okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay, S J) (02/23/90)
>From: admiral%m-5.sun.com%mwunix@mwvm.mitre.org (admiral at m-5.sun.com@MWUNIX) [CBM official reply, "don't believe everything you read, etc.] >Better get a letter of to Amiga World also. In the lastest issue they again >critize the Unix OS. CBM is working on a version of SVR4 (true?) which >could be the Amigas last best hope for cracking the corporate and federal >desktop. Meanwhile a major Amiga publication has twice now (that I've seen) >done and axe job on Unix with half-truths and hearsay. I've already fired off a salvo of well-deserved flames in their direction. I am no longer disappointed and peeved at AmigaWhirled, but actually quite angry and feel betrayed. They are knocking the best hope for survival the Amiga has, and they are doing their best to keep the Amiga community a bunch of pimple-faced, game playing, A500 owners.(No flames please from A500 owners, this isn't directed at you or your choice of a machine. I know many a starving college student who could only afford a 500, despite their desire for a larger machine). Their characterization of UNIX as nothing more than another OS that multi-tasks is unbelievably short-sighted. >You don't have to like Unix but ANY hardware/software package than can >help CBM sell more Amigas should be welcomed. Again, Amiga World shows >all the intelligence of a blank eprom. Too true...too true, and I know exactly what Doug Blarney is going to say back too "But the average Amiga user doesn't care about UNIX". Hey!, I do!!...and I've poured about $5000 into your advertisers pockets, so I'd say that makes me worth a little more than being called "gangly" and "overrated". There are a lot of home and casual users out there, but there are also a lot of us who spend more than $30 on a game every few months. Don't abandon the Joe average, but don't scare away the big fish either, which is exactly what they're doing when they talk like that. Here are my ultimate plans for my 2000...tell me if you think something like this deserves a little more attention or respect considering the cost each item and necessary software will cost. 1. 68030/68882 accelerator w/RAM expansion 2. SCSI streaming tape drive 3. AMIX (or whatever incarnation CBM's SVR4 comes out as) 4. Audio & Video digitizers 5. Genlock 6. High speed (HST or Telebit) modem. 7. assorted things like a multi-serial board, external HD, etc. ------------- Stephen Okay OKAY@TAFS.MITRE.ORG Technical Aide, The MITRE Corporation "Never let reality stand in the way of a good media campaign" Disclaimer:Yes, you're right, these are *MY* opinions.
arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) (02/23/90)
In article <11888@baldrick.udel.EDU> okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay, S J) writes: > >>From: admiral%m-5.sun.com%mwunix@mwvm.mitre.org (admiral at m-5.sun.com@MWUNIX) >[CBM official reply, "don't believe everything you read, etc.] >>Better get a letter of to Amiga World also. In the lastest issue they again >>critize the Unix OS. ... Your points are well taken, but does it really matter what Amigaworld says on this subject? I was sort of annoyed at their - to be polite - oversimplifications about Unix, but I think anyone who wants Unix (businesses included) will not pay any attention to them. Those who might be scared off by Unix are placated. It is up to CBM to do something about getting Unix going in Amiga's; then Amigaworld will have to respond. In terms of sales, you are also correct. In my case, I decided to buy a 68030 board, but also decided not to buy one until a Unix was available - to insure compatibility with anything I might buy: CBM, GVP, or whatever. Pat Palmer (email: reply or ppalmer@oddjob.uchicago.edu) (Weird, I sound like a defender of Amigaworld. It is unlikely to happen again)
ken@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) (02/23/90)
[Unix is a trademark of AT&T] For reference, I am a developer support person (CATS) for Amiga DOS and Amiga Unix. In article <11888@baldrick.udel.EDU> okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay, S J) writes: > >They are knocking the best hope for survival the Amiga has, The Amiga will survive quite well without Unix, thank you. The Unix market will provide additional sales, but we are not dependent on it. Both Unix and Amiga systems have their places. >Their characterization of UNIX as nothing more than another OS that >multi-tasks is unbelievably short-sighted. What does Unix provide you that the Amiga does not? Unix is just another product, it is not the cure-all that many people make it out to be. If there is some feature missing from the Amiga that you cannot live without, let us know! >too "But the average Amiga user doesn't care about UNIX". Hey!, I do!!...and Do you forsee a Unix box in every home? Or perhaps on every desk in the corporate world? Sounds to me like you have never had to administer a Unix system, although you clearly use Unix at school. Most casual users would not be able to set up a Unix system, much less properly shut it down. Then you get in to re-configuring the kernel... >Here are my ultimate plans for my 2000...tell me if you think something like > [lots of stuff, including] >3. AMIX (or whatever incarnation CBM's SVR4 comes out as) Does this mean that you are not going to use AmigaDOS at all? I hope that you can find software to do all of the video and graphics work. Also remember that Unix is not real-time, so the animations may not work so well... Unix has it's place, but it does not cure all problems. AmigaDOS will still be there long after Commodore releases Unix. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Farinsky -- CATS Commodore Business Machines PHONE 215-431-9421 UUCP ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!ken --------------------------------------------------------------
