lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (02/09/90)
In <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com>, owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes: >Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these >roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, >then why the hell did the make us buy them? > >I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was >really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed >like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. I don't think there's much question about who the real pirates are. The Amax folks, if they had supplied their package with the ROM contents on disk, or provided a way to easily put them on disk, would have been in court faster than you could say 'Wozniak', and without much chance of winning the battle with Apple. Supplying the hardware, and forcing the legitimate owners to purchase Apple ROMs is the only way they can keep Apple from gettiung upset (Well, Apple might even be upset, but there isn't much they can do about it, given the present package). -larry -- Gallium Aresnide is the technology of the future; always has been, always will be. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) (02/09/90)
I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and the thing needs no hardware attachments. All of the ROM's are supposively supposed to be 'simulated'. I'll post the exact details when I read the article again. -Steve M. Suhy
owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) (02/09/90)
In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes... > > I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone >has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and >the thing needs no hardware attachments. All of the ROM's are supposively >supposed to be 'simulated'. I'll post the exact details when I read the >article again. > >-Steve M. Suhy Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, then why the hell did the make us buy them? I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. Steve ******************************************************************************* Steve Owen \ "Respond, Vibrate, Feedback / owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Jan-Mar) DEC \ Resonate."-Neil Peart / or Maynard, MA \ / sowen@lynx.northeastern.edu (May-Jul) ******************************************************************************* Bootleg collectors(U2,CuRE,REM,etc),send me mail! All normal disclaimers apply. *******************************************************************************
portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) (02/09/90)
>>>>> On 9 Feb 90 13:02:49 GMT, owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) said: steve> In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes... > > I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone >has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and >the thing needs no hardware attachments. All of the ROM's are supposively >supposed to be 'simulated'. I'll post the exact details when I read the >article again. steve> I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was steve> really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed steve> like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. ReadySoft, the makers of AMAX, cannot legally provide you a copy of the Apple ROM in any form. If they did, Apple would have them shut down faster than you can say "pull-down menu". Apple owns the copyrights to the code in their ROMs and protects it viciously. Because the pirates who cracked AMAX are doing something illegal in the first place, providing an illegal copy of the Apple ROMS isn't an issue for them. --M -- __ Michael Portuesi Silicon Graphics Computer Systems \/ portuesi@sgi.com Entry Systems Division -- Engineering
jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Jules Cisek) (02/10/90)
In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com>, owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes: > [...] It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these > roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, > then why the hell did the make us buy them? Maybe they simply didn't know how to do it! Developers are always finding new ways to make the computer fly, but you can't expect them to do it right at the start. Take the Atari 2600 machine. Remember the first programs for it, and then what Activision did with the interrupts and the flip-memory cartridges? > I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was > really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed > like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. I'm sure it was not a fairly easy thing to do for the hackers. I have a feeling, that a hack is all it is. You may even lose some of the functionality or compatability of AMAX. -- |\ | // Julius A. Cisek jac423 | /| | | \X/ ->crunch<- SUNYA, NY USA @leah.albany.edu | | O | IB...M I do think it's good... | O
watters@penguin.cis.ohio-state.edu (david r watters) (02/10/90)
steve> why would they make us buy the hardware... It is extremely bad to copy apple stuff, though putting the roms on floppy would have been easy for ReadySoft, it would have been easily the biggest mistake of the decade. This is mainly do to apple's "copy, but don't be coppied!" policy on buisiness. I own Amax, and I feel that the craked version adds an important step, It lets you avoid buying the roms from apple and lets you use different roms. It also lets use amax with or without the hardware, so if you agree that the box was poorly designed and it doesn't fit behind your computer, you don't need it. I don't use this version, and I am not affiliated with Apple, or ReadySoft, though I am waiting for Dragon's Lair II.
