pkivela@tukki.jyu.fi (P Kivela) (12/10/89)
Hello, everybody! I'm a relative newcomer to the world of Amiga, having bought a second-hand Amiga 2000 (2 disk drives, 1,5 Meg RAM, 512 K "chip" RAM) a couple of weeks ago. Since I bought the machine to do some precision colour illustrations, I expected to be able to use at least 16 (preferably more) colours with a horizontal resolution of at least 640 pixels. Unfortunately, I wasn't very familiar with the details of Amiga's screen modes, so I was rather disappointed to find out that you can only use 8 colours in the high horizontal resolution. The interlacing technique used to increase the vertical resolution is also very eye-straining. However, I have recently heard rumours about an upgrade which increases the number of colours in the higher resolutions by replacing the graphics-generating chip (Agnus, wasn't it?) with a newer version and increasing the "chip" memory. to 1 Mbyte. Could anyone confirm this and if so, could he/she provide some information about it ? Finnish readers: do you know if this upgrade is available from PCI-Data? As you may have guessed, I'm also looking for a high-end paint/draw program for the Amiga. Any suggestions ? How about 3-d imaging software and a program to convert from the IFF format to GIF (Graphics Interchange Format) ? Please reply directly to me by e-mail (addresses below). Any help appreciated, Pertti Kivela -- Pertti Kivela Department of English, University of Jyvaskyla, Finland Internet E-mail to: pkivela@tukki.jyu.fi OR PKIVELA@JYLK.JYU.FI EARN/BITNET -"- : PKIVELA@FINJYU.EARN,PKIVELA@FINJYU.BITNET
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/14/89)
In <2370@tukki.jyu.fi>, pkivela@tukki.jyu.fi (P Kivela) writes: >... Since I bought the machine to do some precision colour illustrations, >I expected to be able to use at least 16 (preferably more) colours with a >horizontal resolution of at least 640 pixels. Unfortunately, I wasn't very >familiar with the details of Amiga's screen modes, so I was rather >disappointed to find out that you can only use 8 colours in the high >horizontal resolution. The 640*200 and 640*400 mode will allow display of 16 colours. -larry -- " All I ask of my body is that it carry around my head." - Thomas Alva Edison - +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
LadyHawke@cup.portal.com (Classic - Concepts) (12/22/89)
The reason you are getting only 8 colors in high resolution instead of 16 is probably because of memory limitations. I have 2 meg (you mentioned 1.5 meg), and that barely gets me the 16 colors. With another 1/2 meg, your graphics programs will allow you the higher color modes. With another meg, you would also be able to get Extra Half Bright (EHB) which would give you 16 colors plus 16 more in high resolution (640 x 400) of half intensity, with software which supports it such as DPaint III. Try, the 640 x 200 mode, with 1.5, I think you can get 16. What other software are you using??? J. Petersen (LadyHawke)
rsingh1@dahlia.waterloo.edu (12/23/89)
In article <25260@cup.portal.com> LadyHawke@cup.portal.com (Classic - Concepts) writes: > > The reason you are getting only 8 colors in high resolution instead of >16 is probably because of memory limitations. I have 2 meg (you mentioned >1.5 meg), and that barely gets me the 16 colors. With another 1/2 meg, >your graphics programs will allow you the higher color modes. With another >meg, you would also be able to get Extra Half Bright (EHB) which would >give you 16 colors plus 16 more in high resolution (640 x 400) of half >intensity, with software which supports it such as DPaint III. Try, the >640 x 200 mode, with 1.5, I think you can get 16. What other software >are you using??? J. Petersen (LadyHawke) Sir, you do not understand of which you speak. Even with a 512k un-expanded amiga 1000 I was able to view 768x480 images, and draw (in Dpaint 1 though), in 16 colours in high-res interlace. The amiga, currently, has no more than 1024k of graphics memory available. Most machines still have the old 'chip set' that give them 512k memory for graphics. All pictures, screens, windows, etc... must go into this 'chip' ram to be displayed. 640x400x16 colours requires only: 640x400x4(bitplanes)/8(bits)/1024(bytes) = 125k ( I always thought it was 128k? ? ?)... So, around 128k anyway. My math may be wrong. That's about 128k of graphics memory. None of your expansion memory is used for display-graphics. It wouldn't matter if you had a billion gigabytes of expansion ram, if you only had 100k of chip ram free (some might be used up for windows, and screens and stuff), you couldn't display a high-res 16 colour image. That's the way it is. Also, you are a bit wrong about Half Bright. Half Bright only WORKS in the 320ish accross-the-top modes. (The 'LoRes' modes). Half Bright does not work in high resolution. Just like HAM mode does not function in the high-resolution (640ish accross) modes. To clear things up for you: There are typicaly 2 types of memory for the amiga. One is 'Chip' (graphics ram. It's called chip because it has to be 'attached' more or less directly to the motherboard (so the custom chips can grab it when they like)). The other, 'Fast' is ram that is not 'chip'. The custom chips can not use the 'Fast' Ram. Fast Ram called 'fast' because it always runs full speed, and does not get locked out when the custom chips do some wild stuff with graphics memory. Later /Paul Anton Sop (Esquire?). rsingh1@dahila.waterloo.edu/ /Graphic Designer 4 Spaghetti Western Words and Images / /100 Kinzie Ave, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, N2A 2J5 / /(519) 578-8525/742-0372 (if seriously really desparate)/
wicks@umbc3.UMBC.EDU (Mr. Tony Wicks ) (12/23/89)
