NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) (10/23/87)
Oops!
Well, after my initial glowing report, I managed to get VizaWrite
to die several times yesterday.
I placed a stock graphic (the supplied VizaWrite logo) and placed it
at the top of a page. Played around with resizing it a little. Then tried
to find my cursor -- I eventually did, but I swear it had disappeared for
a while. Started typing some text, decided I didn't like the font, and
selected a different one. Started typing, and KABOOM!
Tried doing the same things a second time, and noticed the cursor was
behaving strangely. It would not tab correctly, and I had problems
repositioning it in areas that previously held text.
Finished my typing, saved the file. Reset the machine, and tried to
reopen the file. After some disk whirring, the screen went black, and
stayed that way. No software errors, no Gurus, nothing. Gave up, for
lack of time.
Before this, I really had been impressed by VizaWrite. It works very
similar to MacWrite, with all the same capabilities. The output (even
graphics) looks good, definitely comparable to a MacWrite/Imagewriter
combination. I really hope the general flakiness of the program can
be fixed, and quickly, because it has a lot of potential. I guess now
I will wait for the rumored WordPerfect 5.0, which will support graphics
and (hopefully) bitmapped fonts.
Hal netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet
jdn@homxc.UUCP (J.NAGY) (12/09/87)
Some time ago, Atari announced a laser printer, but I haven't
seen any talk about the printer or software for Desktop Publishing
in the ST newsgroup recently.
1. Does a laser printer exist? Can I easily buy one?
2. Does Desktop Publishing software for the ST exist?
How do these products (if they exist) compare with Desktop Publishing
on the Amiga and Mac? Any input on the various laser printers available,
your personal experiences with the printers and software, caveats,
recommendations, etc. is very mcuh appreciated.
Thanks,
Jonathan Nagy
{ihnp4|allegra|mtune}!homxc!jdn
(201) 615-4349870646c@aucs.UUCP (barry comer) (12/11/87)
There is indeed Desktop Publishing software out for the ST, it compares very well against the MAC, and the sort. The "Publishing Partner" and "Fleet Street" programs are full blown publishing programs, I gave a demo of the "Publishing Partner" to local printing shops last summer and they were impressed. If I can be of anymore help let me know Later Barry
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (12/11/87)
[Note the edited groups above ^^^ ] In article <2420@homxc.UUCP> jdn@homxc.UUCP (J.NAGY) writes: >Some time ago, Atari announced a laser printer, but I haven't >seen any talk about the printer or software for Desktop Publishing >in the ST newsgroup recently. > 1. Does a laser printer exist? Can I easily buy one? Yes, and No. I have seen the Laser printer and played with it, however all of the Atari dealers in the Silicon Valley say 'Real Soon Now'. They also say it will cost >$1,500. (Plus you have to buy a Mega ST) This apparently is a classic missed market window, since Jade Computers was selling the Genicom standalone laser printer for $999 ($1,399 with serial port, 2Meg or ram, and HP LaserJet II emulation). This you could use on any machine. > 2. Does Desktop Publishing software for the ST exist? I believe it does, but can't say for sure, on the Amiga there is PageSetter, CityDesk, ProWrite, Publisher 1000 (and Publisher Plus), and Shakespear. (sorry if I missed any). >How do these products (if they exist) compare with Desktop Publishing >on the Amiga and Mac? Any input on the various laser printers available, >your personal experiences with the printers and software, caveats, >recommendations, etc. is very much appreciated. I'm not sure how they compare, there has been some disappointment from Amiga users in that the system was not designed for 'infinite' resolution printers like the Mac was. Things like the fonts which are simple bitmaps (rather than outline descriptions) do not scale well and that causes output to look 'blocky'. Fortunately, there is no reason why this can't be fixed in a future release and retain compatibility. Also some programs use the Amiga fonts for the display and then their own for printing. Either way you win. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) (12/12/87)
In article <2420@homxc.UUCP>, jdn@homxc.UUCP (J.NAGY) writes: > > 1. Does a laser printer exist? Can I easily buy one? Yes it does exist, but only a few have shipped to dealers in the USA. Which makes it not so easy to buy one at this moment. We are optimistic that a better supply situation will exist shortly. > 2. Does Desktop Publishing software for the ST exist? Yes, there are several titles now and more coming. Right now the favorite seems to be Publishing Partner from Softlogik. The latest revision (1.3) of this one supports the Atari laser, as well as dot- matrix printers and Postscript. Easy Draw 2.0 is also popular, and it uses GDOS which makes Atari laser printer support automatic. Fleet Street Publisher is also available, and they tell me the next rev (due at any moment) also supports the Atari laser printer. On the way are Deskset, a typesetting package from G.O. Graphics and being sold by Atari; Publishing Partner 2.0 with some great improvements and speedups; and a full-featured DTP package from Migraph (the Easy Draw folks); but not, so it now seems, Ready Set Go, which is not going. -- --->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
