joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) (04/22/87)
In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > > The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. > ..Bob No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would be set at the factory and unchangeable. Joel Swank Tektronix, Redmond, Oregon
perry@sfsup.UUCP (04/23/87)
In article <1107@tekred.TEK.COM>, joels@tekred.UUCP writes: > In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > > > > The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. > > ..Bob > > No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board > must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You > still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would > be set at the factory and unchangeable. Excuse me Joel, but go read the docs. The point of Autoconfig is not to have jumpers or switches to assign addresses. The insider does NOT autoconfig it is simply automatically recognized by sheer luck at the exec checks C00000 when constructing the memory lists. Automatically recognized is definately NOT autoconfig. Autoconfig is a Zorro Bus Specification term which defines bus map allocation logic which allows a board and the Amiga to NEGOTIATE a base address of the board. Perry S. Kivolowitz ASDG Incorporated (201) 540 - 9670
fdi@arnav.UUCP (Flight Dynamics) (04/24/87)
In article <1107@tekred.TEK.COM>, joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) writes: > In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: > > > > The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. > > ..Bob > > No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board > must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You > still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would > be set at the factory and unchangeable. > > Joel Swank > Tektronix, Redmond, Oregon I was under the impression that part of the boot sequence was for the Amiga to check the bus for any peripherals, find out how much memory space needed by each, and then assign a memory range for each. If this is the way it works then DIP switches would not be needed (or even useful) for address space selection. What they might be used for, however, is to define how much memory space is needed for the specific configuration of that board. In other words, if the board was expandable, say from 1 Meg to 2 Meg, the DIP switches could be used to program how the board responded to the power up sequence. Since I'm not familiar with the product being discussed I can't say whether this is what the switches are in fact used for, it just seems like a reasonable use. Gary Albert Flight Dynamics, Inc ...!arnav!fdi
hah@isum.intel.com (Hans Hansen) (04/24/87)
In article <1107@tekred.TEK.COM> joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) writes: >In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >> >> The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. >> ..Bob > >No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board >must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You >still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would >be set at the factory and unchangeable. > >Joel Swank What really happens is the EXEC during boot poles the AUTO-CONFIG devices sequentialy and each in turn responds with type of board, memory, SCSI, etc., and if there is any RAM the physical size of the RAM. The EXEC then sends the board the starting address of the RAM which is latched into a register and used with a comparator to determine if the board has been accessed. If a board has something like a SCSI port there are decodes in the AUTO- CONFIG sequence to allow for the booting of the device handler. Also there is a continuation bit that allows more than one type of device or devices and memory to be on the same board; each in turn will have its own base address register and compatitor. Hans
jmpiazza@sunybcs.UUCP (Joseph M. Piazza) (04/25/87)
In article <1357@sfsup.UUCP> perry@sfsup.UUCP writes: >In article <1107@tekred.TEK.COM>, joels@tekred.UUCP writes: >> In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >> > >> > The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. >> > ..Bob >> >> No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board >> must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You >> still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would >> be set at the factory and unchangeable. > >Excuse me Joel, but go read the docs. I don't have the docs ... (but I do have the Insider; I'll post my experience in a moment.) >The point of Autoconfig is not to >have jumpers or switches to assign addresses. The insider does NOT autoconfig >it is simply automatically recognized by sheer luck at the exec checks C00000 >when constructing the memory lists. Sheer luck? ... could you elaborate? >Automatically recognized is definately NOT autoconfig. But there's another process of "autorecog"? >Autoconfig is a Zorro Bus Specification term which defines bus map allocation >logic which allows a board and the Amiga to NEGOTIATE a base address of the >board. Are you sure that it doesn't autoconfig? Or is it that the autoconfig has nothing to do with the dip switch? When reading the Insider doc I was under the impression that the dip switches settings are necessary for 1.1 Kickstart and Addmem. Upon closer examination it doesn't specify one way or the other. One other question: will I be able to use your 2001 expansion box with the Insider? I hope I can. Thanks for any light you can shed on this subject. Flip side, joe piazza --- Cogito ergo equus sum. CS Dept. SUNY at Buffalo 14260 (716) 636-3191, 3180 UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!jmpiazza CS: jmpiazza@buffalo-cs BI: jmpiazza@sunybcs GE: jmpiazza
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (04/25/87)