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but: In HIRES (640 Horizontal) you can have up to 32 colors as long as you are not using INTERLACE (400 Vertical) which will only allow 16 colors on a HIRES screen. You can also get 32 colors or a 320 x 400 screen I think (I'm not sure about this one). All of this is mostly independent of how much FAST RAM that you have (as long as your application isn't memory hungry). What I mean by this is that the 512K that comes on a lowly A1000 will allow me to have an INTERLACE workbench (4 colors) and an application that I wrote myself (640 x 400 x 16 colors) at the same time. Of course I have to shut down practically everything else (Mach) and close most of my Workbench windows. On an A200 w/1MB of CHIP RAM you should be able to do even better than this. Tony Wicks wicks@umbc3.umbc.edu
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/26/89)
In <989@crash.cts.com>, bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) writes: >Hmm..that's very strange. Seems to me that you can't get 16 colors in >high-resolution severe overscan even if you had 8 meg of fast ram. It's the >chip ram that limits your color palette I believe (I may be wrong). As soon >as I installed my fatter Agnus chip, I could then get the full 16 colors in >high-res severe overscan. I couldn't previously even though I had a 3 meg >machine. The Amiga has always been capable of 16 colours in 640*400, including the oerscanned varieties. I run 704*470, and had no trouble getting 16 colours displayed before upgrading to the obese one. When you speak of not being able to get 16 colours, you are probably speaking of a particular program, and if so, you may well have been suffering a memory crunch due to things being run at the same time. Remember, everything running in the background will eat some memory, including things like disk drivers for both floppy and hard drives. Additionally, you may have had sufficient memory but it may have been fragmented because of the order in which some things were run while you booted. -larry -- " All I ask of my body is that it carry around my head." - Thomas Alva Edison - +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) (12/27/89)
In-Reply-To: message from LadyHawke@cup.portal.com > The reason you are getting only 8 colors in high resolution instead of > 16 is probably because of memory limitations. I have 2 meg (you mentioned > 1.5 meg), and that barely gets me the 16 colors. With another 1/2 meg, > your graphics programs will allow you the higher color modes. With another > meg, you would also be able to get Extra Half Bright (EHB) which would > give you 16 colors plus 16 more in high resolution (640 x 400) of half > intensity, with software which supports it such as DPaint III. Try, the > 640 x 200 mode, with 1.5, I think you can get 16. What other software > are you using??? J. Petersen (LadyHawke) Hmm..that's very strange. Seems to me that you can't get 16 colors in high-resolution severe overscan even if you had 8 meg of fast ram. It's the chip ram that limits your color palette I believe (I may be wrong). As soon as I installed my fatter Agnus chip, I could then get the full 16 colors in high-res severe overscan. I couldn't previously even though I had a 3 meg machine. -- Bob _______________________ Pro-Graphics BBS 201/469-0049 ________________________ InterNet: bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | ProLine: bobl@pro-graphics UUCP: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl | CServe: 70347,2344 ARPA/DDN: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl@nosc.mil | Amer. Online: Graphics3D ___________ ____________ Raven Enterprises - 25 Raven Ave. Piscataway, NJ 08854
bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) (01/03/90)
In-Reply-To: message from lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca >> Hmm..that's very strange. Seems to me that you can't get 16 colors in >> high-resolution severe overscan even if you had 8 meg of fast ram. It's the >> chip ram that limits your color palette I believe (I may be wrong). As soon >> as I installed my fatter Agnus chip, I could then get the full 16 colors in >> high-res severe overscan. I couldn't previously even though I had a 3 meg >> machine. > > The Amiga has always been capable of 16 colours in 640*400, including the > oerscanned varieties. I run 704*470, and had no trouble getting 16 colours > displayed before upgrading to the obese one. When you speak of not being able > to get 16 colours, you are probably speaking of a particular program, and if > so, you may well have been suffering a memory crunch due to things being run at > the same time. Remember, everything running in the background will eat some > memory, including things like disk drivers for both floppy and hard drives. > Additionally, you may have had sufficient memory but it may have been > fragmented because of the order in which some things were run while you booted. > > -larry Thanks for the info on the hi-res overscan capabilities of the Amiga. I knew it was a chip memory problem and it didn't click that my application was also using up the chip memory making 16 colors impossible. I think that my application (DpaintIII) is a standard and I would have to say that if you DO NOT have a new fatter Agnus, you will still not be able to obtain 16 colors running Dpaint III in severe overscan even if you have an 8 meg machine. Just so people know that the defacto standard painting program will not allow 16 colors in Hi-res overscan unless you do install the new Agnus. People may get the idea that they CAN paint in 16 colors when they actually can't unless they have an application that uses minimal chip mem. -- Bob _______________________ Pro-Graphics BBS 201/469-0049 ________________________ InterNet: bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | ProLine: bobl@pro-graphics UUCP: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl | CServe: 70347,2344 ARPA/DDN: ..crash!pro-graphics!bobl@nosc.mil | Amer. Online: Graphics3D ___________ ____________ Raven Enterprises - 25 Raven Ave. Piscataway, NJ 08854