) Seaman) (01/23/90)
kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) writes: < (Bob Lindabury) writes: < -> Who the heck are you to be telling the MAJORITY < -> of users out there what they should or shouldn't be using or doing? < < I'm not. I'm saying that they haven't the right to force me to pick up < the mouse. Ever. That's fair. Not everyone likes the mouse (nor should they have to). < -> the need for a small CLI based utility but that also goes hand in < -> require that everyone out there in the Amiga community learn < -> scripts? You might as well try pissing into the wind. < < No, but I would like to ban any archiver that cannot be run < interactively. I'd also like to see archivers for which there is no < publically available source be left to rot as they should be. That's a bit extreme, don't you think? Simply because you don't like a particular program or its interface is not sufficient reason for its demise. Additionally, the complete file formats and compression algorithms for PKAZip ARE in the public domain. Anyone can produce a CLI version if they wish, or for UNIX, VMS, or whatever other OS might benefit. < [ Comparison of zip vs. zoo regarding keystrokes/maouse 'clicks' ] < < Me: extract * < < You: clickety click, start Zip < clickety click, click, click, select all the archives you want to < extract. < clickety, click on the "extract" button. Actually, you would have to type (something along the lines of): makedir zoofiles<CR> cd zoofiles<CR> copy df0:#?.zoo ""<CR> copy df1:#?.lzh ""<CR> extract * My point is that your .lzh or .zoo or .zip or .nameyourfavoritearchiver files don't magically appear in a common directory. You may also need to REMOVE some files from that directory (if it already existed) which you DO NOT want re-extracted. It is easy to make arguments from both sides that show the weaknesses of the other. That was not why I started this discussion in the first place. < -> You know, the world doesn't revolve around you people who are heavy < -> CLI users. < < Yes, it does. Show me a programmer who uses a clickety-click interface < exclusively (or even mostly) and I'll show you a Hypercard user. OK, you're looking at (figuratively) a guy who makes his living from programming, who very much perfers a GUI (also known as a 'clickity-click' interface), and has NEVER used a Macintosh. < My complaints are based on < (1) the unavailability of a small cli-based Zip and As I have said, I can understand this. It is, I am sure, very high on the priority list for the next release. < (2) the sysops of many boards forcing all uploads to be Zipped because < a fraction of the users don't know how to type (although they managed < to figure out the CLI-based BBS pretty well... skypix ain't that < popular you know). I don't think it is fair to judge someone as being unable to type simply because they have realized that it is possible, for most tasks, to be more efficient from a graphical interface than from a CLI. < I cut down on those [whose opinions] force me to take up my precious < disk space, quit my terminal just to de-archive stuff lest it crash, < use the mouse, look at colors which are *not* my preferences (isn't < the name of the program - "preferences" - enough?), look at a low-res < screen, use a different archiver on Unix, and abandon all my < time-honored procedures. As a matter of fact, I'm a pretty lousy C < programmer. But my system runs real smoothly, and all I ask is that it < stay that way. I've seen this mentioned by you before. Apparently you haven't tried the palette 'button'. It allows you to set your color preferences to your liking, although it will not change the screen resolution (although I fail to see what is wrong with using a screen mode which is supported by the OS). < -> I feel the PKAZIP interface is elegant and not "hideous". < < That's nice. Obviously, so did the designers. In fact, they probably < thought it was "wicked rad ]<uel" or something. However, a lot fewer < people would have complained had their program paid attention to the < user's preferences rather than assuming everyone likes low-res < greyscale. I doubt the developers of PKAZip quite understand 'wicked rad ]<uel', whatever that is intended to mean. See above for description of how to alleviate the grayscale. Again, I fail to see how an interlaced screen (which would eat up MORE memory) would have made any difference in the function of the application. < -> Zoo, give me a break! Yes, it's time for a CLI only version of ZIP < -> but let's not go backwards to Zoo or the horrible alphabet soup of < -> LHArc! < < How is Zoo going backwards when most Amiga/Unix users still use it < regularly? Most Net postings are in that format, in fact. If zoo had a better compression algorithm, coupled with Intuition support (leaving the CLI interface intact), I would have no complaints. However, one of the credos of zoo is that there will never be any changes to the compression format, since that would force everyone to upgrade in order to use it. Therefore, zoo is what it is, and will most likely not improve. < I've been archiving stuff and unarchiving stuff for years as the sysop < of two BBSes and user of hundreds, and now Usenet. I've put a great < deal of thought into what makes a good archiver. There are solutions < for those who are uncomfortable with the CLI-only archivers; < currently, there is no solution for those who are uncomfortable with < the Intuition-only Zip, let alone those of us who would automate our < work. Can you concede at least that much? I would like to think that there are others of us out here as capable of determining what is or is not a good archiver. For myself, I keep a copy of lharc around on the slim chance that I need to de-archive something in that format. I would never consider using it, due to its speed, or lack thereof. I like zoo, but, as I said, would prefer better compression (zip beats it by as much as 30%), and a graphic front end (if you can recommend one, I would be willing to try it). For my personal archives, I will most likely use zip, since it gives comparable compression to lharc (+/- 1% in most cases) without the wait. < -- < Robert Jude Kudla <kudla@pawl.rpi.edu> -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | /--\ crs@cpsc6a.att.com <or> | | | "This is as real as ...!att!cpsc6a!crs | | \ | your so-called 'Life' gets" The Home of the Killer Smiley | \--X__
dorf@iesd.auc.dk (Thomas Dorf Nielsen) (01/24/90)
The "fight" in Article 29110 of comp.sys.amiga led me to the following questions: 1: Where can Zip/PKAZip be FTP'ed from (addresses)? 2: What _is_ actually the best (fastest / best compressing / easiest to use) archiver around? Answer here or via mail - as you like. Have a nice day, and HEY! - Let's be carefull out there! Thomas -- dorf@iesd.auc.dk /|__|\__/|__|\ | | Where does he get | /\/\ /\/\ | those Wonderful toys?