skipper@xroads.UUCP (Skipper Smith) (05/07/89)
I could not figure out a way to localize this to the Maryland/D.C. area, so if you don't live in that area, please forgive me. I am moving to the Silver Springs area of Maryland and would like to find a good (read reputable and reasonable) dealer in that area. This could extend from D.C. to Columbia. I would be greatly appreciative if someone could lead me in the right direction before I get there. Also, does anyone know of a good feed for USENET in that area (direct would be preferred over the various pay-for services). Thanks in advance. Skipper Smith Motorola Technical Training Tempe, AZ (Soon of Columbia, MD) -- \ / C r o s s r o a d s C o m m u n i c a t i o n s /\ (602) 941-2005 300|1200 Baud 24 hrs/day / \ hplabs!hp-sdd!crash!xroads!skipper
rhunt@icard.med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) (12/01/89)
While I was home for the Thanksgiving break I ran across a new computer store in the local mall. It looked like the standard MOSS-DOS store so I thought I would go and rattle the cage of the salesman about the Amiga. I asked him if they carried the Amiga expecting to have to explain that it wasn't a Taiwanese clone. He said he didn't but that he would like to but C= required that he buy 50 Amigas a month. We had a bit of a discussion where he made some bogus claims about multitasking on low memory clones but otherwise he seemed to know his stuff. He seemed to be genuinely interested in carrying the Amiga but I come from an area near a city of about 30,000. There would be no way that he could move 50 Amigas a month and probably could barely move 50 of a clone brand each month. 1) Is the new dealer policy to have every dealer buy 50 Amigas a month or was he just yanking my chain? 2) If it is true, would this put a lot of good small Amiga dealships that aren't near large population centers in a bind generating a bit of ill will? Most of these guys were the ones that got the Amiga where is is today. The dealer from whom I bought my 2000 no longer carries the Amiga because of some undisclosed policy problem. They have gone to MOSS-DOS clones like a million others. They had decent prices and great service and repair. Now the nearest dealership is Software Etc. 35 miles away. 3) If it is true, is there some way that the number of machines the dealer would have to buy could be based on the population within say 20 miles and the number of other dealers in the area? Maybe they could have an amount for large, medium and small dealers. I hate to lose those good "hole-in-the-wall" dealers who like the computer and support it but can't move 50 a month. Ignorant of business, Rick Hunt rhunt@med.unc.edu PS. I was trying to put together a beginners disk to give to the Software Etc. so they could copy it and bundle it with their Amigas. This was so they could put a sign up that said "5 DISKS OF FREE SOFTWARE WITH THE PURCHASE OF EVERY AMIGA". It was going to have PD and shareware and a promo for our user group TAU. I had written a short note explaining the concept of shareware, why piracy hurt the software market, and why user groups were useful. The store refused to take it if it had any shareware because they are afraid that the authors might sue if they made money on a computer by giving away their software. I tried to explain to them why this was not a problem but they would not listen. Am I wrong or could this be a problem? I am also ignorant of the law >:-).
