rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) (12/18/89)
I am interested in trying out some desktop video on either an Amiga, or an Atari TT (or an Atari ATW). Currently, I own neither of these computers; in addition I know very little about desktop video. I do want to try generating computer animation to combine with real-life video. Secondly, it would also be nice if such a system could mix two video signals (from two VCR's) into one. The computer could perhaps control how the mixing is done. My first question is what types of Genlock are available for the Amiga, and what do people recommend (referals to magazine articles are welcome). At first glance it seems rather confusing, as the prices for genlock devices range in price from $150 up to about $2000. I am also unsure of what computer platform to choose. Beside the Amiga, other choices I can see are: - Atari STE/TT (provides a color palette of 4096), - Atari ATW (provides 16 million simultaneous colors), - Mac II (provides 16 million simultaneous colors). If anybody has any information on connecting a Genlock device to any of these machines please let me know. Thank you. -Ronald Hardock rhardock%alias@csri.utoronto.ca
hassinger@lmrc.uucp (01/02/90)
In article <678@alias.UUCP>, rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) writes: > I am interested in trying out some desktop video on > either an Amiga, or an Atari TT (or an Atari ATW). ... > Secondly, it would also be nice if such a system could > mix two video signals (from two VCR's) into one. > The computer could perhaps control how the mixing is done. I think in general you are going to find this one is hard, assuming you mean mixing the signals as opposed to grabbing a frame. The outputs of the two VCRs need to be synchronized before they can be combined the same way the Amiga has to be synchronized with an external video signal before its output can be combined with it (e.g. Genlock). The customary way to do this with two VCR signals is with TBCs (Time Base Correctors) which still tend to be expensive devices. The lower cost ones I have used also tend to require relatively expensive VCRs that include the capability to accept an advanced sync signal that is feed back from the TBC. Logically it would seem that you should be able to get away with one TBC to sync one VCR with another one that was free running but generally you find that in practice both VCRs have to be equipped with TBCs. This setup is often referred to as "A B Roll" in editing systems. > I am also unsure of what computer platform to choose. > Beside the Amiga, other choices I can see are: > - Atari STE/TT (provides a color palette of 4096), > - Atari ATW (provides 16 million simultaneous colors), > - Mac II (provides 16 million simultaneous colors). Can't comment on Atari. I think doing video from a Mac II is going to be expensive 1) because the Mac with 16 million color capability is itself expensive when compared to the Amiga, and 2) I believe the output from the Mac is not at standard NTSC video rates so it is incompatible for video production work and requires addition equipment to convert to suitable signals. The Amiga on the other hand was designed from the ground up to produce NTSC standard video. It also has a built-in capability to synchronize to an external signal, thus making genlocks much easier and cheaper to build. Yes, there are limits on what the Amiga can do in terms of number of colors and so on, but nothing can come within a mile of it in terms of *cost effectiveness* in video production applications, and its price/performance point is at a *very* useful level of functionality for what a great many of us want to do. It is not suitable for broadcast network production, but it costs a few percent of what the networks do use. It depends on how much you want to spend. The Amiga is cheap enough compared to the alternatives that you can buy it, get your feet wet, and then if you really want to spend the big bucks later your Amiga investment will only be a drop in the bucket. And it will still be useful for a dozen other applications.
hcj@lzsc.ATT.COM (HC Johnson) (01/04/90)
In article <3228@lmrc.uucp>, hassinger@lmrc.uucp writes: > In article <678@alias.UUCP>, rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) writes: > > I am interested in trying out some desktop video on > > either an Amiga, or an Atari TT (or an Atari ATW). > ... > > Secondly, it would also be nice if such a system could > > mix two video signals (from two VCR's) into one. > > The computer could perhaps control how the mixing is done. > > I think in general you are going to find this one is hard, assuming you mean > mixing the signals as opposed to grabbing a frame. The outputs of the two VCRs > need to be synchronized before they can be combined the same way the Amiga has > to be synchronized with an external video signal before its output can be > combined with it (e.g. Genlock). The customary way to do this with two VCR Yes, there is a Genlock for MEGA {24}, and its expensive. I have seen vidi-st at work and it looks promising for many applications. In my case I am trying to produce "reasonably interisting" home vidio work. Vidi_st can save many frames, and substitute portions of one frame with another. Also its output can (should be) input to cyber studio. This software can record single frames on Smart SONY VCRs and Cameras. If this works, I'll let you know. Howard C. Johnson ATT Bell Labs att!lzaz!hcj hcj@lzaz.att.com
JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET (JKT) (01/07/90)
