us poor relatives Down Under? > > The Melbourne Amiga Users Group, Inc., had ~650 members prior to yesterday's > meeting (does that make us the second largest AUG?). > > So far, we haven't heard anything about this (or about anything else, for > that matter) from C-A Aus. > > Will this deal be available in oz? The answer is....maybe. Each national or regional sales organization has a fair degree of freedom when it comes to actually selling the equipment and what promotions to run. I'd suggest that some of your users' group officers get in touch with Commodore Australia and try to impress upon them the benefit of doing something like this. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
duncan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Shan D Duncan) (12/15/89)
Just noticed an article that mentioned TeX by Radical Eye software was being bundled with the NeXT computer as of version 1.0. Knowing how some inaccuracies creep into the best of copy... (hmmm Time, Rolling stone come to mind :-) ). I was wondering if this was reported accurately. If so could we see AmigaTeX bundled with the higher end amigas - the A3000? Gee TeX amd ReXX and ... Having a stable version of TeX was a major reason why I finally went out and got an amiga.
murphy@pur-phy (William J. Murphy) (12/15/89)
Seeing as how our NeXT arrived just two days ago, The answer to the question is yes, TeX is bundled with the NeXT. There is also a previewer that is bundled so you can work in display postcript. We are just getting our harddrive up, so I can't say much about how well the previewer compares to the one I have for AmigaTeX, but in a few weeks I should be able to comment on its utility. The NeXT as it is sold with only a single hardrive doesn't really have the space to make TeX. But even so it is a very nice piece of machinery inspite of what AmigaWhirl thinks. Lots of Holiday Cheer, -- Bill Murphy murphy@newton.physics.purdue.edu