king@cell.mot.COM (Steven King) (12/02/89)
In article <60@uncmed.med.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes: >PS. I was trying to put together a beginners disk to give to the Software >Etc. so they could copy it and bundle it with their Amigas. This was so >they could put a sign up that said "5 DISKS OF FREE SOFTWARE WITH THE >PURCHASE OF EVERY AMIGA". It was going to have PD and shareware and a >promo for our user group TAU. I had written a short note explaining the >concept of shareware, why piracy hurt the software market, and why user >groups were useful. The store refused to take it if it had any shareware >because they are afraid that the authors might sue if they made money on a >computer by giving away their software. I tried to explain to them why >this was not a problem but they would not listen. Am I wrong or could this >be a problem? I am also ignorant of the law >:-). If the ONLY way to get those disks from that dealership were to buy a new Amiga, there might be some legal grounds for complaint on the part of the shareware authors. (Not that I think any of them WOULD complain, mind you, but they might have grounds to.) If the dealer also let anyone walk in off the street and copy the software onto their own disks for no cost, then there's nothing for the authors to complain about. (Indeed, that's the whole idea of shareware in the first place!) Maybe the dealer was afraid of hurting his software sales by letting out good shareware stuff? 1/2 :-) "I'm an engineer, dammit, not a lawyer!" Standard disclaimers to that effect. -- ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------------- There's nothing in this world quite so dangerous | Steve King (708) 991-8056 as a bored engineer. | ...uunet!motcid!king | ...ddsw1!palnet!stevek
donw@zehntel.zehntel.com (Don White) (12/07/89)
In article <60@uncmed.med.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes: > > While I was home for the Thanksgiving break I ran across a new >computer store in the local mall. It looked like the standard MOSS-DOS >store so I thought I would go and rattle the cage of the salesman about the >Amiga. I asked him if they carried the Amiga expecting to have to explain >that it wasn't a Taiwanese clone. He said he didn't but that he would like >to but C= required that he buy 50 Amigas a month. We had a bit of a Commodore, if this is true, please please PULLEASE set up a SMALL DEALER SUPPORT SYSTEM. Just because your current dealer support isn't geared to cope economically with small dealers doesn't mean that small dealers should be ignored. Small dealers can turn into some of the most loyal large dealers. Maybe a scaling down of services would work. Or there could be decentralized local offices which service local dealers large and small. There. That feels better. ;-) Don White Box 271177 Concord, CA. 94527-1177 zehtnel!donw
kraft@plains.UUCP (Joe Kraft) (12/09/89)
In article <2613@zehntel.UUCP> donw@zehntel.UUCP (Don White) writes: >In article <60@uncmed.med.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes: >> >> While I was home for the Thanksgiving break I ran across a new >>computer store in the local mall.... etc. > > Commodore, if this is true, please please PULLEASE set up a SMALL > DEALER SUPPORT SYSTEM. Just because your current dealer support isn't > geared to cope economically with small dealers doesn't mean that small > dealers should be ignored. Small dealers can turn into some of the most > loyal large dealers. Maybe a scaling down of services would work. Or > there could be decentralized local offices which service local dealers > large and small. Whie I was home for Thanksgiving I went into the store where I bought my Amiga back in '85. There wasn't an Amiga to be found there, when I told them about the big promo C= is doing on the 500...I about got thrown out of the store for mentioning the name. The manager came out and asked if they were trying to sell them through their dealer network, then told me that C= had pissed off all the smaller dealers by their lack of support. He told me that whenever he called C= they said, "We'll get back to you." and they never did. He was also pissed about getting the run-around when he quit dealing whth C= and they still owe him some money. He finally gave up on trying to call or write them, and just absorbed the loss. Another thing that he didn't like was the fact people on the Air Force Base could buy the same computer from the Commissary at less than his cost from C=. Personally he liked the Amiga computer and would have liked to keep selling them, but he didn't need the hassle when he could sell other lines of computers and get good support from the company. > There. That feels better. ;-) Likewise. ;-) > Don White > Box 271177 Concord, CA. 94527-1177 > zehtnel!donw Joe Kraft 1010-16th St N #7, Fargo ND, 58102 kraft@plains
me300234@pa.usl.edu (Stelly John B III) (12/09/89)
As of last week, the computer store I work for does not carry the Amiga anymore. It is directly due to Commodore's ordering policy. I live in a town of about 100,000 people, and we HAD two amiga dealers. Commodore required that, this Christmas, each dealer order 20 (!) amiga 500's. Also new dealers must order no less than $20,000 of product (I believe that is accurate). We are lucky to sell 20 amigas in one year, and there is no way that we could sell 20 for Christmas. On the other hand we move quite a few more PC clones in a year, so my boss felt that the money would be better invested in 20 IBM clones, and from a bussiness standpoint, I agree. With Amiga sales as they are, buying 20 at a time (with no accompanying price break !!!) is not a smart bussiness move. I own an Amiga, and so does my boss, and both of us believe the machine is great, and for that reason we still service the amiga (and C64), and carry Amiga software, and 3rd party hardware. But, unless Commodore is willing to change its policy, many small dealers will make the same decision we did. (and I'm pissed because no I have to sell ALL PC clones - and tell people that VGA color is wonderful ) A disgruntled amiga salesman, --John B Stelly PS- until last week we had been selling Amigas since day one (since the AMiga was available).
schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (12/09/89)
In article <2974@plains.UUCP> kraft@plains.UUCP (Joe Kraft) writes: > > Whie I was home for Thanksgiving I went into the store where I bought >my Amiga back in '85. There wasn't an Amiga to be found there, when I >told them about the big promo C= is doing on the 500...I about got thrown >out of the store for mentioning the name. > > The manager came out and asked if they were trying to sell them through >their dealer network, then told me that C= had pissed off all the smaller >dealers by their lack of support. [some lines deleted] > > Another thing that he didn't like was the fact people on the Air >Force Base could buy the same computer from the Commissary at less >than his cost from C=. > > Joe Kraft > 1010-16th St N #7, Fargo ND, 58102 > kraft@plains I think that people at the Air Force Base might buy an Amiga at the Base Exchange, but not the Commissary (which is where they would go to buy food). In any event, while exchange prices are low and competitive, I don't think that they are below dealer wholesale. The Navy Exchange here sells the 500 for the same price as Software, Etc. out in town - $599 (although I expect this might drop $20 - 25 ). The 2000 is sold at $1580 normally (prior to the list price reduction announcement by Commodore). I did get mine for $1422, but that was on a special one-hour 10% off sale. People have gotten equipment mail order at much lower prices than can be gotten through the exchanges. (I know, mail order is supposedly on the way out). The dealer's comment about the exchange selling Amiga's at under his cost just doesn't sound right to me, as the exchanges are required to sell them at above their cost (volume buying by the exchange service might lower the exchanges' price somewhat, but I expect its not that great an amount). Just my thoughts on the above comment. Jeff Schweiger -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger CompuServe: 74236,1645 Standard Disclaimer ARPAnet (Defense Data Network): schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (12/09/89)
In article <774@rouge.usl.edu> me300234@pa.usl.edu (Stelly John B III) writes: >As of last week, the computer store I work for does not carry the Amiga >anymore. It is directly due to Commodore's ordering policy. I live in a >town of about 100,000 people, and we HAD two amiga dealers. Commodore >required that, this Christmas, each dealer order 20 (!) amiga 500's. Also >new dealers must order no less than $20,000 of product (I believe that is >accurate). We are lucky to sell 20 amigas in one year, and there is no way >that we could sell 20 for Christmas. While I can simpathize with your plea, the new CBM policy is pretty much a standard one of the microcomputer industry, followed by such companies as IBM and Apple. CBM used to "count" the number of dealers that were carrying the Amiga (I recall over 2000 carried it at one time). As we all know that did not result in much sales in the US. If your store cannot sell 20 Amigas by Christmas and can sell only 20 a year it is not worth CBM the expense in time and money to support you as a dealer. It is just dollars and sense. Apple implemented a similar policy a while back. The result of it was that lots of dealers started pushing the machine much more than they were doing because of the possibility of losing the dealership otherwise. IMHO, I agree with the policy. It is much better for CBM to concentrate on "large volume" dealers that can push the machine hard and provide real support, than spend efforts with dealing with small little stores. Note that the policy is the result of the abysmal US sales, so something had to be done. AT the same time, CBM is cleaning up all those gray market mail order outlet that were giving the Amiga a bad rap. A good thing that, too. Flames to /dev/null. -- Marco Papa 'Doc' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Diga and Caligari!" -- Rick Unland -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
easu021@orion.oac.uci.edu (Jason Goldberg) (12/09/89)