lawdm@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dan Lawrence) (02/10/90)
In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com>, owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes: > [...] It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these > roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, > then why the hell did the make us buy them? > I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was > really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed > like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. I find it hard to believe these people don't understand what is at issue here. Picture this, suppose they had made an emulator with no hardware and with the Apple ROM images on disk. They sell it for a while, Apple gears up their legal staff and sues the Amax makers for every penny they got. The AMAX people are not trying to screw you by making you buy uneeded hardware, this was the only legitimate way they could make a product without infringing on Apple's copyrights. The people to complain about here is actually Apple itself for its closed OS and relecutance to allow clone manifacturing. (And they do suffer for this, anyone look at IBM stock lately?) But certainly, the folks making the AMAX should not be flamed for trying to keep from being sued. Daniel Lawrence voice: (317) 742-5153 arpa: dan@midas.mgmt.purdue.edu The Programmer's Room Fido: 1:201/10 - (317) 742-5533 PS: I am in NO way connected with any company mentioned above
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/10/90)
The reason that you have to buy the ROM's and hardware is that it is 100% illegal for ReadySoft to sell you the Apple ROM's on disk. What they are currently doing is "pseudo-legal", apparently. As they haven't been sued yet I imagine it's legal enough. The "hardware" does two things: it gives you a place to put the ROMs so they can be read by AMax. Secondly it allows you to a Macintosh drive. This is impossible without the hardware, so these people with the cracked version have to rely on others to transfer software for them. This version is readily available. I feel that the price is quite low for the two products and that if you can afford it piracy is "inappropriate". Of course, I don't want to get into an argument about piracy either, but I was surprised at people who were upset at readysoft for this. -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Compu$erve : 70137,3271 Anyone giving away Amigas or Sharp Scanners???
stevem@sauron.Columbia.NCR.COM (Steve McClure) (02/10/90)
In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com> owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes: > >In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes... >> >> I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone >>has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and > >Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these >roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, >then why the hell did the make us buy them? You have to buy the ROM's to make the whole thing legal. Otherwise, the AMAX producers would be pirates instead of the people who put the firmware on disk. Steve ----- stevem@Columbia.NCR.COM The above are my opinions, which NCR doesn't really care about anyway! CAUSER's Amiga BBS! | 803-796-3127 | 8pm-8am 8n1 | 300/1200/2400
WFF101@psuvm.psu.edu (02/10/90)
In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com>, owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) says: > >Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these >roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, >then why the hell did the make us buy them? > >I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was >really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed >like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. > >Steve > I read in a magazine article (Amiga Resource, I believe) that the sole reason behind requiring _MACINTOSH_ ROMS was to avoid lawsuits from Mac. Frank
grx1042@uoft02.utoledo.edu (02/10/90)
> Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these > roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, > then why the hell did the make us buy them? > > I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was > really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed > like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. Steve, You must understand that Apple has copyrights on its ROMs. ReadySoft cannot legally copy Apple's ROMs onto disk - you must buy them from Apple, or from someone who has bought them from Apple. The pirates obviously didn't care about this, so they could do it. Don't blame ReadySoft for the situation though. PS: We are both named Steve and like Rush. Kinda scary, ain't it?
cmcmanis@stpeter.Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/10/90)
[note about how the AMAX people could have distributed ROM images instead deleted.] In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com> (Steve Owen) writes: >Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these >roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, >then why the hell did the make us buy them? Steve, going off half cocked like this is bad for your sinuses. Think about what you just said for a moment. Paraphrased (to make the problem more obvious) you said "If AMAX could duplicate the Apple ROMs why did they make us buy them?" And the answer is quite simple, if they duplicated them then Apple could sue them and put them out of business for copyright infringement. They did this with Franklin Computer's use of the Apple II ROMs. The only legal way to get Mac ROMs is to buy them from Apple (or to buy them from someone who bought them from Apple etc). THAT is why they make you buy them. Understand ? --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@Eng.Sun.COM These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "If it didn't have bones in it, it wouldn't be crunchy now would it?!"
