C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) (01/09/90)
Most of you who read this newsgroup have known about the Commodore Amiga Ad campaign of this past Christmas season for several months. However, for those who haven't, or if you want to get a little more info on the subject, check out Amazing Computing. Their Christmas issue has a nice report on the whole affair. The issue also includes an open letter to TIME in regard to that magazine's anti-Amiga, anti-computer industry article. I heard a rumor (or truth?) that Amazing Computing uses Macs to produce its magazine. Before, I thought that was pretty bad... but on the other hand, it might indicate that they aren't as "Amiga is God!" as AmigaWorld and INFO are purported to be. In other words, Amazing isn't blindingly pro-Amiga; they maintain a realistic view of things. Could this be true?! :-) -- Baird # INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet #
840445m@aucs.uucp (Alan McKay) (01/10/90)
In article <7709@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: > >I heard a rumor (or truth?) that Amazing Computing uses Macs to produce its >magazine. Before, I thought that was pretty bad... but on the other hand, it ># INTERNET: c503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu <-or-> BITNET: c503719@umcvmb.bitnet # Yes, Amazing does use Macs to produce the magazine. I remember a few years ago (Gosh, has it been that long ?!) there was an article or maybe an editorial explaining this. Obviously when the Amiga first came out there was no way they could have used it for such a task, the software simply did not exist. Now there is software but it would be too much of a hassle for them to change. I used to think this was bad but what you mentioned makes perfect sennse, it means they tend to be a little more open minded about anything that is not Amiga. -- + Alan W. McKay + VOICE: (902) 542-1565 + + Acadia University + "Courage my friend, it is not yet too late + + WOLFVILLE, N.S. + to make the world a better place." + + 840445m@AcadiaU.CA + - Tommy Douglas +
ln63wkp@sdcc4.ucsd.edu (RenderMan) (01/10/90)
In article <7709@nigel.udel.EDU> C503719@umcvmb.missouri.edu (Baird McIntosh) writes: >affair. The issue also includes an open letter to TIME in regard to that >magazine's anti-Amiga, anti-computer industry article. Oh, incidentally, TIME magazine post some rebuttals from Amiga users (two) in their letter's column in the Jan 1 issue (the one with Gorby as man of the decade). -Viet vho@ucsd.edu
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/13/90)
In <25888@cup.portal.com>, Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com writes: >The local book store puts Mac and IBM journals >on the main rack and the Amiga ones on the back of a revolving rack. Yes, I think the Amiga is definitely downplayed Julie, but I really wonder how a magazine can be placed on the back of a revolving rack. ;-) -larry -- "Cavett Emptor - Let the talk show host beware!" - Evan Marcus +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com (01/14/90)
With regard to ad campaigns and advertising in general. I've been
noticing a lot of blatant, but also a lot of subtle discrimination against
the Amiga. A local computer retailer which carries Mac, Amiga and IBM
magazines puts all the Mac and IBM journals at eye level and the Amiga
ones on the bottom shelf. The local book store puts Mac and IBM journals
on the main rack and the Amiga ones on the back of a revolving rack. Lately,
instead of hunting around for the darn things, I've taken to asking the
store clerk where they are. I figure then perhaps they'll realize people
do read them.
But, on a more insidious level--our company recently sent a listing to
a computer directory. Our products are 100% Amiga, but in the directory, we
wanted to keep our options open and indicated that there might be products
available for Mac and IBM computers. We listed Amiga first and then maybes
by Mac and IBM. When the directory came out, they changed our listing and
placed Mac and IBM first and Amiga at the end. Everything else in the
listing was taken verbatim from the information we supplied. I wonder how
many other company and product directories are doing this?