trb@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) (12/13/87)
In article <2420@homxc.UUCP> jdn@homxc.UUCP (J.NAGY) writes: > 1. Does a laser printer exist? Can I easily buy one? Yes. No. I saw and touched the laser printer out at Comdex, but have yet to see them for sale locally. It is also available from other companies for the IBM PC, so I would imagine the delays are more supply/demand related than vaporware related. > 2. Does Desktop Publishing software for the ST exist? Yes. I saw several packages at the show. Publishing Partner 2.0 looked very nice (much changed from the first few versions that hit the street). For those with more expensive tastes, the 'preferred' package that Atari seemed to push was a package from a company whose name started with G.O. (sorry, my Comdex literature is all packed up for the next Atari Meeting...pretty ragged from the first one...so the names escape me). That package was expensive, but very complete. It appeared to have all the functionality of the BIG packages on the PC and MAC (in fact it is offered on the PC). Even lino-type support. -Todd Burkey trb@stag.UUCP
c60a-2ae@web3e.berkeley.edu.BERKELEY.EDU (John Kawakami -O^O-,Dorm,1234567,7654321) (12/15/87)
_The Graphic Artist_ by PGA is also applicable to DP, although it seems to be better at illustrations. A tad complex, but very advanced. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ John Kawakami c60a-2ae@widow.berkeley.edu -0~0- Can't go left in General Pinochet's Cadillac.... +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
cheung@vu-vlsi.UUCP (Wilson Cheung) (03/05/88)
Has anyone tried using Publishing Partner Professional? According to an add in Amiga World it is better than Page Setter. If anyone has used this software, does it support 640x400 Iff graphics? Does it allow multiple fonts per line, and a easy interface to switch between fonts. What I am looking for is a Desktop publisher capable of implementing mathematical equations and greek characters with ease, and I stress with EASE. I also want the capability to easily put labels on imported graphics; with fPageSetter if I want to put text ON the graphics I have to go into the graphics editor, which is terrible if I suddenly decide to move the text or change fonts. Also how good is Publishing Partner Professional's gray scaling. Wilson Cheung :wq!
lel@wuphys.UUCP (Lyle E. Levine) (03/06/88)
In article <1401@vu-vlsi.UUCP> cheung@vu-vlsi.UUCP (Wilson Cheung) writes: > > Has anyone tried using Publishing Partner Professional? According >to an add in Amiga World it is better than Page Setter. > > If anyone has used this software, does it support 640x400 Iff graphics? >Does it allow multiple fonts per line, and a easy interface to switch between >fonts. What I am looking for is a Desktop publisher capable of implementing >mathematical equations and greek characters with ease, and I stress with EASE. >I also want the capability to easily put labels on imported graphics; with >fPageSetter if I want to put text ON the graphics I have to go into the graphics >editor, which is terrible if I suddenly decide to move the text or change >fonts. Also how good is Publishing Partner Professional's gray scaling. > > > Wilson Cheung >:wq! This program is not available yet but should be in about 1-2 months. I saw a long demo of the current version at our local Amiga Club. In a word: FANTASTIC!!! It does everything I have ever seen done by this type of program and does it better. Unfortunately, I'm not going to get it. It doesn't do mathematical typesetting. ARGH!!!! It does have fantastic output though, since it uses its own scaling fonts. (Defined by curves, not pixels). Any further questions? The guy that is writing it goes to my school. ========== IBM is a Division of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation "their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws." - "So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" Lyle Levine: Paths -> ihnp4!wuphys!lel uunet!wucs!wuphys!lel
cs178abu@sdcc8.ucsd.EDU (John Schultz) (03/07/88)
> Has anyone tried using Publishing Partner Professional? According >to an add in Amiga World it is better than Page Setter. > > Wilson Cheung Publishing Partner Professional (from Soft Logic) is due out "the second week of March", which is this week. I ordered it direct two months ago after seeing Gold Disk's Professional Page (words can't describe it). Anyway, unlike Professional Page, Publishing Partner does not force the user to postscript output only. In fact, they state that they will drive your printer to it's maximum resolution, regardless of whether it is ps compatible or not. Looks like an HP Laserjet series 2 and Publishing Partner is the way to go for low cost Amiga desktop publishing. It also supports color, comes with color seperation at no extra cost, and all of the other neat things that Professional Page advertises. But, until it is released, it's not better than anyth... John
denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) (03/10/89)
Dave Scroggins writes:
"...I really do not understand why the AMIGA has not yet been used to do decent
Desktop Publishing. It seems to me as though the required hardware is there or
available, but the software to do it is a joke."