bscott@pikes.Colorado.EDU (Ben M Scott) (02/10/90)
It was bound to happen sooner or later; it's actually not that hard to copy ROMS to a software file and then write patch software for something like A-Max. In fact, I know a few people around here who are using the hacked version (one who has both the original and the bootleg version, in fact) and it apparently works just fine. I wonder how Readysoft is going to implement HD support? According to a developer friend of mine who just happens to have co-written B.A.D., they wiped out the SCSI handler in the Mac ROMs in order to make room for miscellaneous patches in system routines. To put back stuff like this and sound support (at LEAST make it so it doesn't actually CRASH when an application tries to use sound) they're going to have to find more and more space... . <<<<Infinite K>>>>
dcr3567@ultb.isc.rit.edu (D.C. Richardson) (02/11/90)
In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu> jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes: > > I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone >has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and >the thing needs no hardware attachments. All of the ROM's are supposively >supposed to be 'simulated'. I'll post the exact details when I read the >article again. > >-Steve M. Suhy Yes, I've heard of such a rumor. It's NOT true that the program is cracked (cracking means that copy protection was removed.. there IS no copy protection on A-MAX) The only thing that has happened, is there is a 2k assembly lang program that will work in conjunction with A-Max to READ the ROMs that you have in the hardware, then save them to a file (best on the hard disk), and allow you to read them from the hard drive (3 seconds) from then on, instead of the drive port (1-2 minutes). Take what you want from there, that's all it is. Daniel C. Richardson Rochester Institute of Technology Mechanical Engineering Dept. :w
tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) (02/11/90)
>Item: 4744 by *Masked* at euclid.enet.dec.com >Author: [Steve Owen] > Subj: Re: Rumors...AMAX (regarding the AMAX "crack") >I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was >really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed >like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. It was made pretty clear that th reason that the "legal" amax folks couldnt do it the way the pirates did was mainly a legality. Apple will NOT let them copy the roms onto a floopy like the pirate did , even making a "compatible" fake rom would have left them open to some serious legal action at a time when Apple was sue-happy. **************************************************************************** Everything I say is Copr. 1990, except the stuff I stole from someone else and the stuff I don't want responsibility for. Kenneth J. Jamieson: Xanadu Enterprises Inc. "Professional Amiga Software" UUCP: tron1@tronsbox.UUCP BEST PATH ---> uunet!tronsbox!tron1 Sysop, Romantic Encounters BBS - (201)759-8450 / (201)759-8568 ****************************************************************************
vin@meccsd.MECC.MN.ORG (Vincent J. Erickson) (02/12/90)
>In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes... > >Yea, It really makes you wonder who the real pirates are, huh? If these >roms don't need to be bought, but just loaded into the amiga via software, >then why the hell did the make us buy them? > The reason you "have" to buy the roms is that its ILLEGAL to copy Apple roms to disk. That's called piracy. Its a pain, but the harware solution was very clever of them, I thought. If piracy doesn't bother you, you apparantly don't need to buy the hardware, but hey, its cheap enough; besides, I don't know that you could attach a Macintosh drive to the Amiga directly anyways, so you'd be limited to what you could read/ write with the Amiga drives (I think).