I can't confirm or deny your reports about dealers being forced to make specific orders in order to retain their dealership. However, I can tell you that it is not a policy of CBM directly. If it is true, then it has been instegated (sp?) by individual District Sales Managers and not by CBM the company. I know that the West Coast District Sales office does not have any type of quota system in effect. The only thing they have is a minimun order to start as an Amiga dealer. A new chain of stores has opened on the west coast called ComputerCity SuperStore. It is a joint venture of Inacomp and Mitsubishi. The store that just opened in Garden Grove is being heavly supported by CBM. Currently CBM has two full time people in the store helping it get its Amiga sales off the ground. They store has 8 A500, 1 2000HD, 2 2500 on the floor for demos, a $40,000 floor desplay complete with a toy Amiga slide for the kiddies. The great part of this idea is that ComputerCity carry every Printer/Monitor/ect... available. Including a large assortment of MACS, PC's, SUN's, SPARC's, ect... each set up to demo a specific application ie "DeskTop Presentation". The store includes a seminar auditorium complete with two walls of 8 30" monitors and a projection RGB monitor, all pluged into Amigas! I may become a full time employee of ComputerCity based on how impressed I was in my first visits! -Jason-
bleys@tronsbox.UUCP (Bill Cavanaugh) (12/11/89)
That type of sales policy (buying quota) is fine if you've already established yourself. Despite it's age, CBM still hasn't really gotten entrenched, except for the C64 and the Pet. When Apple says, "Buy 10 Macs a month or you lose your dealership!", and you've been selling five a month, you increase your emphasis on Mac sales. When Commie says the same thing about the Amiga, and you've been selling 10 every SIX months, you regretfully request that they take back you stock. CBM should be wooing dealers, not driving them away!
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (12/11/89)
I approve of pushing dealers to push the Amiga. Once I was in a local
dealer (since gone belly up) and an older couple strolled in and asked to
be shown a computer good for wordprocessing, that is cheap and easy to use.
The salescreature (who I know loves his Amiga) said, "Sure. Right this way."
And showed them a Commodore Colt with some braindamaged free wordprocessor
it comes with.
After they left, I suggested to him that ProWrite (or something) on a
500 would have been just as good, if not a better choice for them. "Gee!
You're right! I never thought of that..."
This dealer had trouble pushing 20 machines out per year in a town of
250,000. No wonder. I've sold three just on my street, in a town of
5,000. Maybe I should be the dealer?
leeslfields@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Scott L Fields) (12/13/89)
Yes, military bases may not be that much cheaper than at dealers but then you have to pay sales tax at a dealer. when you sell a machine that can cost up to $1000, sales tax can be pretty substantial.
hutch@thor.acc.stolaf.edu (Lance A. Hutchinson) (12/15/89)
In article <[25832128:2625.9]comp.sys.amiga;1@tronsbox.UUCP> bleys@tronsbox.UUCP (Bill Cavanaugh) writes: >That type of sales policy (buying quota) is fine if you've already >established yourself. Despite it's age, CBM still hasn't really gotten >entrenched, except for the C64 and the Pet. When Apple says, "Buy 10 Macs >a month or you lose your dealership!", and you've been selling five a month, >you increase your emphasis on Mac sales. When Commie says the same thing >about the Amiga, and you've been selling 10 every SIX months, you >regretfully request that they take back you stock. CBM should be wooing >dealers, not driving them away! COMMODORE has no such policy that I know of and I work for a dealer! We were given the opportunity to put in orders for units of 20 500's in September, but we were NEVER FORCED TO SELL MACHINES! Who ever has started this RUMOR should realize it is only a rumor. Commodore has been nothing but helpful and prompt in helping its dealers ever since the reorganization that is still on going! Remember - ONLY THE AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE! and the old attage "The Amiga will make it despite COMMODORE" may be coming to a close once and for all. Thanks COMMODORE!