Does everyone know what "deadly embrace" is? The world of computer marketing is
plagued by it. In this case, it goes like this:
Customers don't see the Amiga as a vehicle for Desktop Publishing, since there
is no good software to do it. Therefore, the big publishers don't think the
customer base is present to justify development of such a product. Therefore
the Customers don't see any software, so they don't see the Amiga as a vehicle
for Desktop... sigh.
It's not just this one case, EVERY aspect of a new computer is treated this
way. There will be certain products for which the existence of the computer
creates a known demand: compilers, editors, graphics editors on a graphics
machine. But for everything else you get deadly embrace.
It gets broken one of two ways:
1. A small company breaks the ice with a reasonably good product and makes
loads of bucks from it. There is now a proved customer base, and all the big
companies jump in. [So far as I know, the only Amiga area fitting this scenario
is games.]
2. Some big company decides to take a chance. [I know of no such case with the
Amiga.]
Other than that, support mainly comes from small companies like ASDG who don't
need as big a sales volume to survive.
The only way I've heard to bypass this deadlock is for the manufacturer of the
new machine to guarantee large sales. For the PC, IBM could do this just by
being IBM. Everyone knew that the PC would sell big, so no-one was afraid of
it. For the Mac, Apple did it for certain programs by distributing them with
the Mac. Commodore isn't big enough to do like IBM, nor has it the financial
resources to do what Apple did.
So we'll just have to limp along with the small suppliers for a couple more
years. And, you know what? In some ways I think we're better off for it.
The small suppliers listen to us.
Steven C. Den Beste, BBN Communications Corp., Cambridge MA
denbeste@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)dnye@bbn.com (David Nye) (03/12/89)
>Dave Scroggins writes: >"...I really do not understand why the AMIGA has not yet been used to do decent >Desktop Publishing. It seems to me as though the required hardware is there or >available, but the software to do it is a joke." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ How can anyone in there right mind DECLARE the ALL the Desktop Publishing for the AMIGA is a JOKE!!!!!????? Professional Page CAN DO EVERYTHING if no MOST of the Operations that the best M*C Desktop Pub can do or is thinking of doing. If I am wrong please state specifics. But Professional Page is *** N O T *** a JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No offence Dave and Steve but I don't think you have looked at the Desktop publishers for the AMIGA hard enuff. In article <37074@bbn.COM> denbeste@BBN.COM (Steven Den Beste) writes: > >Does everyone know what "deadly embrace" is? The world of computer marketing is >plagued by it. In this case, it goes like this: > >Customers don't see the Amiga as a vehicle for Desktop Publishing, since there >is no good software to do it. Therefore, the big publishers don't think the >customer base is present to justify development of such a product. Therefore >the Customers don't see any software, so they don't see the Amiga as a vehicle >for Desktop... sigh. The Software is there just nobody SELLS it, READ PUSHES IT Enuff. I'd like to see a side by side comparison, side by side on the same table, doing the same type of publishing. I am convinced that if a customer saw them side by side they would go AMIGA. ONLY AMIGA can do it for BETTER for LESS!!!! > >Steven C. Den Beste, BBN Communications Corp., Cambridge MA >denbeste@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Dave Nye -- President, Southern New Hampshire AMIGA Users Group = ==== dnye@bbn.com dnye%bbn.com@relay.cs.net ...!harvard!bbn!dnye = -- BBN, Inc., Cambridge, Mass., My Employers computer, MY opinion.. = ===============================================================================
raw@mcnc.org (Russell Williams) (03/14/89)
