keithh@atreus.uucp (Keith Hanlan) (12/20/89)
In article <997@madnix.UUCP> perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) writes: > > The CEDPro Release 2 Upgrade is now available. > >Thanks for your patience, we're confident that you'll find Release 2 >worth the wait. > >Perry Kivolowitz >ASDG OK. For those of us who aren't familiar with CEDPro, (but are perhaps familiar with ASDG's good name), could somebody please either: o point me to a review of the editor o post or mail me their own review of the editor. Perry, no-one's ever flamed you for being commercial and blowing your own horn on then net. Perhaps you could elaborate on the features of release 2 that make it "worth the wait". I finally got my Amiga after closely following the machine since its inception. I am going to be using it for software development and am looking for a good "programmer's" editor. Thanks, Keith Hanlan Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada 613-765-4645 uunet!utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!bmers58!atreus!keithh or keithh@bnr.ca Keith Hanlan Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada 613-765-4645 uunet!utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!bmers58!atreus!keithh or keithh@bnr.ca
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (12/23/89)
In article <657@bmers58.UUCP> keithh@bnr.ca (Keith Hanlan) writes: >Perry, no-one's ever flamed you for being commercial and blowing your >own horn on then net. Perhaps you could elaborate on the features of >release 2 that make it "worth the wait". Some of the new features of CEDPro Release 2: o Unlimited undo/redo. o A completely cohesive and comprehensive Arexx interface. o Launch dos/arexx commands anytime/anywhere. o Alternate fonts can be used. o All new shared reentrant requester library. o Turbo replace mode (100 times faster than release 1's global replace). o Requesters can be stored and driven from inside macros. o Startup-macro. o Additional file save methods (simple, safe, and multiple). o User definable screen colors. o Read-only views. o Display ascii values mode. o Better word handling. o jump-to-byte for Modula 2 compiler support. o Directly supports new CAPE and ARGASM assemblers. o Macros and ARexx programs can be bound to any key. o 250 page manual with index and every ARexx command has an example. Anyway - this was partial and very brief. pk -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ``We look for things. Things that make us go.'' UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry CIS: 76004,1765 PLINK: pk-asdg
bader+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Bader) (12/24/89)
This sounds like a pretty featureful editor, but can anyone give me an idea
of how emacs-like you make the keybindings? (I'm sick of the limitations of
mg)
In particular:
1) can you bind key-sequences (^X-^V e.g.) in addition to single keys
2) does it it have a cut-buffer
3) if so, can cut/paste work on character (not line) boundaries
4) are the commands available for binding low-level? (Like I had a lot of
problems with the turbo editor, as they had a single search command
which gave the user 10 million prompts for the type of search, etc.
This doesn't work too well with the emacs bindings...)
5) Is using the mouse ever required (I don't care if it is by default, just
as long as I can get around it by changing the bindings or whatever)?
Thanks, -Milestlimonce@drunivac.uucp (12/24/89)
Release 1.0 came with a reasonable Emacs binding. I am about to order the upgrade (which relies on the receipt of Christmas money and tution bills... send your donations to...) You can map most keys to anything (in 1.0) and ANY key to anything (in 2.0). When you define a macro it starts be asking what key(s) to bind it to. You are permitted almost unlimited keys. I've never tried more than 2, I doubt a macro that required 10 keys to bring up would be very useful :-=). I use the Emacs bindings that they supply, though I use some of the Amiga-key shortcuts. In article <YZZ1SV200Uka44KGAU@andrew.cmu.edu>, bader+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Bader) writes: > 1) can you bind key-sequences (^X-^V e.g.) in addition to single keys Yes. > 2) does it it have a cut-buffer A separate buffer? No, macros could emulate it. With AREXX you could get really fancy. > 3) if so, can cut/paste work on character (not line) boundaries Yes. > 4) are the commands available for binding low-level? (Like I had a lot of The gadgets that select such things are keyboard accessible, I assume that permits macros to access them but I haven't tried it. > 5) Is using the mouse ever required (I don't care if it is by default, just > as long as I can get around it by changing the bindings or whatever)? No, in fact it looks like they went through a lot of effort to make sure of this. Quick "here's an error, click here to continue" requesters can be gotten through with the keyboard. An interesting thing that they did is make Left-Amiga act just like Right-Amiga. No more trying to remember if it's Left- or Right-Amiga does which functions. I'm not sure if this is the wave of the future, but I really like it. You're mileage may var.... (oh heck, there aren't enough irrational flame wars right now) EVERYONE SHOULD DO THIS AND ONLY BUY PROGRAMS THAT DO THIS OR ELSE I'LL KILL THIS VOODOO DOLL THAT LOOKS LIKE "STEVIE" FROM THOSE DAMN AMIGA COMMERCIALS. :-) > Thanks, -Miles Tom "Holliday Stresssssss" Limoncelli (Replying to this address won't work. Try tlimonce@drew.uucp, tlimonce@drew.bitnet limonce@pilot.njin.net or for you people without smart routers: rutgers!drew!tlimonce ) Can you FEEL THIS Stevie? Bwwaaaahahahahahaha.
hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov (Randy Hammock) (12/27/89)
In article <27914.25942f69@drunivac.uucp> tlimonce@drunivac.uucp writes: >An interesting thing that they did is make Left-Amiga act just like >Right-Amiga. No more trying to remember if it's Left- or Right-Amiga >does which functions. I'm not sure if this is the wave of the future, >but I really like it. I too like the way this works but it is my understanding that Commodore is supposedly going to be taking control of the Left-Amiga <key> for their own internal DOS functions. If I'm not mistaken, C= has even stated in some document somewhere that Left-Amiga <key> combinations are to be reserved for use by C= only. Perhaps someone at Commodore can shed more light on this. Best wished for the Holiday Season! Randy Hammock AMIGA /// | randy@jato.jpl.nasa.gov Telos - Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA /// | hammock@mars.jpl.nasa.gov ** GALILEO launch October 1989 ** \\\/// |-------------------------------------------------------------------- \XX/ | "If I wanted your opinions, I'd have given them to you!" - Mock
perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (12/28/89)
In article <YZZ1SV200Uka44KGAU@andrew.cmu.edu> bader+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Bader) writes: >This sounds like a pretty featureful editor, but can anyone give me an idea >of how emacs-like you make the keybindings? (I'm sick of the limitations of >mg) > Release 1 was distributed with an Emacs macro set. I suspect Release 2 would allow an even closer set of bindings. Anyone with Emacs handy want to give it a try? > 1) can you bind key-sequences (^X-^V e.g.) in addition to single keys Yes. You can bind a macro to as many keys/combinations as you like. > 2) does it it have a cut-buffer Yes. > 3) if so, can cut/paste work on character (not line) boundaries Yes. Even can cut and paste by columns. > 4) are the commands available for binding low-level? (Like I had a lot of > problems with the turbo editor, as they had a single search command > which gave the user 10 million prompts for the type of search, etc. > This doesn't work too well with the emacs bindings...) In Release 2, your response to any requester which comes up during the definition of a macro can be stored as part of the macro. This is enormously powerful. > 5) Is using the mouse ever required (I don't care if it is by default, just > as long as I can get around it by changing the bindings or whatever)? A major design goal of CEDPro is never forcing the user to use one input mechanism over another. The only thing tied to the mouse is scrolling the entries in the file requester. We apologize for not having Release 2 in the stores yet. Our packaging plans got enormously screwed. While we have been shipping upgrades, we'll get it to the stores just as soon as we can. -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ``We look for things. Things that make us go.'' UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry CIS: 76004,1765 PLINK: pk-asdg
swan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Joel Swan) (12/28/89)
A few thoughts on the CED release 2. This is NOT a thorough
examination of CED2, but some kudos and critisisms that I have been
addressing since release 1.
For the most part, I like the CEDPro release 2. For those that are
unaware, CEDPro 2 is an update to CygnusEd Professional, a fast and
powerful text processor. It is very fast in the turbo search/replace mode.
Dizzingly so. Almost all of the user interface is identical to the first
release. I like this, because almost everything can be controlled EASILY
from the keyboard. I don't mean just Amiga-key equivalents to the menu
commands. I mean the response to the requesters can all be controled by
either the mouse OR an easy response from the keyboard (usually "y" for
"OK" or "n" for "CANCEL"). No need to constantly reach for the dern mouse
(this is a TEXT processor, right?) The AREXX suport is very well done, as
is the powerful macro support. The UNDO is very nice, but not quite a
journal, yet.
However, I must still complain LOUDLY over one glaring problem and
one minor problem that are STILL being overlooked by "usually good
developers" like ASDG.
1. Lack of official CLIPBOARD support. This alone will keep me from
recommending its purchase to anyone I know. Sorry ASDG (and Perry), this
is inexcusable. Programs like SNAP and CBM's Bridgboard window, to name
just a few, work like champs when paired up with TxEd Plus. THEY support
the clipboard. Remember that idea? It really IS nice. Not the private
paste buffer you use. Very discouraging.
I can think of no other way to make developers pay attention and
include these highly desireable features than to affect their sales. No
clipboard, no purchase. This is a multitasking machine. I use multiple
products that demand information be easily shared. AREXX is a nice start
for sharing control, but let's not bypass one of the simple ways of melding
the environment together; sharing DATA easily. It feels as though they
stood on the mountain top and reached out for AREXX while the clipboard
went unheeded in the valley below.