J. Petersen (LadyHawke@cup.portal.com)nic@marque.mu.edu (01/16/90)
In article <1014@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <25888@cup.portal.com>, Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com writes: >>The local book store puts Mac and IBM journals >>on the main rack and the Amiga ones on the back of a revolving rack. > >Yes, I think the Amiga is definitely downplayed Julie, but I really wonder how >a magazine can be placed on the back of a revolving rack. ;-) > >-larry > The idea that the Amiga is downplayed is one that seems to crop up from time to time, often accompanied by complaints of collusion on the part of booksellers and retailers. This strikes me as (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) a sort of victimization response, but, who are the victims here? We all made the decision to buy our favorite machines because we saw in them some benefit over the others in the marketplace, we demonstrated free will. Contrast that to those poor folk that purchased MACs or IBMs because they had to for their jobs or classes. I, for one, am proud and glad that I purchased my first Amiga back in October of '85. Within three months of delivery I had installed it in an access control application at a client's facility, where it has been humming away 24 hours a day, ever since. The built in support for speech and menu driven data entry systems made it a shoo-in for the task. And, when friends in the business ask me why I chose Amiga, I need simply to point to the bottom line! When I go to my local Software Etc. store, I find a large rack of Amiga magazines (more than I would ever want to read), placed right at eye level on the first rack in the store, IBM gets the bottom shelf and MAC is on the back. What bothers me more is that most of the software they carry is games, but then they are responding to the market. They had a Lattice C compiler in once, it sat there for 4 months (I would have bought it, but I allready own Manx). If you complain about your local dealers, let me ask a simple question: Where do you buy your hardware and software? Do you get it at your local dealer, ore ask him to order it for you? Or, do you order it mailorder, because it's cheaper? Any of these businesses are just that, Businesses. They're in it for the money, just like Commodore, or Haitex or Micro-Illusions, etc. If you want them to serve you, you must let them know that you are willing to spend your money there. A number of developers were burnt by C= in the early days, so were alot of users (I even felt that way sometimes, remember the promises of GraphiCraft, or Excell?) The last thing that retailers want is another C-64 community, which begs for support and then runs to the cheapest mailorder seller. A supportive users community can make or break the success of any machine, IBM users demanded quality, and demonstrated a willingness to pay the price when the bill came due. It would serve us well to do likewise. I apologise if I've offended anyone out there. It's just that I've been with this machine since the start, and I get a little tired of this whining every once in a while. I demand very little from Commodore, the third parties, or my dealers. I haven't even bought a piece of software or hardware in almost a year (no, I DO NOT pirate, nor support it!). I know, however, that when I am ready to make a demand upon these people, there will be support, somewhere, and I will find it and reward it. -Nic
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (01/17/90)
I have to agree with Nic in the general case. I want to support all the businesses who support Our Favorite Machine. But my local dealer charges $130-150 for a package that the local mail order dealer charges $100. I only buy inexpensive stuff from the local dealer because I can't afford his prices. I shop there and demo stuff there and feel guilty about it but the last two expensive packages I bought were bought mail order. I wish he'd lower his prices some. He doesn't have to match the mail order because I want to support his policy of demoing stuff. I know it costs money. But 30-50% is more "support" than I can handle. Maybe he'll get some competition in the future and then lower his prices. Maybe. Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com
eberger@godot.psc.edu (Ed Berger) (01/17/90)
In article <26028@cup.portal.com> FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) writes: >I have to agree with Nic in the general case. I want to support all >the businesses who support Our Favorite Machine. But my local >dealer charges $130-150 for a package that the local mail order >dealer charges $100. I really wanted to support one of my local dealers (the one with software). I saw the Brand New PagesetterII, and thought Great! They got it in, and it costs ~129 (AS the Gold Disk AD states), the price marked on the package was... $199.99 SEVENTY DOLLARS over LIST PRICE!!! This discrepancy was kindly pointed out to a salescreature, who went and looked at some binder, and said the price marked is correct... sigh. I called Safe Harbor to get a mail order price comparison... $80.99 >I only buy inexpensive stuff from the local >dealer because I