In article <37112@bbn.COM>, dnye@bbn.com (David Nye) writes: > >Dave Scroggins writes: > Steven C. Den Beste writes: The Software is there just nobody SELLS it, READ PUSHES IT Enuff. > I'd like to see a side by side comparison, side by side on the same table, > doing the same type of publishing. I am convinced that if a customer saw them > side by side they would go AMIGA. > > ONLY AMIGA can do it for BETTER for LESS!!!! Um, I really hate having to do this, but one thing that has continually bothered me is the poor Desktop publishing for the Amiga. It certainly is a cheaper computer, and I'm not real sure why it doesn't give good output. I havenever seen a product for the amiga that gives good non-jagged fonts on a dot matrix printer. The mac, on the other hand, gives fairly nice output on their Imagewriters. Now, I love my amiga, and I wouldn't part with it for the world, but if I wanted to do desktop publishing as a personal business, I would have a mac instead of an amiga. Luckily, my major use for it is writing, and I don't care about fonts when I submit stories. Also, on a somewhat similar note, why doesn't the amiga have the fonts integrated into the system software? I really hate having fonts be a particularpart of a program, instead of being universally available for all programs with no work being necessary. Russell Williams
cthulhu@athena.mit.edu (Jim Reich) (03/14/89)
In article <10923@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >In article <794@zehntel.UUCP> donw@zehntel.UUCP (Don White) writes: >>In article <10901@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >>> Notice that I didn't put Desktop publishing or Desktop video or >>>Games up there. You want Desktop publishing? You go to Apple. [ ... ] >> >> Leo, don't we have a solid base of desktop publishing programs >> available now? [ ... ] > > Not as far as I'm concerned. We may have a few neat parlor tricks, >but the Mac is already entrenched. The Mac was a paper-generator since Day >One. As such, the desktop publishing technology and software is more mature >on the Mac. As far as traditional desktop publishing, you may be right, especially with all the talk about pagestream's *minor* bugginess. But we DO have AmigaTeX, which is, as far as I can tell, the best implementation of TeX I have ever seen on any computer. For most purposes, LaTeX produces better results than anything on the mac, and for desktop publishing purposes, a good TeX macro package should beat anything out there for sheer power. In addition, the AmigaTeX printer drivers on my 18pin OKI292 gives output which is, when photocopied on a good machine, virtually indistinguishable from Laser output, and at decent speeds, too. -- Jim
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) (03/15/89)
In article <4179@alvin.mcnc.org> raw@mcnc.org (Russell Williams) writes: > I have never seen a product for the amiga that gives good non-jagged fonts > on a dot matrix printer. > > Russell Williams Check out the output from `AmigaTeX' on a 24-pin dot-matrix printer .... better yet, check out its output on a LaserJet!!! AmigaTeX is available from Radical-Eye Software Box 2081 Stanford, CA 94309 Voice - (415)- 32-AMIGA BBS - (415)- 32-RADIO Standard Disclaimers - Just a satisfied user of the product
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (03/15/89)
In article <9803@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> cthulhu@athena.mit.edu (Jim Reich) writes: >In article <10923@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >>In article <794@zehntel.UUCP> donw@zehntel.UUCP (Don White) writes: >>> Leo, don't we have a solid base of desktop publishing programs [ ... ] >> >> Not as far as I'm concerned. [ ... ] > >But we DO have AmigaTeX, which >is, as far as I can tell, the best implementation of TeX I have ever seen on >any computer. [ ... ] Oh yeah. I forgot about AmigaTeX. That is a very sTudLY package. However, I hear more about Mac DTP applications than I do about TeX in general. Why is this? Is it because TeX is a daunting beast, and looks like it's difficult to learn? Hmmmm... _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
sterling@cbmvax.UUCP (Rick Sterling QA) (03/15/89)
In article <10976@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > Oh yeah. I forgot about AmigaTeX. That is a very sTudLY package. > > However, I hear more about Mac DTP applications than I do about TeX > in general. Why is this? Is it because TeX is a daunting beast, and looks > like it's difficult to learn? Hmmmm... > > Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU For creating your local user group newsletter I recommended sticking with the WYSIWYG DTP products ... fairly easy to use by the novice,etc .... When you need to do professional typesetting though, AmigaTeX has no peer. I used the package for 2-3 weeks with no docs and manage to create a wide variety of documents that have some folks around here shaking their heads in disbelief ;-) The package includes LaTeX and a bunch of STYLE files that that makes it fairly trivial to create articles, letters, reports, books, slides and other standard formats. As a computer techo-weenie-programmer type, I've found the TeX environment very comfortable. ============================================================================= Rick Sterling COMMODORE AMIGA TEST ENGINEERING N2CGI UUCP {allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling =============================================================================