dfrancis@dsoft.UUCP (Dennis Heffernan) (02/13/90)
For what it's worth, the cracked version doesn't run on a 68030 -equipped system. I've heard that the real version will, though. (Of course, if anyone out there KNOWS it won't, let me know FAST! I'm probably going to buy the durn thing...) I know what these pirates have done is pretty terrible, but I have a hard time finding it in my heart to feel sorry for Apple... -- --dfh ...uunet!tronsbox!dsoft!dfrancis "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein
lee@sed170.HAC.COM (John Lee) (02/16/90)
In article <8244@shlump.nac.dec.com> owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes: >In article <22212@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, jcfst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (John C. Fossum) writes... >> I read in a recent article in "Amazing Computing" that someone >>has actually cracked the AMAX software, is posting it on BBS's, and >>the thing needs no hardware attachments. All of the ROM's are supposively >>supposed to be 'simulated'. I'll post the exact details when I read the >>article again. >>-Steve M. Suhy [...] >I heard about this 'crack' a while ago (shortly after Amax emerged) and was >really furious that they would make us buy the hardware when it really seemed >like a fairly easy thing to do for the makers of Amax. > >Steve All MacIntosh ROMS and their contents are copyrighted by Apple, and ReadySoft nor anyone else have been/will be able to convince Apple to license the rights to distribute a copy of the ROMS in any form whatsoever. That is why you must purchase genuine Apple ROMS and the need for the hardware adapter. From what I've heard, the "crack" is an *illegal* copy of the ROMS, not a legal re-engineered version like the Phoenix BIOS for IBM clones. --John Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raining CATS and DOGS? Join the RATS: Remote Amiga Teleconferencing System +--------+ John Lee | HUGHES | +--------+ ARPAnet: jhlee@hac2arpa.hac.com Hughes Aircraft Company The above opinions are those of the user and not of those of this machine.
ja26612@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (02/20/90)
It is true, AMAX is available illegally in 100% software form. It has been available for about six months now. It works exactly the same as its hardware counterpart, except that the 128K of ROM is used by RAM.
ja26612@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (02/20/90)
It is also wrong that AMAX (pirated software version) will not work on a 68030. It works perfectly on a 68030. Mathematica runs on it with no flaws at all, including even the networking feature at 19.2K baud. .
david_r_watters@penguin.cis.ohio-state.edu (02/21/90)
In article <46200026@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ja26612@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >It is true, AMAX is available illegally in 100% software form. It has been >available for about six months now. It works exactly the same as its hardware >counterpart, except that the 128K of ROM is used by RAM. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The ROMS are uploaded into ram on the legit version also. I am not flamming, but can we stop posting about the illegal version of Amax. Sumation: They make you buy the roms for legal reaons, and it is still illegal to spread software. So before more people accedentaly reveal their true colors and which version they use, end this subject and stop piracy. At this rate somebody is going to ask where he can ftp this version. :-)
<LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> (02/21/90)
> It work exactly the same as its hardware counterpart, except that the 128K of > ROM is used by RAM. It = illegal version - 100% software version of Amax I would assume that even the real hardware version of Amax would load the Mac ROM into ram at one point. It is just a real pain to access the ROM via some slow IO chips every time. I think all the illegal hack did was to replace the part of the code that reads from the floppy interface to one that reads from a disk file. On the side of Mac drive does anyone know how to make a DSDD 720K Sony drive into a Mac drive. At $50 a piece for a Sony drive vs $199 for a clone Mac drive, it might be worth while to look into such a project. The amount of money saved would almost covers the cost of the Amax. Can anyone one point me the direction to find the specs for the Mac drive ? K. C. Lee (I am no way connected with anyone nor any organization. My view (if exists at all) must be pure coincident and I am the only one responsible.)
krag@cup.portal.com (Kevin Ray Grotjohn) (02/22/90)
I really didn't want to get on this one. I have sold my AMAX for other reasons and did not retain a copy of anything, unless I run disksalve. Would it have been illegal for ReadySoft to check for the existence of the rom's after loading them once to the harddrive, and to make the check every time it is run to make sure somebody isn't passing around their cartridge. I'm suprised they didn't put a dongle ID in their cartridge to avoid this pirated ROM to HD problem. I never did care for the 6" cartridge but I don't believe in piracy of someone else's effort's even if it is apples. Prior to this HD hack I had heard of people EPromming apples roms to place in the cartridge. They should check for that as well by asserting the write lines of the EPROM to prevent use. With this crap going on, what incentive do they have to make AMAX II.