In article <678@alias.UUCP>, rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) writes: > > I am also unsure of what computer platform to choose. > Beside the Amiga, other choices I can see are: > - Atari STE/TT (provides a color palette of 4096), > - Atari ATW (provides 16 million simultaneous colors), Maybe, but just take one look at the tiny amount of software that supports this hardware when compared the the rapidly growing Amiga libaries, and you might change your mind rather quickly. :-) > - Mac II (provides 16 million simultaneous colors). Whoa there. Yes, the Mac II has a 16 million color palette, but the output only handles 256 colors simultaneously, not all 16 million. ^^^ Yes, you may be able to expand this capability, but it will cost you a LOT. Heck, the basic Mac II will cost you a lot too, so you may not have the $$ available to expand to the kind of colors you want. Kurt -- ======================================================================== || Kurt Tappe (814) 862-8630 || Looking for Amigas in all || || 600 E. Pollock Rd., #5705 || the wrong places...... || || State College, PA 16801 -------------------------------------|| || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet or jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 || || or jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu QLink: KurtTappe || ========================================================================
SML108@PSUVM.BITNET (01/07/90)
In article <90006.120601JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET>, JKT <JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET> says: > >In article <678@alias.UUCP>, rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) writes: >> >> I am also unsure of what computer platform to choose. >> Beside the Amiga, other choices I can see are: >> - Atari STE/TT (provides a color palette of 4096), >> - Atari ATW (provides 16 million simultaneous colors), > >Maybe, but just take one look at the tiny amount of software that >supports this hardware when compared the the rapidly growing Amiga >libaries, and you might change your mind rather quickly. :-) > Sheesh, another commode head. When are you guys going to realize that Apple is the enemy, with the lion's share of the pie, whilst you split hairs over the crumbs? Pointlessly for your information, there has been an EXCELLENT line of gen-lock software available for three years now. Yeah the amiga's a little better, but it costs more too. In fact, at the price of the 2000 fully equipped, I'd put out the rest of my non-existent wad and buy security with the Mac II. I develop on both machines.... They're both great, but neither one is better overall. All I know is that PC's suck, period. :) Too bad you can make such a killing off them though... Scott Le Grand "If you like peanuts, you'll LOVE Sci-Fi!"
hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) (01/09/90)
In article <90006.203352SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >In article <90006.120601JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET>, JKT <JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET> says: >> >>In article <678@alias.UUCP>, rhardock@alias.UUCP (Ron Hardock) writes: >>> >>> I am also unsure of what computer platform to choose. >>> Beside the Amiga, other choices I can see are: >>> - Atari STE/TT (provides a color palette of 4096), >>> - Atari ATW (provides 16 million simultaneous colors), >> >>Maybe, but just take one look at the tiny amount of software that >>supports this hardware when compared the the rapidly growing Amiga >>libaries, and you might change your mind rather quickly. :-) >> >Sheesh, another commode head. No need to call anyone names, really. Bad form. >when are you guys going to realize >that Apple is the enemy, with the lion's share of the pie, whilst >you split hairs over the crumbs? A/V Video, a reasonably decent trade publication that a friend has written for (TV*Text review for one), recently placed the Amiga at having a clear dominance of the desktop video market, based on reader replies. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 47%, I believe. Apple is currently slogging it out with the rest of the contenders. I would never underestimate Apple's ability to change this in the future, however. Also, take note of the "FM-Towns" that are currently the hot thing in Japan. NTSC compatable, with built in CD-V units. All they need is a reasonable operating system ;-) >I'd put out the rest of my non-existent wad and buy security with >the Mac II. Currently, I believe the Amiga offers considerably more for the doller than the MacII, if you are interested in certain applications. It works well in non-broadcast enviroments (cablecasting is okay). You don't really need to spend $10,000+ if you are working with SVHS, or older 3/4" equipment, if all you want are titles, and simple animation capability. Believe me, there are a lot of people who fit into this catagory. > >Scott Le Grand "If you like peanuts, you'll LOVE Sci-Fi!" --hal -- ---------------- hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu "Those that won't innovate, litigate" netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet
jmpiazza@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Joseph M. Piazza) (01/09/90)
In article <90006.120601JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET> JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET (JKT) writes: >Whoa there. Yes, the Mac II has a 16 million color palette, but the >output only handles 256 colors simultaneously, not all 16 million. Gee, MINE can show all 16 million -- I assume it's 16; my Control Panel just says "millions." :-) The 256 figure is true for Apple's Extended High-Res Display Video card. >Yes, you may be able to expand this capability, but it will cost you >a LOT. Depends on what you mean be "LOT." Apple's card goes for about $450 discounted. The Raster Ops 264 I have was $796. So for only $350 more you go from 8 bits to 24 bits. Of course for the same $796 I can get an Amiga 500 and a few extra goodies. As for my Mac IIx at work, I don't mind the higher price: I didn't pay for it. :-) What I'm pointing out is that 24 bit color is not so very far from reach. Extra Credit: How about putting an Amiga on a NuBus board and sticking it in a Mac II? Flip side, joe piazza --- In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way around. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 UUCP: ..!{ames,boulder,decvax,rutgers}!sunybcs!jmpiazza GEnie:jmpiazza BITNET: jmpiazza@sunybcs.BITNET Internet: jmpiazza@cs.Buffalo.edu >jkt100@psuvm.bitnet or jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu
SML108@PSUVM.BITNET (01/10/90)
In response to my response to an ST flame... I only call people names when appropriate, I'm not going to knock a great computer, only the attitude of its owner... It's getting even more moot these days. The STE appears to have everything the Amiga originally had over it in a slightly less elegant fashion, and this makes the price difference even more questionable... If only the dimbops would advertise the thing on MTV like the smart people at Commodore. I shouldn't complain though, at least they aren't trying to sell the Lynx by word of mouth (yeah I know about the Amiga/Lynx connection, I LOVE that!) What I really wish would happen is that Apple recruit Atari to make a mac for the home market. The real expertise Atari has is in making hardware dirt cheap. Yes, the Stacy is just that, but if Atari doesn't push the thing, it won't make a gnat's yeast infection of a difference... Commodore deserves to dominate the desktop video market. They entered it the same time as atari, but unlike atari, they supported it, rather than get lost in their own machinations, confusing everyone... My reply was only to the dimwit who aimlessly blasted the ST because of obvious insecurity over the size of his peripherals, rather than actually spouting some truth about the Amiga's dominance of desktop video... Scott
cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Christopher Roth) (01/10/90)
In article <90010.000352SML108@PSUVM.BITNET> SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >In response to my response to an ST flame... > >I only call people names when appropriate, I'm not going to knock a great >computer, only the attitude of its owner... > >It's getting even more moot these days. The STE appears to have everything >the Amiga originally had over it in a slightly less elegant fashion, and this >makes the price difference even more questionable... > >If only the dimbops would advertise the thing on MTV like the smart people at >Commodore. I shouldn't complain though, at least they aren't trying to sell >the Lynx by word of mouth (yeah I know about the Amiga/Lynx connection, I >LOVE that!) > >What I really wish would happen is that Apple recruit Atari to make a mac >for the home market. The real expertise Atari has is in making hardware >dirt cheap. Yes, the Stacy is just that, but if Atari doesn't push the thing, >it won't make a gnat's yeast infection of a difference... > >Commodore deserves to dominate the desktop video market. They entered it the >same time as atari, but unlike atari, they supported it, rather than get lost >in their own machinations, confusing everyone... > My reply was only to the dimwit who aimlessly blasted the ST because of >obvious insecurity over the size of his peripherals, rather than actually >spouting some truth about the Amiga's dominance of desktop video... I think Atari is a great machine. I love my ST and prefer it over any other computer I can think of that I could afford to buy. Right now, it seems to me like there is a hole in the computer market. C64 is going out, and C128 never really was a big deal. There is nothing for the person who doesn't know much about computers, doesn't WANT to know much about computers, or doesn't NEED to know much about them. Nothing for the casual home user who wants to play games and also do some serious stuff on it. The Atari ST could fill this gap, but they do not advertise. Half the people I ask do not even know what an ST is. It is all well and good that things are different in NY and the west coast, but tht isn't going to help Atari. Atari doesn't have a bad image...right now, they have NO image. You guys at Atari listening? I also think that advertising on MTV is DUMB. But it would be smart to get more dealerships open across the US...Buy advertisement in computer magazines. (I was happy to see ATari ST mentioned in Computer Shopper)...support the product! And get rid of some of these distributors that aren't getting products to the dealers that they have...or should have... Tell you what, Atari can hire me as a campaign manager for the US. I'll accept the job for ...oh, to be generous...40,000 a year. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= * Christoper Roth * "Machines have no * InterNet : cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu * Conscience..." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Post No Bills-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JKT100@PSUVM.BITNET (JKT) (01/11/90)
> Extra Credit: How about putting an Amiga on a NuBus board and >sticking it in a Mac II? > Isn't that the bass-ackwards way of doing it? The Amiga has the hardware-based multitasking, so it would make much more sense to plug a Mac-II into an Amiga, not the other way around. :-) Kurt -- ======================================================================== || Kurt Tappe (814) 862-8630 || "This town needs an enema." || || 600 E. Pollock Rd., #5705 || - Joker || || State College, PA 16801 || || || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet or --------------------------------------|| || jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 or jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu || ========================================================================