steve@dcdwest.UUCP (Steve Meloche) (03/17/89)
In article <37074@bbn.COM>, denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) writes: > ... > Does everyone know what "deadly embrace" is? The world of computer marketing is > plagued by it. In this case, it goes like this: > > Customers don't see the Amiga as a vehicle for Desktop Publishing, since there > is no good software to do it. Therefore, the big publishers don't think the > customer base is present to justify development of such a product. Therefore > the Customers don't see any software, so they don't see the Amiga as a vehicle > for Desktop... sigh. > > ... > I had an example of this just today. We are using the Douglas Professional CAD system at work on a MAC II. The schematic editor that is sold by Douglas is actually Capilano's Design Works package. Anyway, I was talking to someone in tech. support from Capilano today, so I took the opportunity to ask him about their Amiga program. He hastily pointed out that Logic Works is a much simpler program that they did not intend to be used for serious (i.e. professional) work. He said that it is for education, or if someone wanted to "connect together a few gates at home." I had sort of hoped that I could use it to get work done at home and upload it to work later, but he said the file formats are completely incompatible. I asked if they were planning on upgrading LogicWorks, and he said that he didn't think so as they didn't think that the Amiga was a serious work machine. (He did say it was a great hackers' machine, though). Why, said I? He replied that whenever he looked in an Amiga magazine, well over half of the advertise- ments were for games, and where the advertising is is where the market must be. Thus, the deadly embrace rears it's ugly head again. He also noted that Commodore didn't seem to be pushing the Amiga for any professional uses except video, in contrast to some other computer companies... sigh again. > Steven C. Den Beste, BBN Communications Corp., Cambridge MA > denbeste@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP) _____ _____ _____ Steven Meloche | ` | ' ` | ' ITT Defense Communications Division | | | San Diego, CA __|__ | | steve!dcdwest!ucsdhub!... Q. What do Atomic bombs, lawyers, and IBM PCs have in common? A. We don't like them, but everybody else has one so we had better get one too!
hyper%firedart@Sun.COM (Robin Greynolds) (09/06/89)
Hello,
I own an Amiga (500, 1M, 20M hd) and am interested in Desk Top Publishing
software. From what I can gather, there are several available packages.
If anyone can provide me with comparisons/contrasts/pros/cons on the following
packages (or others) it would be greatly appreciated.
1. Professional Page
2. PageStream
3. City Desk 2.0
Please e-mail me and I will post responses if there is enough interest.
Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robin Greynolds | "My onions are my own...
hyper@firedart.Eng.Sun.COM | You can't have any!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jim.Priestle@afitamy.fidonet.org (Jim Priestle) (02/09/90)
Seems to be little interest in DPT on the Amiga. Mostly Video stuff. But,
with the great scanners and programs that are more reliable out now, this
should change, no? Want I want to know is about Compugraphic Characters, how
do they work, And how good are they on an inkjet, 24-pin, and 9-pin. I am
used to working in bit-mapped only and I am pretty sure I can get good print
out without buying a postscript printer, or are they coming down in price?
Also, if you want decent pics in DTP, do you HAVE to have a scanner. -jim-
--
-------------------------------------------------
Jim Priestle - via FidoNet node 1:110/300
UUCP: uunet!dayvb!afitamy!Jim.Priestle
ARPA: Jim.Priestle@afitamy.fidonet.org
-------------------------------------------------
>>>> The // Air Force Institute of Technology
// Amiga Users BBS/UFGateway
\ // Dayton Ohio (513)-252-7681
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