In article <1357@sfsup.UUCP> perry@sfsup.UUCP writes: > >Excuse me Joel, but go read the docs. The point of Autoconfig is not to >have jumpers or switches to assign addresses. The insider does NOT autoconfig >it is simply automatically recognized by sheer luck at the exec checks C00000 ^^^^^^^^^^ BS Alert - sheer luck =? careful planning... >when constructing the memory lists. > >Automatically recognized is definately NOT autoconfig. > >Autoconfig is a Zorro Bus Specification term which defines bus map allocation >logic which allows a board and the Amiga to NEGOTIATE a base address of the >board. > >Perry S. Kivolowitz >ASDG Incorporated (201) 540-9670 Perry, calm down! Kickstart 1.2 goes to a lot of work to find memory in several places. It looks at 000000-01FFFF and calls this chip memory... It looks at C00000-D7FFFF and calls this fast memory... It performs an automatic configuration ritual and depending on the the results obtained from each board (nominally PIC) may allocate the board a spot in the memory map and may add that spot to the memory list. ALL OF THIS IS AUTOMATIC! If a memory board does not map into one of these address ranges, does not respond to the auto-config protocol or does not otherwise behave as would be expected then you have to execute some kind of "addmem" program to fix up the memory lists. To add memory at the C00000-D8FFFF range, normally occupied by images of the custom chip register set, requires the use of the OVR line, which due to timing restrictions, is not supported for this purpose. Thus, this address range is normally restricted to expansion internal to the machine. Since the auto-config "daisy-chain" starts at the expansion connector, it is not possible* to have an internal expansion take part in the normal auto-config protocol without cutting a trace or two. (* possible, but too complicated to be worth the effort) CAN WE AVOID SILLY QUIBBLES ABOUT TERMINOLOGY? There are several ways to expand your Amiga. The "insider" type has the lowest potential cost, and the greatest risk (repeat: void your warranty). Pass-thru devices are safer, but sometimes fail to work together. Fully buffered expansion racks are the ideal and most expensive solution. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (04/27/87)
in article <1107@tekred.TEK.COM>, joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) says: > > In article <1203@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu>, page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >> >> The whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need DIP switches. >> ..Bob > > No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. The board > must know where it resides and tell dos where that is at boot time. You > still need switches to tell the board where it goes. Otherwise it would > be set at the factory and unchangeable. > > Joel Swank > Tektronix, Redmond, Oregon No, no, no, no, no. Bob IS CORRECT. The whole point of Autoconfig is that you don't need configuration switches of any kind. During the autoconfiguration phase of the system startup, the Amiga attempts to read memory mapped starting at $E80000. If any autoconfig boards exist, they'll have PALs that are mapped as memory in this area. When such an add-on board detects its input line called /CONFIGIN is asserted, it will start responding to the $E80000-$E8FFFF range. The data the Amiga reads here determines the amount of normal address or I/O memory the board needs, and if that address range should be added to the pool of free memory. If the board requires memory, the Amiga finds the next chunk of the expansion memory range that can accomodate that amount of memory, and then tells the board that it's located there. The board is now "configured", and it then asserts its /CONFIGOUT line, which is passed as the /CONFIGIN line to the next board. The process repeats itself until the Amiga finds no more boards that'll respond to the $E80000 address. What confuses some people are the memory ranges starting at $000000 and at $C00000. The Amiga's operating system (1.2 OS) will automatically look for RAM beginning at $000000 (and continuing on for up to 2 megs) and it will link any memory found there into the ChipMem list. Similarly, it will look for RAM beginning at $C00000 (and continuing on up for about 1.75 megs) and it will link any memory found there into the FastMem list. This is done before the autoconfiguration process, and memory found this way is certainly automatically recognized memory, but not autoconfig memory in the true sense of the word as applied to Amiga systems. I'm sure some 3rd party add-on boards are using the $C00000 area as a cheap way of adding memory, and while it can be done, the way this memory can be added by a 3rd party company is very critical, and can cause some problems depending on how they do it. The extra RAM space in the $000000 section is reserved for custom chips with a larger address space, the extra RAM space is intended for Amiga systems that support more than 512K of RAM on the motherboard, but only support 512K of chip memory. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh "The A2000 Guy" BIX : hazy "These are the days of miracle and wonder" -P. Simon
joels@tekred.TEK.COM (Joel Swank) (04/28/87)
>> No, the whole point of autoconfig is that you don't need addmem. > Excuse me Joel, but go read the docs. Sorry, I guess I should know better than to repeat what I hear at a user group meeting. > Perry S. Kivolowitz Joel Swank Tektronix, Redmond, Oegon
ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) (02/16/90)
In article <9696@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > [a whole lotta other stuff, and:] >Autoconfig memory is memory that supports the Amiga AUTOCONFIG(TM) protocols >and is automatically recognized and added by the Amiga's expansion.library. Well, I just tossed this in because I thought of it when you said this... The screen of one of the new Tandy laptop computers, in the middle of the screen, there's a box labelled "AUTOCONFIG". This computer is running DeskMate (TM; surely that's a Tandy trademark). The computer is pictured on the back cover of the 1990 catalog. So, go get 'em! Sue 'em blind! :-)