kleonard@gvlv2.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ken Leonard) (12/21/89)
our tools just circling the target, and none of us really moving very fast toward a solid hit? In article <2468@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) writes: > > > My main points are : The computer for the general users should not be > > > command driven. > > Menus and mice are great when you are first learning to use a system, but > > they get in the way of experienced users. ---------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --except when they are faster than keystrokes --unless they are slower --except when they assist in infrequent things --unless an infrequent thing maybe should not be assisted --except when they feel easier --unless they feel clumsier > > An ideal system should not > > _force_ the user to use a mouse/menu system, just as an ideal system > > should not _force_ the user to type commands. An ideal system should > > allow the user to use _either_ the mouse or the keyboard, based on the > > preference of the user. Neither the Mac nor the PC are even close to > > ideal in this regard. ..... OK, OK. . . So this is all MOTHERHOOD, APPLE PIE and CHEVROLET. The REAL question is (IMHO), "What system will let me have my choice?" > Hmm. Sounds like an Amiga to me. Now's the time to take a closer look. But, for me, Amiga is not an option. I'll spare the bureaucrappic/ administrivial gore, please just take my word for it. And understand that there are a LOT of us in the same oarless boat--we have enough trouble convincing those-who-hold-the-purse that we might have good use for _any_ "personal" computing tool. The only choices open to us, at all, are the standard (chuckle?) MAC and IBMPClone types. In article <4125@puff.cs.wisc.edu> schaut@cat9.cs.wisc.edu (Richard Schaut) writes: > In the midst of the flame war, Doug McDonald said something that, I think, > touches on an idea that has been germinating in my head for the past few > months: > > [Intelligence] is the ability to solve complicated problems by > > combining pieces of a solution, being able to see how to do a > > given task by working with convenient pre-existing things. It is the > > same kind of task that high schoolers learn (well, I did) in > > geometry (proving theorems), that freshmen learn in calculus > > class (doing a complicated integral by various tricks) and that I > > do in my business, solving problems in theoretical physics. And what I want on my desk is SOMETHING that will help me see the pieces of the problem, let me look at the pieces from multiple viewpoints, keep a wide range of tools within close reach, and facilitate the combination and application of the tools. > The current situation on both the Macs and the PCs is marked by the > existence of monolithic/do-everythin-immaginable programs. ---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And I assume, maybe rashly, that Richard does _not_ mean just "integrated" spreadsheet/database/wordmunger thingies and such. How much do I wish that Microsoft Word could _pipe_ its output to a filter instead of just a printer or printer-file! Could I use a three- or four-stage, multi-output filter to sort incoming mail! Would I like to be able to put any of the above in a can and hang it on a menu choice for routine operations and still be able to invoke all (or part?) of it manually modified for unusual needs? What about my umpteen-piece [proprietary name deleted] something-analyzer process? > Will the > advent of multitasking/multithreading OS' on both machines result in > a shift from the paradigm of the monolith to the paradigm of programs > built from small building blocks that the user can piece together to > fit his own needs? Good Grief, I hope so.!.! > If the interprocess communication facilities are > simple yet quick enough, we could see another revolution in the personal > computer industry. > The chances of this are even more enhanced by the > device independance built into both new systems. Well, sort-of, so far. . . What we mostly have is the ability to put image-like data (image of picture or image of text or image of graph or image of ?) onto any of a number of image-mode devices. Or the ability to pass the same set of text-stream-like data into any text-stream-input programs. Or the ability of a document-formatting program to accept document-like data from any of several document-oriented file formats. What we _need_ is something closer to _device-class_independence_. So maybe we can pipe a stream of numeric fields from a network simulation program into a grep-like selector then to a spreadsheet-like reducer then to a MSword-like formatter then to a page- grabber to make frame images I can use in an overhead projector to present a network load analysis to my client! > The best thing about > such a shift is that everybody wins, especially the user. Well, eventually probably so. But in the interim, we're caught between the PClone/MS folk who wouldn't be caught dead putting a picture of something on the screen, and the AppleOrchardists who wouldn't be caught dead letting us do something for which they haven't devised an excessively cute and overly abstract icon. ---------------- Here's a scene I'd like to see... --I've just finished using a table-oriented text-based editor to update the parameters for a simulation run. --I click on the NAMEPLATE of my network analyzer. --The analyzer needs a model file, so it asks me which one and I just click on the right one. --And the analyzer needs a parameters file, so it asks me and I click on it. --Then I click on th output-filter-munger. --And now the analyzer has all the info it needs, so it starts to execute. --And the filter-munger is set up to ask/confirm its selector parameters, so it shows me the defaults and I just click because they're OK. --Then I click on the documenter-formatter. --And now the munger has all the info it needs so it starts to run with input piped from the analyzer. --Then I click on the page-grabber. --And the formatter has all it needs, so it starts to run. --Finally I click on the "new setup" option of the laserprinter icon. --And the printhandler asks me for media parameters and shows me a list of choices. --And I click on "transparency sheets" and the printhandler starts spooling- forming the output from the page grabber. --And then I click on the "background" trigger and the whole thing gets out of the way (and continues to run) while I read may latest netmail. ------------------------ When I get a system that lets me do something mostly like that, I'll feel like I'm making real progress. ----------------- regardz, Ken