admiral@m-5.Sun.COM (Michael Limprecht SUN Microsystems Mt. View Ca.) (02/24/90)
In article <7778@tank.uchicago.edu>, arxt@tank.uchicago.edu (patrick palmer) writes: > In article <11888@baldrick.udel.EDU> okay@tafs.mitre.org (Okay, S J) writes: > > > >>From: admiral%m-5.sun.com%mwunix@mwvm.mitre.org (admiral at m-5.sun.com@MWUNIX) > >[CBM official reply, "don't believe everything you read, etc.] > >>Better get a letter of to Amiga World also. In the lastest issue they again > >>critize the Unix OS. ... > > Your points are well taken, but does it really matter what Amigaworld says > on this subject? I was sort of annoyed at their - to be polite - > oversimplifications about Unix, but I think anyone who wants Unix (businesses > included) will not pay any attention to them. Those who might be scared off > by Unix are placated. It is up to CBM to do something about getting Unix going > in Amiga's; then Amigaworld will have to respond. > > In terms of sales, you are also correct. In my case, I decided to buy a > 68030 board, but also decided not to buy one until a Unix was available - > to insure compatibility with anything I might buy: CBM, GVP, or whatever. > I think it does. Remember, there's a great big AMIGA splashed on the front cover of the magazine and that carries over. CBM really needs to put up a united front on what the Amiga is all about and it looks like Unix is a part of that. Now they better let Amiga World know what's going on. It's bad enough when CBM isn't very adept at marketing but when the major publication for your machine poo-poo's an important project... Oh well. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I think there's a world market for about 5 computers." - Thomas J. Watson, Chairman of the Board, IBM (around 1948) ------------------------------------------------------------------- uucp: {anywhere}!sun!admiral -------------------------------------------------------------------
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (02/24/90)
In article <9796@cbmvax.commodore.com> ken@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) writes: >[Unix is a trademark of AT&T] > >What does Unix provide you that the Amiga does not? Do you have a death wish???!!! >If there is some feature missing >from the Amiga that you cannot live without, let us know! Okay, you do... How about these: Resource tracking Ability to kill errant tasks. Virtual Memory Shared data on hard disks User file protection Wide range of network abilities. High-end color video cards. And we won't even get into the lack of business software [little to do with Unix...] >Unix has it's place, but it does not cure all problems. AmigaDOS >will still be there long after Commodore releases Unix. Both very true. I am, in fact, no lover of Unix, but there is much still missing from my Amiga environment. >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Ken Farinsky -- CATS Commodore Business Machines >PHONE 215-431-9421 UUCP ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!ken >-------------------------------------------------------------- David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu "Think you can, think you can't -- either way it's true." Henry Ford
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) (02/28/90)
>> The Amiga will survive quite well without Unix, thank you. >> The Unix market will provide additional sales, but we are not >> dependent on it. Both Unix and Amiga systems have their places. Yup. The key point is Amiga Worlds characterization of Unix as "an OS that eats any resources that you throw at it." Seems to be pretty much true - at least for modern Eunices. Our standard workstation here has 16Meg of memory (well, a lot have 8, but that's "not enough") and a 300Meg disk on a 14Mips machine. The 300 meg disk is for system software and swapping; the users files are on a disk server elsewhere. Of course, we do run a rich environment in many ways. A "minimal" Amiga system with an HD would be 2-3 meg of memory (2.5 was just fine when I had that amount), and 20-30 meg hard disk (I use a 20Meg disk about like that 300Meg "system disk" on our workstations). What kind of Unix is CBM going to package in that space? Alternatively, what is CBM going to sell as a "minimal" Unix system? And how many of the minimal AmigaDOS machines I described above will you be able to buy for that price? >> What does Unix provide you that the Amiga does not? And is it worth the price you have to pay to get Unix? To most people, the answer is going to be either "nothing" or "no". To a few, it'll be worthwhile. But then you have to compete in the Unix market, unless there's some reason to want an Amiga workstation instead of someone elses. From what I can tell, an Amiga as a Unix workstation isn't anything to shout about from a hardware point of view. Possibly it'll be priced such that it makes sense, but who can tell without pricing information. >> Do you forsee a Unix box in every home? Or perhaps on every desk in >> the corporate world? If you do, I suggest look at how AUX is doing, and how the PC-based