"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (11/03/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 4821; Thu 2-Nov-89 15:21:01 PST Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 15:20 PST From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> Subject: wishful? I want to write an amiga disk from a sparcstation... To: "eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM Message-ID: <19891102232037.2.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> Is this wishful thinking? We just got our first Sun SPARCstation here and I was wondering if there's any chance of getting its 3.5 inch disk drive to write some files onto a disk in amiga format (or something which I could read on my amiga). Even writing to PC format and reading that with the amiga would work. Am I crazy or what? monty kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com
GORRIEDE@UREGINA1.BITNET (Dennis Robert Gorrie) (11/09/89)
Sell your Amiga and buy a SparcStation to use at home. Your problems are solved! :-)
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (11/15/89)
Received: from GEORG.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 6474; Mon 13-Nov-89 16:39:44 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 89 16:39 PST From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> Subject: Re: wishful? I want to write an amiga disk from a sparcstation... To: "eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM In-Reply-To: <8911101430.AA01633@abalon.se> Message-ID: <19891114003936.5.KOSMA@GEORG.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> I had a request or two to follow up on my findings on how to write an amiga disk from a Sun workstation. Here's my findings: The easiest way to effect a transfer of files between a sparcstation and an amiga is to buy the Sun product DOS-windows which allows among other things reading and writing MS-DOS format disks on the SPARC's internal 3.5 inch drive. Then, on the amiga end, I plan to use CrossDOS (I think that's what it's called) to read the MS-DOS format files onto the amiga. Definitely not ideal, and not really cheap (fortunately there's other reasons for us to get DOS-windows at work so the $500 or whatever is covered) but it seems that this will do (much better than Kermit, at least!). monty kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/20/89)
In <4120@nigel.udel.EDU>, "kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com writes: >The easiest way to effect a transfer of files between a sparcstation and >an amiga is to buy the Sun product DOS-windows which allows among other >things reading and writing MS-DOS format disks on the SPARC's internal >3.5 inch drive. Then, on the amiga end, I plan to use CrossDOS (I think >that's what it's called) to read the MS-DOS format files onto the amiga. >Definitely not ideal, and not really cheap (fortunately there's other >reasons for us to get DOS-windows at work so the $500 or whatever is >covered) but it seems that this will do (much better than Kermit, at >least!). I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation, but not the other way around. -larry -- My name is OS/2, Mandius, Kludge of Kludges. Look upon my works, ye CS majors, and gag. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
toivo@uniwa.uwa.oz (Toivo Pedaste) (11/22/89)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the >SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read >them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation, >but not the other way around. I've had no problem with writing 720k disks on a SPARCstation for reading on the amiga. I did originally format them on the amiga. -- Toivo Pedaste ACSNET: toivo@uniwa.uwa.oz
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/22/89)
In <821@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca>, lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the >SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read >them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation, >but not the other way around. Larry, you silly twit. Take a look at the spec for the drive before you post something liek this again. The SPARCStation drive is indeed capable of reading and writing both 1.4 meg and 720K doskettes. -larry -- My name is OS/2, Mandius, Kludge of Kludges. Look upon my works, ye CS majors, and gag. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (11/23/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 7591; Tue 21-Nov-89 15:20:58 PST Date: Tue, 21 Nov 89 15:20 PST From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> Subject: Re: wishful? I want to write an amiga disk from a sparcstation... To: "Eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM In-Reply-To: <821@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> Message-ID: <19891121232008.3.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM> In <4120@nigel.udel.EDU>, "kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com writes: >The easiest way to effect a transfer of files between a sparcstation and >an amiga is to buy the Sun product DOS-windows which allows among other >things reading and writing MS-DOS format disks on the SPARC's internal >3.5 inch drive. Then, on the amiga end, I plan to use CrossDOS (I think >that's what it's called) to read the MS-DOS format files onto the amiga. >Definitely not ideal, and not really cheap (fortunately there's other >reasons for us to get DOS-windows at work so the $500 or whatever is >covered) but it seems that this will do (much better than Kermit, at >least!). I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation, but not the other way around. -larry well, from what our Sun rep says, at least, the DOS-windows package on the SPARCstation will allow us to read and write standard MS-DOG disks on the internal sparcstation drive. I'm right now looking at the Sun DOS windows product sheet, which says "You'll be able to load DOS programs, and read and write DOS or UNIX files through standard floppy disk drives." Unless I and the Sun people I've talked to are mistaken about this, it should then be fairly easy to use CrossDOS to read stuff to the amiga. Anyway, this thread is getting a bit off of the relevant subject matter of comp.sys.amiga... monty kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (11/24/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 7761; Wed 22-Nov-89 17:45:54 PST
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 89 17:44 PST
From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: wishful? I want to write an amiga disk from a sparcstation...