(#2 is not so much a flame, but I am bewildered as to why this problem
still persists.)
2. While claiming that the new file requester is better than the old one
(and in most respects it is :-), they also made it slower and more
cumbersome to use in a certain way. In the first release, there was a
limited number of buttons that one used to pick the input or output device
(logical or physical). The biggest problems were 1) that the 16 buttons
limited ones choice of devices and 2) it also presented you with less used
device names like NULL:, LIBS:, SPEAK:, etc. Meanwhile, it 3) left out
important logical devices like DOC: or MAN:.
The new requester has an extra window (similar to the file listing
window) that contains most of your systems devices. You can scroll through
this list and find the deives (physical or logical) you want. Fine for a
small list, torture if you have a large list. Well, the new requester
takes care of problem 1 and 3, but only added to the confusion of 2. For
instance, I have the following names show up in the CED file requester:
A: L:
ANIMBRSH: LIBS:
ANM: LO-RS:
B: MAN:
BOOT: MED-RS:
BOT: MODULES:
BRSH: MUSIC-X:
C: NEWC:
DISKINDF0: NEWCON:
CLIPS: NULL:
DELUXEPAINTIII: PENPAL:
DEVS: PLTDATA:
DF0: PRINT:
DF1: PROMIDI:
DH0: PROMISE:
DH2: PROSOUND:
DICT: PROTOCOLS:
DOCS: RAM:
EDITOR: RAM:
ENV: REXX:
EXCELLENCE!: S:
EXP: SF1:
FF1: SF2:
FFF: SHANGHAI:
FONTS: SYS:
HD1: T:
HD2: TEMP:
HD3: TODAY:
HELP: V3D:
HI-RES: WP:
HPFONTS: YBS:
INTERLAC:
and in the near future I'll have about 10 more as I work to get UUCP set
up. (I don't know why RAM: is listed twice.)
With the old CED, one fast click on a gadget would find your device
or disk. Can you imagine the new the process in trying to find TEMP: or
HD1: in such mass of garble? A pain.
It would be grand if the commercial developers would look at some of
the shareware and PD file utilities that exist. They would notice that the
config file often contains a list of devices the user wants to see on a
regular basis, leaving the never used devices out of the way (like L:,
LIBS:, PROSOUND:, etc.) For instance, I would like to see only these
devices:
A: HD2:
B: HD3:
DF0: RAM:
DF1: REXX:
DOCS: S:
FF1: TEMP:
HD1: VD0:
...much more efficient.
When I'm in a hurry, I fly through things like file requesters, and
anything that feels unatural and slow acts like a brick wall. (Should I
bring up the wretched DPAINTIII file requester -- gag! Still a piece of
crap.)
No. 2 is presented for ASDG's (and anyone else's) consideration. Please
make program's UI's as efficient as possible. (ASDG usually gets pretty
high marks in this regard)
No. 1 is a genuine FLAME. There is NO excuse for lack of Clipboard
support. If the shareware and PD authors use it, then the "professionals"
have NO excuse. It IS wanted and needed often in my setup, although lack
of suport is often frustrating.
What do you think? (especially in regards to the clipboard)
Joel Swancaw@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Chris Wichura) (12/28/89)
I also noticed something about the new CEDPro. Previously, when I started
an ARexx script it would open that damned CON: window which wasn't really
even a CON: as any ADos program your script might have called considered it
to be non-interactive. Well, now the new version doesn't open the window.
However, this has caused me some problems. Namely, I have a CED script that
I used to compile a program I have been working on (never did learn to use
makefiles very well...) and when it hits the LC command it GURUs where the
old version didn't. This is mainly due to Lattice's insistance of sending
the stupid copyright message to stderr (which is created with Open("*", ...))
rather than to stdout (the script re-directs the output to a temp file).
When LC tries to print Lattice's banner it falls flat on its face.
I am using ARexx 1.10, which, as I understand it, should be creating a new
CLI for each script that is run. Am I doing something seriously wrong here?
Christopher A. Wichura (u12401@uicvm.uic.edu -- my home account)mjl@alison.at (Martin J. Laubach) (12/29/89)
In Message <1002@madnix.UUCP>, perry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) wrote: >> 2) does it it have a cut-buffer > > Yes. Now comes the important question: does it support the ClipBoard? I like the appearance of CEDPro, but there are a couple of details that have kept me away from it, and one of these is its lack of clipboard support. Please do us a favor and add it. mjl // Usenet: mjl@alison.at or ..uunet!mcsun!tuvie!alison!mjl \X/ Fido: 2:310/3.14