can't afford his prices. I shop there and demo >stuff there and feel guilty about it but the last two expensive packages >I bought were bought mail order. I wish he'd lower his prices some. If the local dealer doesn't know how to get your business, Thats his problem, not yours. If he has decided that it isn't in his best interests to offer software at a reasonable amount over mail-order, thats his decision. Don't feel guilty. You only have to decide how much it is worth to you having him there. I like to be able to browse the new software, but at >100% over mail-order, not to mention the usual slow pace that stuff trickles in... I am willing to pay list for some products, and over mail-order by a reasonable amount for others. where the convenience of local shopping and support is important. >He doesn't have to match the mail order because I want to support his >policy of demoing stuff. I know it costs money. But 30-50% is more >"support" than I can handle. > >Maybe he'll get some competition in the future and then lower his >prices. Maybe. Open your own store, Give him competition now! Do mail-order to insure volume. Have a toll free number I can call! Oh I can dream too... -Ed Berger eberger@b.psc.edu
dwl10@uts.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) (01/18/90)
In article <733@godot.psc.edu> eberger@godot.UUCP (Ed Berger) writes: >In article <26028@cup.portal.com> FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) writes: >If the local dealer doesn't know how to get your business, Thats his >problem, not yours. If he has decided that it isn't in his best interests >to offer software at a reasonable amount over mail-order, thats his >decision. Don't feel guilty. > There are also other things to consider about a dealer: - Does he have knowledgable people working for him? - Is he honest - Does he provide "bonus" services, such as Demoing software, providing PD disk collections, providing a discount to "frequent buyers". The local "full service dealer" here in Houston really looses out on the "bonus" services. They want $4.50 PLUS a blank disk for FISH disks! They have no sort of discount to frequent buyers. They charge a 25% "re-stocking fee" on all returns. A store I went to in Boston (The Memory location) has a "club". For $25 (or so), you get a 10% discount on all purchases, you get to copy FISH disks for free, etc. Now that's a good deal! So, before you plunk down your hard earned bucks at a local dealer, make sure that they deserve them. It's not a crime to pay more locally than you would mailorder, but just be sure you get something for that extra $$$! -- "What is another word | Dave Lowrey | [The opinions expressed MAY be for 'Thesaurus'?" | Amdahl Corp. | those of the author and are not | Houston, Texas | necessarily those of his Steven Wright | amdahl!dwl10 | employer] (`nuff said!)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (01/19/90)
In <26094@cup.portal.com>, Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com writes: >> Yes, I think the Amiga is definitely downplayed Julie, but I really wonder >> how a magazine can be placed on the back of a revolving rack. ;-) > >> -larry > >Well, Larry, it's one of those that you have to muscle to turn it, and when >you do, it threatens to fall over on top of you. To add to the annoyance, >it's jammed up against a corner, so people don't generally attempt to turn >the beast. Since my previous post, I noticed they've removed it. Now the >Amiga magazines are on THEIR bottom shelf. Sheesh. Heh heh.. maybe they read your posting. :-) BTW, have you still got my camera? -larry -- "Cavett Emptor - Let the talk show host beware!" - Evan Marcus +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com (01/19/90)
> Yes, I think the Amiga is definitely downplayed Julie, but I really wonder > how a magazine can be placed on the back of a revolving rack. ;-) > -larry Well, Larry, it's one of those that you have to muscle to turn it, and when you do, it threatens to fall over on top of you. To add to the annoyance, it's jammed up against a corner, so people don't generally attempt to turn the beast. Since my previous post, I noticed they've removed it. Now the Amiga magazines are on THEIR bottom shelf. Sheesh. Julie (LadyHawke@cup.portal.com)
filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) (01/21/90)
In article <26094@cup.portal.com> Julie Petersen (LadyHawke) writes: >[...] Since my previous post, I noticed they've removed it. Now the >Amiga magazines are on THEIR bottom shelf. Sheesh. hmmm... Have you considered guerilla tactics? Move all the Amiga magazines up to the most visible shelf, swapping down whatever's currently taking up that space. ;-} If the salesmonster wants to know what you're doing, just candidly explain that you're sick of this 3rd-class treatment... * Vote in progress: comp.sys.amiga.hardware; ends 1/22. See call for votes * * in news.announce.newgroups. Unambiguous YES/NO's to trent@ucscb.ucsc.edu * -- Bela Lubkin * * // filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us CI$: 73047,1112 (slow) @ * * // belal@sco.com ..ucbvax!ucscc!{gorn!filbo,sco!belal} R Pentomino * \X/ Filbo @ Pyrzqxgl +408-476-4633 and XBBS +408-476-4945