To: "Eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM
In-Reply-To: <1989Nov22.015959.1279@uniwa.uwa.oz>
Message-ID: <19891123014459.1.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Date: Wed, 22-Nov-89 01:16:25-PST
Date: 22 Nov 89 01:59:59 GMT
From: Toivo Pedaste <toivo%uniwa.uwa.OZ@uunet.UU.NET>
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes:
>I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the
>SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read
>them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation,
>but not the other way around.
I've had no problem with writing 720k disks on a SPARCstation for reading
on the amiga. I did originally format them on the amiga.
--
Toivo Pedaste ACSNET: toivo@uniwa.uwa.oz
So, how did you do it? Could you outline the process, software used,
etc. ? Did you go the MS-DOS route or write straight to an
amiga-formatted (880K) disk? What sw did you use on the sparcstation
end of things?
Thanks!
monty
kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.commyb100@csc.anu.oz (11/25/89)
In article <4732@nigel.udel.EDU>, "kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com writes: > > lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > > >I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the > >SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read > >them though, so you might be able to transfer files from Amiga to SPARCStation, > >but not the other way around. > > I've had no problem with writing 720k disks on a SPARCstation for reading > on the amiga. I did originally format them on the amiga. > -- > Toivo Pedaste ACSNET: toivo@uniwa.uwa.oz > > So, how did you do it? Could you outline the process, software used, > etc. ? Did you go the MS-DOS route or write straight to an > amiga-formatted (880K) disk? What sw did you use on the sparcstation > end of things? > > Thanks! > > monty > kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com Now I can answer this question. Thank you to Toivo for the info, and I've just spent a few happy hours sneaking through FTPland :-) On the SPARCstation you need MTOOLS, which allows you to write MSDOS disks on the internal drive - it allows you to choose any of the standard MSDOS formats, one of which is DS/DD 720k 3.5in disks. where: look in usenet/comp.sources.unix/volume11/mtools on xanth.cs.odu.edu [128.82.8.1] - two files. On the Amiga you need: PCUtils (on your Extras disk), and PCpatch. The latter will allow you to modify PCutils to work on 3.5inch disks rather than 5.25in. In particular you want to modify PCformat which formats the disk to 720k, 80 track, 9sectors. where: look in usenet/comp.binaries.amiga/volume89/util again on xanth.cs.odu.edu for pcpatch2.uu1.Z (which is compressed, shar'ed, uuencoded and zoo'ed. whew !) and also you need the CrossDOS demo which allows you to read MSDOS disks in your internal drive. where: Fish disk 240, I got it from etana.tut.fi [218.214.1.1] in amiga/fish/ff240 - one file, just zoo'ed. (Actually xanth might have it too, but the link to xanth was flakey and slow so I tried etana) So all you need to do is format a 3.5 inch disk with PCformat, write whatever you want on it on the SPARCstation with MTools and read it on your Amiga with CrossDOS - even works for binaries. Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried this yet, I only just got the files. Thanks again to Toivo. Now a quick question in return: According to the documentation that comes with MTOOLS, you can modify the (provided) source to write *any* type of DOS disk, provided you have the useful info on how the disk is structured. Strikes me that all some kind soul needs to do (not me - too busy FTPing animations all the time :-) ) is to modify the format file to write AmigaDOS disks directly ! What is needed is the following (I think) FAT#1 (whatever that is) FAT#2 (ditto) fat_length (hmmm....) DIR (sector number where directory sits) dir_length (and how long it is) cluster_size (?) number_of_clusters (?) Disclaimer#2: I'm not a DOS guru - life could be much more complicated - I can mail the MTOOLS documentation to anybody who wants it or post it here. Thank you for reading this far, sorry about the length. Markus Buchhorn Mt Stromlo Observatory, Canberra, Australia markus@mso.anu.oz.au -or- nssdca::psi%mssso::markus
jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) (12/01/89)