Unix systems are doing. The answer is "not very well", sales being mostly limited to Universities that like the idea of running Mac & Unix software on the same box, and to technogeeks who _really_ want a Unix box in their house. That total just isn't a very big market, not compared to what you can put in office & homes if you don't try and sell enough hardware to run Unix. It's big enough to be worth doing, but it won't keep the machine alive. Don't get me wrong - I think having Unix available is a wonderfull thing. I also think that, like the Mac & PC world, the price of running Unix will keep almost everyone from doing so. <mike -- Teddies good friend has his two o'clock feast Mike Meyer And he's making Teddies ex girl friend come mwm@berkeley.edu They mistook Teddies good trust ucbvax!mwm Just for proof that Teddy was dumb. mwm@ucbjade.BITNET
ken@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) (02/28/90)
In article <MWM.90Feb27110345@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) writes: > >A "minimal" Amiga system with an HD would be 2-3 meg of memory (2.5 >was just fine when I had that amount), and 20-30 meg hard disk (I use >a 20Meg disk about like that 300Meg "system disk" on our >workstations). What kind of Unix is CBM going to package in that >space? Alternatively, what is CBM going to sell as a "minimal" Unix >system? And how many of the minimal AmigaDOS machines I described >above will you be able to buy for that price? The current definition of a "minimal" amiga unix system is (roughly): an '030 based amiga w/ 5Mb ram, 105Mb disk, and streaming tape. Pricing and actual release configurations not available at this time. [Unix is a trademark of AT&T, but you knew that (didn't you.)] -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Farinsky -- CATS Commodore Business Machines PHONE 215-431-9421 UUCP ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!ken --------------------------------------------------------------
ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) (03/01/90)
In article <MWM.90Feb27110345@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com writes: >What kind of Unix is CBM going to package in that >space? Alternatively, what is CBM going to sell as a "minimal" Unix >system? And how many of the minimal AmigaDOS machines I described >above will you be able to buy for that price? The memory constraint is a problem. Unix is a pig, it is just a fact, but as for disk space. We have put an entire release 4 system including X in something close to 60meg. We are hoping to shrink that in many ways (remove networking if you don't use it, X is history if you wish). >Don't get me wrong - I think having Unix available is a wonderfull >thing. I also think that, like the Mac & PC world, the price of >running Unix will keep almost everyone from doing so. This is a good point. How much is do you think a low end Unix workstation should go for to be in the typical user's price range? >Teddies good friend has his two o'clock feast Mike Meyer >And he's making Teddies ex girl friend come mwm@berkeley.edu >They mistook Teddies good trust ucbvax!mwm >Just for proof that Teddy was dumb. mwm@ucbjade.BITNET The spiders melt her thighs, It does not phase her; She cleans her skin with a Crypton Laser! Pax, Keith -- ag@amix.commodore.com Keith Gabryelski ...!cbmvax!amix!ag
ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) (03/01/90)
In article <9883@cbmvax.commodore.com> ken@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) writes: >In article <MWM.90Feb27110345@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike Meyer) writes: >> >>A "minimal" Amiga system with an HD would be 2-3 meg of memory (2.5 >>was just fine when I had that amount), and 20-30 meg hard disk (I use >>a 20Meg disk about like that 300Meg "system disk" on our >>workstations). What kind of Unix is CBM going to package in that >>space? Alternatively, what is CBM going to sell as a "minimal" Unix >>system? And how many of the minimal AmigaDOS machines I described >>above will you be able to buy for that price? > >The current definition of a "minimal" amiga unix system is (roughly): >an '030 based amiga w/ 5Mb ram, 105Mb disk, and streaming tape. >Pricing and actual release configurations not available at this time. This is correct for an alpha version that went out in house. This will hopefully not be the case in the near future. Indeed, it has gone down significantly in the last two weeks! Pax, Keith -- ag@amix.commodore.com Keith Gabryelski ...!cbmvax!amix!ag
jet@flatline.UUCP (It's "Mr. Boyo" to you Dylan) (03/07/90)
In article <296@amix.commodore.com> ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) writes: >In article <MWM.90Feb27110345@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com writes: >>What kind of Unix is CBM going to package in that >>space? >The memory constraint is a problem. Unix is a pig, it is just a fact, >but as for disk space. We have put an entire release 4 system >including X in something close to 60meg. My 3b1 has Unix in about 30Mb, that's including 3Mb for swap space. I have 3.5Mb of RAM. >This is a good point. How much is do you think a low end Unix >workstation should go for to be in the typical user's price range? You can get a new 3b1 for about $1500, with a 90day warranty. Too bad they've been discontinued. -- Skate UNIX. J. Eric Townsend -- uunet!sugar!flatline!jet -- jet@flatline.lonestar.org EastEnders mailing list -- eastender@flatline.lonestar.org