visinfo@ethz.UUCP (VISINFO Moderators) (12/15/89)
In article <60@uncmed.med.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes: > > While I was home for the Thanksgiving break I ran across a new >computer store in the local mall. It looked like the standard MOSS-DOS >store so I thought I would go and rattle the cage of the salesman about the >Amiga. I asked him if they carried the Amiga expecting to have to explain >that it wasn't a Taiwanese clone. He said he didn't but that he would like >to but C= required that he buy 50 Amigas a month. We had a bit of a >discussion where he made some bogus claims about multitasking on low memory >clones but otherwise he seemed to know his stuff. He seemed to be >genuinely interested in carrying the Amiga but I come from an area near a >city of about 30,000. There would be no way that he could move 50 Amigas a >month and probably could barely move 50 of a clone brand each month. This is also a big problem here in Switzerland. My father owns a Radio and TV shop. We also want to sell Amigas. But we also should sell 50 Amigas a year. That's impossible for a lot of intersted dealer who want sell Amigas. Our Shop is located in a 2000 people village. I have the impression that CBM is only interested in selling Amigas. Only the number of sold Amigas count. The consequence of this is that in Swizterland most Amigas are sold through Supermarkets and Discount shops. There are nearly any shop in Switzerland that has any further knowledge about the Amiga. There is no really professional Amiga shop where you can buy things like Ethernet cards, Hardframe controller and other advanced Amiga stuff. We have to buy the Amigas we sell through another Dealer who is located near Zurich. This is sometimes very annoying becausce we can't call CBM to ask things like new prices or tecnical stuff. We also have a very, very bas support here in Swizterland. I'm surprised that you also in the USA have to sell 50 Amigas a year. Generally I have the impression that the support in USA is far better than the Support here. (Although for the USA the support seems to be very bad compared with other companies). I'd like to know how the situation is in other countries. Please post or email me your experiences. And ideas to convice CBM to change their strange ideas. /* -------------------------- SG (Simeon Graphics) ---------------------- */ /* Peter Simeon, UUCP: | // // */ /* visinfo@bernina.ethz.ch | // Long live the AMIGA! // */ /* BIX: hardwiz | \X/ \X/ */ /* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- */
ewiles@netxdev.DHL.COM (Edwin Wiles) (12/20/89)
In article <60@uncmed.med.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes: >Amiga. I asked him if they carried the Amiga expecting to have to explain >that it wasn't a Taiwanese clone. He said he didn't but that he would like >to but C= required that he buy 50 Amigas a month. In article <2852@ethz.UUCP> visinfo@bernina.ethz.ch.UUCP (VISINFO Moderators) writes: >This is also a big problem here in Switzerland. My father owns a Radio and >TV shop. We also want to sell Amigas. But we also should sell 50 Amigas >a year. That's impossible for a lot of intersted dealer who want sell Amigas. I would suggest that each of you form some sort of 'consortium' of small stores in your areas. That way, the 'consortium' can purchase 50 a month, and distribute them to those stores which want them. You would have to be very careful about how you arrange it, but it could work! Imagine, there must be 50 small computer stores within a 100 or 200 mile radius, all of whom would be willing to carry the Amiga if they didn't have to buy 50 of them at a time. So the consortium collects orders from the stores (with the cash for the machines prepaid!) and places the order with Commodore. (Prepayment is recommended so that the consortium is taking no risks with geting stuck with the bill.) It should be possible to have the Amiga's "drop shipped", which means that instead of them all comming to one central location, and having to be reshipped, they get directly shipped by Commodore's factory to the stores which ordered them from the consortium. Look into it! Plan CAREFULLY! Make sure that you can support the 50-per-month requirement from the stores in your group, even if they don't all reorder the following months! Maybe if you have many more than 50 orders for one month, you can place the first 50 orders and delay the remainder for the next month. (This will even out your flow with respect to Commodore, and earn you a reputation for being a reliable orderer, though it will cause some stores to wait excessively long for their machines to arrive. Still, they wouldn't be carrying them at all if you hadn't done something about it!) TRY! "Who?... Me?... WHAT opinions?!?" | Edwin Wiles Schedule: (n.) An ever changing nightmare. | NetExpress Comm., Inc. ..!uunet!netxcom!ewiles (I'm certain!) | 1953 Gallows Rd. Suite 300 OR ewiles@iad-nxe.global-mis.DHL.COM (I think!) | Vienna, VA 22182