In article <1058.256ea432@csc.anu.oz> myb100@csc.anu.oz writes: >Thanks again to Toivo. Now a quick question in return: According to the >documentation that comes with MTOOLS, you can modify the (provided) source >to write *any* type of DOS disk, provided you have the useful info on how >the disk is structured. Strikes me that all some kind soul needs to do >(not me - too busy FTPing animations all the time :-) ) is to >modify the format file to write AmigaDOS disks directly ! It really should have said "any MS-DOS compatible disk", not "any DOS". > What is needed is the following (I think) > FAT#1 (whatever that is) > FAT#2 (ditto) > fat_length (hmmm....) AmigaDOS does not have a FAT. (A bitmap is not the same as a FAT chain.) > cluster_size (?) > number_of_clusters (?) AmigaDOS does not use clusters. > DIR (sector number where directory sits) > dir_length (and how long it is) It's one block in the middle of the disk, 72 words long. Question: How does AmigaDOS put all those big long file names into 1 block? Answer: It uses hash chains instead of a linear search. Question: What?? Answer: Instead of having the names in the directory, it has pointers to other blocks which have the names and pointers to more blocks. Question: What good is that? Answer: Check comp.sys.amiga.tech - there were several articles on this subject during the week of November 27th. Question: Does that mean the directory handling routines in MTOOLS would have to be rewritten from scratch? Answer: Yep Also, AmigaDOS puts 880K on a floppy on the same floppy that MS-DOS can only put 720K onto. Instead of using 9 sectors per track and leaving nice inter-sector gaps that the floppy controller needs to be able to rewrite a single sector without disturbing the other sectors, the Amiga uses basically one sector per track with 11 logical blocks. Not only that, but the start of this giant sector does not always match up with the beginning of the track. Most floppy disk controller chips get extremely upset at the AmigaDOS format. I suppose the Sparcstation could process this data if the CPU gave 100% of its attention to reading/writing the raw data bits. The Amiga has its custom chips to do that sort of dirtywork without burdening the CPU. -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: JMS@F74.TYMNET.COM or jms@gemini.tymnet.com BT Tymnet Net Tech Serv | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-D21 | PDP-10 support: My car's license plate is "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | humorous dislaimer: "My Amiga speaks for me."
tom@.UUCP (Tom van Peer) (12/05/89)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <4120@nigel.udel.EDU>, "kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com writes: [ some stuff deleted ] >I'd have to check to make sure, but I _think_ the internal floppy drive on the >SPARCStation is incapable of writing 720K diskettes. I believe it will read I think it is capable. If you use Double Density diskettes you will get an error (after a while !) with format because it tries to format as High Density. But if you use the -L option it will format as Double Density. So at least you can get the format right. I don't know about actually writing to the diskettes. tar is not a problem but I am not sure about the DOS emulator since I never used it. -- Tom van Peer. Parallel Computin, Amsterdam. E-mail: tom@parcom.uucp
"kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM"@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com (12/18/89)
Received: from BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM by ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 10938; Fri 15-Dec-89 15:06:09 PST
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 89 15:05 PST
From: Montgomery Kosma <kosma@ALAN.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Re: wishful? I want to write an amiga disk from a sparcstation...
To: "Eagle::amiga-relay%udel.edu"@KAHUNA.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM
In-Reply-To: <1058.256ea432@csc.anu.oz>
Message-ID: <19891215230551.3.KOSMA@BLAISE.LAAC-AI.Dialnet.Symbolics.COM>
Date: Sat, 25-Nov-89 01:10:22-PST
Date: 25 Nov 89 14:39:46 GMT
From: myb100%csc.anu.OZ@uunet.UU.NET
Now I can answer this question. Thank you to Toivo for the info, and I've just
spent a few happy hours sneaking through FTPland :-)
On the SPARCstation you need MTOOLS, which allows you to write MSDOS disks on
the internal drive - it allows you to choose any of the standard MSDOS
formats, one of which is DS/DD 720k 3.5in disks.
where: look in usenet/comp.sources.unix/volume11/mtools on
xanth.cs.odu.edu [128.82.8.1] - two files.
[etc. deleted]
okay, I'm back from my honeymoon and ready to continue this discussion I
started...I got MTOOLS also, but found that it requires something in
/dev (I think...I haven't looked at unix in >3 years) which is basically
a device driver for the 3.5" floppy. looking on the sparcstation, it
doesn't seem as if I have the right file that MTOOLS is looking for.
Any ideas? Has anybody got this (MTOOLS) to work yet? What do I need
to do to at least find out whether or not I have the right device driver
for the drive?
Thanks!
monty
kosma@alan.kahuna.decnet.lockheed.com